Holocaust education from THE NIZKOR PROJECT

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From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:55 EDT 2009
Article: 2011912 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:24:29 -0500, Topaz 
wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 03:17:45 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
> wrote:
>
>>In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 03:33:08 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>They weren't, nazi-boy. That's Goebbels' propaganda.
>>>
>>>
>>>Polish Atrocities
>>>Against the German Minority in Poland
>>>Edited and published by order of the Foreign Office,
>>>Volk und Reich Verlag Berlin, 2nd. revised ed., 1940, 311 pp.
>>>http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities.htm
>>>Volk und Reich Verlag logo
>>>
>>>GERMANS: ABUSED MINORITY!
>>>An odd concept you may have never heard of.  But it happened.
>>>Atrocity photos you'll never see on the History Channel.
>>
>>
>>Because it never happened.

It is crap like this from holocaustorians that first made me doubt the
holocaust™ stories, since if the holocaustians lie about stuff about
which I'm certain, then how can I trust the rest of their claims?

>
>Jewish control of the media
>Compiled by Jeffrey Blankfort
>12-6-4
> 
>
>MORTIMER ZUCKERMAN, owner of NY Daily News, US News & World Report and
>chair of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish American
>Organizations, one of the largest pro-Israel lobbying groups.
> 
>LESLIE MOONVES, president of CBS television, great-nephew of David
>Ben-Gurion, and co-chair with Norman Ornstein of the Advisory
>Committee on Public Interest Obligation of Digital TV Producers,
>appointed by Clinton.
> 
>JONATHAN MILLER, chair and CEO of AOL division of AOL-Time-Warner
> 
>NEIL SHAPIRO, president of NBC News
> 
>JEFF GASPIN, Executive Vice-President, Programming, NBC
> 
>DAVID WESTIN, president of ABC News
> 
>SUMNER REDSTONE, CEO of Viacom, "world's biggest media giant"
>(Economist, 11/23/2) owns Viacom cable, CBS and MTVs all over the
>world, Blockbuster video rentals and Black Entertainment TV.
> 
>MICHAEL EISNER, major owner of Walt Disney, Capitol Cities, ABC.
> 
>RUPERT MURDOCH, Owner Fox TV, New York Post, London Times, News of the
>World (Jewish mother)
> 
>MEL KARMAZIN, president of CBS
> 
>DON HEWITT, Exec. Director, 60 Minutes, CBS
> 
>JEFF FAGER, Exec. Director, 60 Minutes II. CBS
> 
>DAVID POLTRACK, Executive Vice-President, Research and Planning, CBS
> 
>SANDY KRUSHOW, Chair, Fox Entertainment
> 
>LLOYD BRAUN, Chair, ABC Entertainment
> 
>BARRY MEYER, chair, Warner Bros.
> 
>SHERRY LANSING. President of Paramount Communications and Chairman of
>Paramount Pictures' Motion Picture Group.
> 
>HARVEY WEINSTEIN, CEO. Miramax Films.
> 
>BRAD SIEGEL., President, Turner Entertainment.
> 
>PETER CHERNIN, second in-command at Rupert Murdoch's News. Corp.,
>owner of Fox TV
> 
>MARTY PERETZ, owner and publisher of the New Republic, which openly
>identifies itself as pro-Israel. Al Gore credits Marty with being his
>"mentor."
> 
>ARTHUR O. SULZBERGER, JR., publisher of the NY Times, the Boston Globe
>and other publications.
> 
>WILLIAM SAFIRE, syndicated columnist for the NYT.
> 
>TOM FRIEDMAN, syndicated columnist for the NYT.
> 
>CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, syndicated columnist for the Washington Post.
>Honored by Honest Reporting.com, website monitoring "anti-Israel
>media."
> 
>RICHARD COHEN, syndicated columnist for the Washington Post
> 
>JEFF JACOBY, syndicated columnist for the Boston Globe
> 
>NORMAN ORNSTEIN, American Enterprise Inst., regular columnist for USA
>Today, news analyst for CBS, and co-chair with Leslie Moonves of the
>Advisory Committee on Public Interest Obligation of Digital TV
>Producers, appointed by Clinton.
> 
>ARIE FLEISCHER, Dubya's press secretary.
> 
>STEPHEN EMERSON, every media outlet's first choice as an expert on
>domestic terrorism.
> 
>DAVID SCHNEIDERMAN, owner of the Village Voice and the New Times
>network of "alternative weeklies."
> 
>DENNIS LEIBOWITZ, head of Act II Partners, a media hedge fund
> 
>KENNETH POLLACK, for CIA analysts, director of Saban Center for Middle
>East Policy, writes op-eds in NY Times, New Yorker
> 
>BARRY DILLER, chair of USA Interactive, former owner of Universal
>Entertainment
> 
>KENNETH ROTH, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch
> 
>RICHARD LEIBNER, runs the N.S. Bienstock talent agency, which
>represents 600 news personalities such as Dan Rather, Dianne Sawyer
>and Bill O'Reilly.
> 
>TERRY SEMEL, CEO, Yahoo, former chair, Warner Bros.
> 
>MARK GOLIN, VP and Creative Director, AOL
> 
>WARREN LIEBERFORD, Pres., Warner Bros. Home Video Div. of AOL-
>TimeWarner
> 
>JEFFREY ZUCKER, President of NBC Entertainment
> 
>JACK MYERS, NBC, chief.NYT 5.14.2
> 
>SANDY GRUSHOW, chair of Fox Entertainment
> 
>GAIL BERMAN, president of Fox Entertainment
> 
>STEPHEN SPIELBERG, co-owner of Dreamworks
> 
>JEFFREY KATZENBERG, co-owner of Dreamworks
> 
>DAVID GEFFEN, co-owner of Dreamworks
> 
>LLYOD BRAUN, chair of ABC Entertainment
> 
>JORDAN LEVIN, president of Warner Bros. Entertainment
> 
>MAX MUTCHNICK, co-executive producer of NBC's "Good Morning Miami"
> 
>DAVID KOHAN, co-executive producer of NBC's "Good Morning Miami"
> 
>HOWARD STRINGER, chief of Sony Corp. of America
> 
>AMY PASCAL, chair of Columbia Pictures
> 
>JOEL KLEIN, chair and CEO of Bertelsmann's American operations
> 
>ROBERT SILLERMAN, founder of Clear Channel Communications
> 
>BRIAN GRADEN, president of MTV entertainment
> 
>IVAN SEIDENBERG, CEO of Verizon Communications
> 
>WOLF BLITZER, host of CNN's Late Edition
> 
>LARRY KING, host of Larry King Live
> 
>TED KOPPEL, host of ABC's Nightline
> 
>ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN Reporter
> 
>PAULA ZAHN, CNN Host
> 
>MIKE WALLACE, Host of CBS, 60 Minutes
> 
>BARBARA WALTERS, Host, ABC's 20-20
> 
>MICHAEL LEDEEN, editor of National Review
> 
>BRUCE NUSSBAUM, editorial page editor, Business Week
> 
>DONALD GRAHAM, Chair and CEO of Newsweek and Washington Post, son of
> 
>CATHERINE GRAHAM MEYER, former owner of the Washington Post
> 
>HOWARD FINEMAN, Chief Political Columnist, Newsweek
> 
>WILLIAM KRISTOL, Editor, Weekly Standard, Exec. Director
>Project for a New American Century (PNAC)
> 
>RON ROSENTHAL, Managing Editor, San Francisco Chronicle
> 
>PHIL BRONSTEIN, Executive Editor, San Francisco Chronicle,
> 
>RON OWENS, Talk Show Host, KGO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco)
> 
>JOHN ROTHMAN, Talk Show Host, KGO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco)
> 
>MICHAEL SAVAGE, Talk Show Host, KFSO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San
>Francisco) Syndicated in 100 markets
> 
>MICHAEL MEDVED, Talk Show Host, on 124 AM stations
> 
>DENNIS PRAGER, Talk Show Host, nationally syndicated from LA. Has
>Israeli flag on his home page.
> 
>BEN WATTENBERG, Moderator, PBS Think Tank.
> 
>ANDREW LACK, president of NBC
> 
>DANIEL MENAKER, Executive Director, Harper Collins
> 
>DAVID REZNIK, Editor, The New Yorker
> 
>NICHOLAS LEHMANN, writer, the New York
> 
>HENRICK HERTZBERG, Talk of the Town editor, The New Yorker
> 
>SAMUEL NEWHOUSE JR, and DONALD NEWHOUSE own Newhouse Publications,
>includes 26 newspapers in 22 cities; the Conde Nast magazine group,
>includes The New Yorker; Parade, the Sunday newspaper supplement;
>American City Business Journals, business newspapers published in more
>than 30 major cities in America; and interests in cable television
>programming and cable systems serving 1 million homes.
> 
>DONALD NEWHOUSE, chairman of the board of directors, Associated Press.
> 
>PETER R KANN, CEO, Wall Street Journal, Barron's
> 
>RALPH J. & BRIAN ROBERTS, Owners, Comcast-ATT Cable TV.
> 
>LAWRENCE KIRSHBAUM, CEO, AOL-Time Warner Book Group
>
>http://www.ihr.org/     www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/    
>
>http://www.natvan.com   http://www.nsm88.org
>
>http://heretical.com/    


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:55 EDT 2009
Article: 2011913 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:55:16 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:7k12v4hvv0a07p66r611kc36lcl956tl97@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:55:27 -0400, in
>> <4ll0v4dm8dsqi8alroam10t3f0t4s10hqf@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:11:09 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> >"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>> >news:fettu4d2sn73uf7436q1aqpsj53rj70157@4ax.com...
>>> >> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>> >>>news:ohstu4lg2uf0jncj1mc5j99dq4odaoumho@4ax.com...
>>> >>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in 
>>> >>>>>message
>>> >>>>>news:smvsu41m61tshng7d8qrltpjod8n1s0nui@4ax.com...
>>> >>>>>> In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:18:49 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:18:25 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>How do you explain Germany getting whipped by sub-humans?
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Compare the size of Germany to the size of the Jewish 
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>controlled
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>countries, the USA and the USSR.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>Now, why would such a SMART bunch of guys take on that many 
>>> >>>>>>>>>>Jews?
>>> >>>>>>>>>>Why,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>you'd have to be fucking crazy, wouldn't you?
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>No answer?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>Not so well known is the story of Roosevelt's enormous 
>>> >>>>>>>responsibility
>>> >>>>>>>for the outbreak of the Second World War itself. This essay 
>>> >>>>>>>focuses on
>>> >>>>>>>Roosevelt's secret campaign to provoke war in Europe prior to the
>>> >>>>>>>outbreak of hostilities in September 1939.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> When Germany attacked Poland. You have to wonder why they did
>>> >>>>>> something so stupid. Got any answers?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>Why was Poland sabre rattling and engaging in cross-border attacks
>>> >>>>>against
>>> >>>>>Germany, shadesofraud?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> They weren't, nazi-boy.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>You lie, shadesoffraud.
>>> >>
>>> >> Following a German-staged "Polish attack" on 31 August 1939, on
>>> >> September 1, German forces invaded Poland from the north, south, and
>>> >> west.
>>>
>>> >Go back a few months, shadesoffraud.
>>>
>>> The jerk is playing with the facts and injecting allied propaganda as
>>> history. Poland ordered general mobilization on August 25, and that
>>> counts as a declaration of war against Germany. That is all the
>>> justification required for an invasion.
>>
>> Thanks for admitting that Germany invaded Poland.  Poland ordered a
>> partial mobilization on August 25 because there were 3 million German
>> troops massed on their border.
>
>A challenge for you old feller. Let's see if you're honest.
>
>Do you, or do you not accept that Poland had been sabre rattling toward 
>Germany and involving themselves in cross-border skirmishes into Germany, 
>and also engaging in brutalities against ethnic Germans in Poland?
>
>Oh, by the bye - I snipped the off topic nonsense you tried to include to 
>deflect attention away from the inconvenient facts.

This guy's German figures are preposterous, like the rest of the
holocaust™ fables. It would not require 3 million soldiers to invade
Poland, and in fact the German armed services didn't even HAVE three
million soldiers to place on the Polish frontier or anywhere else for
that matter.

The invasion was a response to the threat posed by the mobilization.
The preparations on the German side were all done between the Polish
mobilization and September 1.


>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:56 EDT 2009
Article: 2011915 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:58:35 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message 
>news:cf2bc8ff-02e6-4a86-ac3b-6b440430fca6@y6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 22, 12:58 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 09:47:29 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Apr 22, 2:02 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> >> "Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:smvsu41m61tshng7d8qrltpjod8n1s0nui@4ax.com...
>> >> > When Germany attacked Poland. You have to wonder why they did
>> >> > something so stupid. Got any answers?
>>
>> >> Why was Poland sabre rattling and engaging in cross-border attacks 
>> >> against
>> >> Germany, shadesofraud?
>>
>> > Can you cite a history textbook mentioning these attacks?
>>
>> There is a book entitled "Der Tod sprach polnish" that reviews many of
>> the massacres of the Poles against ethnic minorities within
>> Versailles-Poland between 1919 and 1949, especially the ethnic German
>> minority that should never have been included in their jurisdiction in
>> the first place.
>
>>   That was an internal Polish matter.

When Poles start murdering ethnic Germans, then it does become a
German matter. Ethnic Germans, regardless of where they live on the
planet, are entitled to instant German citizenship if they return to
Germany. If I have a dispute with the government of Canada, I contact
the Consul General of Germany to intercede on my behalf, and he always
has done so in the past, and successfully. Germany is rather less a
place than it is a people. My children and grand-children would still
be entitled to German citizenship even though they were born in
Canada. My self image is that of a German person living in Canada.


>
>Using your logic, greaser, the Holocaust(tm) was an internal matter.
>
>Christ, you're a dimwit.
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:56 EDT 2009
Article: 2011916 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:11:53 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message 
>news:66368572-6733-40bd-ad18-18f6dc69ff59@u9g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 24, 1:58 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:cf2bc8ff-02e6-4a86-ac3b-6b440430fca6@y6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 22, 12:58 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 09:47:29 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>>
>> >  wrote:
>> > >On Apr 22, 2:02 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> > >> "Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>
>> > >>news:smvsu41m61tshng7d8qrltpjod8n1s0nui@4ax.com...
>> > >> > When Germany attacked Poland. You have to wonder why they did
>> > >> > something so stupid. Got any answers?
>>
>> > >> Why was Poland sabre rattling and engaging in cross-border attacks
>> > >> against
>> > >> Germany, shadesofraud?
>>
>> > > Can you cite a history textbook mentioning these attacks?
>>
>> > There is a book entitled "Der Tod sprach polnish" that reviews many of
>> > the massacres of the Poles against ethnic minorities within
>> > Versailles-Poland between 1919 and 1949, especially the ethnic German
>> > minority that should never have been included in their jurisdiction in
>> > the first place.
>> > That was an internal Polish matter.
>>
>> Using your logic, greaser, the Holocaust(tm) was an internal matter.
>>
>> Christ, you're a dimwit.
>
>>   So Poland and Czechoslovakia were parts of Germany?

The areas in question had been part of Germany for many centuries
prior to Versailles. The areas and their residents should never have
been given to Poland and Czechoslovakia in the first place.

>
>Que?  What the fuck are you blathering about, greaser?
>
>
He seems to be talking through his hat.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:57 EDT 2009
Article: 2011920 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:09:52 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message 
>news:82883139-83fe-4ffe-bb95-78ca8fcf94c2@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 23, 3:31 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>> Here are some quotes from "With Hitler on the Road to Power" by Dr.
>> Otto Dietrich
>
>>   Hitler's road to power was a road to ruin.
>
>Thanks to the yids.
>
>
>
Doing nothing was already the road to ruin, so Hitler didn't make it
any worse. Without WW2, Germany would still be paying ruinous
"reparations" for WW1. Today, it is a prosperous state on about 75% of
the territory of the Empire. The old German saying "Besser ein Ende
mit Schrecken, als ein Schrecken ohne Ende" still applies. (Better an
ending with horrors than a horror without end)


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:57 EDT 2009
Article: 2011921 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:57:41 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message 
>news:04g0v4tspdi0p6j4r4huhfs92oa1k5k4j5@4ax.com...
>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>news:8kttu4ppnp0n6ath31jjjf2kqtssrau419@4ax.com...
>>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:2lstu4l47q6mvv2bicrvsn9vtdo5oosr8l@4ax.com...
>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:jrvsu4l23conhnm4h2f980pjla3qcg8feh@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>First of all you are not using your real name. And we do not need a
>>>>>>>>>two
>>>>>>>>>facet parasite like you.
>>>>>>>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nobody really cares what you want, asswipe.  When you prove you're
>>>>>>>> using your real name then we'll talk. Post a scan of your driver's
>>>>>>>> license and birth certificate here. I  will allow the posting of a
>>>>>>>> binary file this one time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>When did you take ownership of the group, shadesoffraud?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> October 23, 2001.
>>>>>
>>>>>Wanker.
>>>>
>>>> Owner. Maybe you can help him when you're done proving Poland attacked
>>>> Germany, huh? [chuckle]
>>>
>>>They had been engaged in cross-border skirmishes for quite some time, 
>>>silly
>>>little man.
>>
>> Yes, Germany was provoking them and looking for an excuse to get into
>> war.
>
>You're a bit forgetful, shadesoffraud. And frightfully dishonest (or 
>stupid).

The Poles had the British assignment to get a war going, and they did.

>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:57 EDT 2009
Article: 2011922 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:   <2lstu4l47q6mvv2bicrvsn9vtdo5oosr8l@4ax.com>  <8kttu4ppnp0n6ath31jjjf2kqtssrau419@4ax.com> <5IydnVftWu77vW3UnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com> <04g0v4tspdi0p6j4r4huhfs92oa1k5k4j5@4ax.com>   
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On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:06:39 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message 
>news:sda3v45r9n02q2r4bsjtdimhehkibqjcgi@4ax.com...
>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>news:04g0v4tspdi0p6j4r4huhfs92oa1k5k4j5@4ax.com...
>>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:8kttu4ppnp0n6ath31jjjf2kqtssrau419@4ax.com...
>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:2lstu4l47q6mvv2bicrvsn9vtdo5oosr8l@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in 
>>>>>>>>>message
>>>>>>>>>news:jrvsu4l23conhnm4h2f980pjla3qcg8feh@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>First of all you are not using your real name. And we do not need 
>>>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>>two
>>>>>>>>>>>facet parasite like you.
>>>>>>>>>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nobody really cares what you want, asswipe.  When you prove you're
>>>>>>>>>> using your real name then we'll talk. Post a scan of your driver's
>>>>>>>>>> license and birth certificate here. I  will allow the posting of a
>>>>>>>>>> binary file this one time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>When did you take ownership of the group, shadesoffraud?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> October 23, 2001.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wanker.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Owner. Maybe you can help him when you're done proving Poland attacked
>>>>>> Germany, huh? [chuckle]
>>>>>
>>>>>They had been engaged in cross-border skirmishes for quite some time,
>>>>>silly
>>>>>little man.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Germany was provoking them and looking for an excuse to get into
>>>> war.
>>>
>>>You're a bit forgetful, shadesoffraud. And frightfully dishonest (or
>>>stupid).
>>
>> Yet Blow Hard has yet to come up with a single shred of evidence
>> proving me wrong.
>
>A lie, of course.
>
>You're dreadfully good at spluttering and lying, shadesoffraud, but totally 
>incapable of backing up your Holocaust(tm) thingie with anything like solid, 
>tangible, scientifically verifiable evidence.
>
All his anti-German crap is totally without substance.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:57 EDT 2009
Article: 2011924 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 15:26:14 -0500, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
(Gray Ghost) wrote:

>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in
>news:5IydnVftWu77vW3UnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com: 
>
>> 
>> "Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message 
>> news:8kttu4ppnp0n6ath31jjjf2kqtssrau419@4ax.com...
>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>>news:2lstu4l47q6mvv2bicrvsn9vtdo5oosr8l@4ax.com...
>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>> wrote: 
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>>>>news:jrvsu4l23conhnm4h2f980pjla3qcg8feh@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>First of all you are not using your real name. And we do not need a 
>>>>>>>>two facet parasite like you.
>>>>>>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nobody really cares what you want, asswipe.  When you prove you're
>>>>>>> using your real name then we'll talk. Post a scan of your driver's
>>>>>>> license and birth certificate here. I  will allow the posting of a
>>>>>>> binary file this one time. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When did you take ownership of the group, shadesoffraud?
>>>>>
>>>>> October 23, 2001.
>>>>
>>>>Wanker.
>>>
>>> Owner. Maybe you can help him when you're done proving Poland attacked
>>> Germany, huh? [chuckle]
>> 
>> They had been engaged in cross-border skirmishes for quite some time,
>> silly little man.
>> 
>> Do please learn to research before you open your gormy gob,
>> shadesoffraud. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>Cite any reputable history that says so. I've been studying WWII for over 40 
>years and I've never seen anywhere that Poland provoked Hitler.

You've obviously read the wrong material. Poland's provocations are
pretty obvious if you are not blinded by obligations to support allied
propaganda.


>There is the 
>little problem of the German-Soviet Pact that divided Poland between Germany 
>and the Soviets, much prior planning by the Germans and Hitler's stated 
>intention to use Poland as Lebensraum for Germany.

Poland is useless as "Lebensraum" for Germany or anybody else. Germany
just wanted the return of Danzig and other territories stolen from it
by the allied thieves post WW1.

As for Poland being divided between Hitler and Stalin, don't you find
it odd that Britain only took exception to Germany's involvement in
trying to recover stolen property, while sheer Soviet robbery was
perfectly acceptable?



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:58 EDT 2009
Article: 2011926 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:45:21 +0000 (UTC), Alan-from-Elimbah
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Gray Ghost  wrote:
>
>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in
>> news:5IydnVftWu77vW3UnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com: 
>
>>> Do please learn to research before you open your gormy gob,
>>> shadesoffraud. 
>
>> Cite any reputable history that says so. I've been studying WWII for over 40 
>> years and I've never seen anywhere that Poland provoked Hitler. There is the 
>> little problem of the German-Soviet Pact that divided Poland between Germany 
>> and the Soviets, much prior planning by the Germans and Hitler's stated 
>> intention to use Poland as Lebensraum for Germany.
>
>If you want to understand why "B.H. Cramer" posts as he does,
>have a look at these verbatim quotes from his missives to this
>newsgroup:
>
>   "I'm not here to rebut anything or anyone, cuntface. I'm here
>to antagonise and keep you occupied." -- Posted by "Ben Cramer",
>Message-ID:  .
>
>   "Had Hitler won the war, the world would be a much better
>place."  --Posted by "Ben Cramer",  Source:  Message-ID
>.
>
>   "You seem to think I am a backer of these Islamic monkeys. You
>couldn't be further from the truth." --  Posted by "Ben Cramer",
>Message-ID:
>
>   "Poofters should be fucked and burned." --  Posted by "Ben Cramer",
>Message-ID:
><42942e83$0$247$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>
>
>   "Women like you and the cohen cunt should be treated like
>gongs. Given a bloody good whack from time to time, to keep
>you in tune." -- Posted by "Ben Cramer",  Message-ID:
><2JednRLNN48kYADYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@giganews.com>.
>
>   "Yids are lice laddie" --  Posted by "Ben Cramer",  Message-ID
>.
>
>And this person is loved and admired by each and every
>"revisionist" posting here.  That says more about this
>"movement" than an entire encyclopedia could.
>
>Alan.

It would appear that "Alan" is another socket puppet of mcvay. The
same sleazy misquotation style gives it away.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:58 EDT 2009
Article: 2011927 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <0dumu4h6attm0frgbrg9laq41ct3s1v4rr@4ax.com> <8kttu4ppnp0n6ath31jjjf2kqtssrau419@4ax.com> <5IydnVftWu77vW3UnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com>   
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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:38:15 -0500, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
(Gray Ghost) wrote:

>Alan-from-Elimbah  wrote in
>news:gsqk10$abr$1@pcls6.std.com: 
>
>> In article ,
>> Gray Ghost  wrote:
>> 
>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in
>>> news:5IydnVftWu77vW3UnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com: 
>> 
>>>> Do please learn to research before you open your gormy gob,
>>>> shadesoffraud. 
>> 
>>> Cite any reputable history that says so. I've been studying WWII for
>>> over 40 years and I've never seen anywhere that Poland provoked Hitler.
>>> There is the little problem of the German-Soviet Pact that divided
>>> Poland between Germany and the Soviets, much prior planning by the
>>> Germans and Hitler's stated intention to use Poland as Lebensraum for
>>> Germany. 
>> 
>> If you want to understand why "B.H. Cramer" posts as he does,
>> have a look at these verbatim quotes from his missives to this
>> newsgroup:
>> 
>>    "I'm not here to rebut anything or anyone, cuntface. I'm here
>> to antagonise and keep you occupied." -- Posted by "Ben Cramer",
>> Message-ID:  .
>> 
>>    "Had Hitler won the war, the world would be a much better
>> place."  --Posted by "Ben Cramer",  Source:  Message-ID
>>.
>> 
>>    "You seem to think I am a backer of these Islamic monkeys. You
>> couldn't be further from the truth." --  Posted by "Ben Cramer",
>> Message-ID:
>> 
>>    "Poofters should be fucked and burned." --  Posted by "Ben Cramer",
>> Message-ID:
>><42942e83$0$247$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au
>>> 
>> 
>>    "Women like you and the cohen cunt should be treated like
>> gongs. Given a bloody good whack from time to time, to keep
>> you in tune." -- Posted by "Ben Cramer",  Message-ID:
>><2JednRLNN48kYADYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@giganews.com>.
>> 
>>    "Yids are lice laddie" --  Posted by "Ben Cramer",  Message-ID
>>.
>> 
>> And this person is loved and admired by each and every
>> "revisionist" posting here.  That says more about this
>> "movement" than an entire encyclopedia could.
>> 
>> Alan.
>> 
>> 
>
>A decidedly unsavory individual. It's just when people make such factually 
>and demonstrably false statments, sometimes I just ahve to respond.

If false statements bother you, how the hell do you live with
yourself?



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:58 EDT 2009
Article: 2011929 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <7VuHl.24732$PH1.19905@edtnps82>   <2lstu4l47q6mvv2bicrvsn9vtdo5oosr8l@4ax.com>  <8kttu4ppnp0n6ath31jjjf2kqtssrau419@4ax.com> <5IydnVftWu77vW3UnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com>   
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:18:41 -0500, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
(Gray Ghost) wrote:

>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in 
>news:heGdnRwOG5kJ4mzUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> 
>> "Gray Ghost"  wrote in message 
>> news:Xns9BF6A736B7BFFWereofftoseethewizrd@216.196.97.142...
>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in
>>> news:5IydnVftWu77vW3UnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>> news:8kttu4ppnp0n6ath31jjjf2kqtssrau419@4ax.com...
>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>>>>news:2lstu4l47q6mvv2bicrvsn9vtdo5oosr8l@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>>>> wrote: 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:jrvsu4l23conhnm4h2f980pjla3qcg8feh@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>First of all you are not using your real name. And we do not need a
>>>>>>>>>>two facet parasite like you.
>>>>>>>>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nobody really cares what you want, asswipe.  When you prove you're
>>>>>>>>> using your real name then we'll talk. Post a scan of your driver's
>>>>>>>>> license and birth certificate here. I  will allow the posting of a
>>>>>>>>> binary file this one time. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>When did you take ownership of the group, shadesoffraud?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> October 23, 2001.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wanker.
>>>>>
>>>>> Owner. Maybe you can help him when you're done proving Poland attacked
>>>>> Germany, huh? [chuckle]
>>>>
>>>> They had been engaged in cross-border skirmishes for quite some time,
>>>> silly little man. 
>>>>
>>>> Do please learn to research before you open your gormy gob,
>>>> shadesoffraud. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Cite any reputable history that says so. I've been studying WWII for over 
>>> 40 years and I've never seen anywhere that Poland provoked Hitler.
>> 
>> Do some more reading, laddie. You've obviously confined your reading to 
>> books authored by persons whose names conclude with .........stein, 
>> ..........man or .........berg.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>No you antisemitic dilbert, I've read many, many different books over the 
>years written by Americans, Brits and Germans both civilian and military.
>
>Of course I might have missed something so significant. Why don't you direct 
>me to a reputable reference that says such. Of course you will fall back on 
>your ususal idiot "look it up yourself" that last resort of a Nazi loving, 
>Holocaust denying gerbil.

Yawn. If you spent forty years studying and managed to come up with so
little, then perhaps it would be fair to say that you're wasting your
time and ours.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:59 EDT 2009
Article: 2011930 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:  <2lstu4l47q6mvv2bicrvsn9vtdo5oosr8l@4ax.com>  <8kttu4ppnp0n6ath31jjjf2kqtssrau419@4ax.com> <5IydnVftWu77vW3UnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com>    
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On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:10:51 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gray Ghost"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9BF77D4042FEAWereofftoseethewizrd@216.196.97.142...
>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in
>> news:heGdnRwOG5kJ4mzUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>
>>>
>>> "Gray Ghost"  wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9BF6A736B7BFFWereofftoseethewizrd@216.196.97.142...
>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in
>>>> news:5IydnVftWu77vW3UnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:8kttu4ppnp0n6ath31jjjf2kqtssrau419@4ax.com...
>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer"  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:2lstu4l47q6mvv2bicrvsn9vtdo5oosr8l@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in 
>>>>>>>>>message
>>>>>>>>>news:jrvsu4l23conhnm4h2f980pjla3qcg8feh@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>First of all you are not using your real name. And we do not need 
>>>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>>two facet parasite like you.
>>>>>>>>>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nobody really cares what you want, asswipe.  When you prove you're
>>>>>>>>>> using your real name then we'll talk. Post a scan of your driver's
>>>>>>>>>> license and birth certificate here. I  will allow the posting of a
>>>>>>>>>> binary file this one time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>When did you take ownership of the group, shadesoffraud?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> October 23, 2001.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wanker.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Owner. Maybe you can help him when you're done proving Poland attacked
>>>>>> Germany, huh? [chuckle]
>>>>>
>>>>> They had been engaged in cross-border skirmishes for quite some time,
>>>>> silly little man.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do please learn to research before you open your gormy gob,
>>>>> shadesoffraud.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cite any reputable history that says so. I've been studying WWII for 
>>>> over
>>>> 40 years and I've never seen anywhere that Poland provoked Hitler.
>>>
>>> Do some more reading, laddie. You've obviously confined your reading to
>>> books authored by persons whose names conclude with .........stein,
>>> ..........man or .........berg.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No you antisemitic dilbert, I've read many, many different books over the
>> years written by Americans, Brits and Germans both civilian and military.
>>
>> Of course I might have missed something so significant. Why don't you 
>> direct
>> me to a reputable reference that says such. Of course you will fall back 
>> on
>> your ususal idiot "look it up yourself" that last resort of a Nazi loving,
>> Holocaust denying gerbil.
>
>I don't deny anything, sunschein. That you're reduced to this type of 
>personal attack speaks volumes of your stupidity and desperation.

The style is so similar to the mcfee/mcvay act that I'm starting to
think that these people are sock-puppets.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:59 EDT 2009
Article: 2011931 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Is it holocaust, holohoax or holo-propaganda? 13 reasons to not swallow the HOAX.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:26:36 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:0pc1v4du027arn758jqrnhco6rhpjjcdin@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:42:51 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:9guuu4l89f76fjdr4af290v3at39hsuhm0@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:30:55 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:WukHl.24625$PH1.18858@edtnps82...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I'll Always Be 21/04/09"  wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>> news:aussies_suck-C7FC0B.02204221042009@aries.weretis.net...
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> <6dfHl.23288$Db2.10227@edtnps83>,
>>>>>>> "Truthseeker" 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>[snip]
>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where is your proof about the german
>>>>>>> ships being harassed by the british
>>>>>>> prior to WW2?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was in the german news papers at that time.
>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>
>>>>>As was all sorts of other propaganda. Mind you you havent produced WHICH
>>>>>newspaper have you? So you might as well say a pixie told you. By the 
>>>>>way
>>>>>I
>>>>>once read about maralyn Monroe returning to earth as a lettuce in a
>>>>>newspaper - the Weekly World News. about as reliable as you are on
>>>>>historic
>>>>>fact.
>>>>>
>>>> LOL
>>>>
>>>> Nobody is as heavily propagandized as the uniquely gullible and naive
>>>> Americans.
>>>
>>>Yet you expect people to accept anything you say about newspapers which 
>>>you
>>>have never read and to which you can't produce even a reference as to the
>>>title and date that ANY newspaper carried a story supporting any claim you
>>>have made?
>>>
>> That whole diatribe rests on the faulty assumption that just because
>> it is printed in a newspaper it must be true.
>
>
>LOL!
>And who was it who claimed "It was in the german news papers at that time."
>as a basis for something being true? 

German newspapers are owned by different people having different
points of view. In Canada, Izzy Asper owned 60% of the newspaper
business and making any critical reference to Israel was a firing
offense. As a consequence, one needed to take articles in Izzy's
papers with a grain of salt.

By contrast, if a whole raft of independent German newspapers reported
something, there was probably some truth to it.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:38:59 EDT 2009
Article: 2011933 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Smith" and the Auschwitz camp complex. 13 reasons to not swallow the HOAX.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:29:18 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>I have read a lot of books where it says revised edition and it should be
>normal for a society to investigate all the facts without hindrance. The
>holocaust history is an history of indoctrinated where eveiveryone has to
>believe all of it. Does who do not comply 100 % are considered holocaust
>denier and will be hindered in every way and shape to critic the holocaust
>saga.

All cults operate the same way. Either one is 100% "on board" or one
is a heretic. The holocaust™ cult is no different in basic form than
other cults. There are certain foundation myths that all cult members
MUST accept.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>
>"I'll Always Be 23/04/09"  wrote in message 
>news:aussies_suck-2D26DD.16224823042009@aries.weretis.net...
>> In article
>> ,
>> "Truthseeker" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have read a lot of books where it says revised edition
>>
>> Very interesting. Give us the title and
>> ISBN of just one.
>>
>>
>>> and it should be
>>> normal for a society to investigate all the facts without hindrance.
>>
>> As it is, however it should also be
>> normal for individuals to investigate
>> your lies without hindrance.
>>
>>
>>
>>> The
>>> holocaust history is an history of indoctrinated where eveiveryone has to
>>> believe all of it.
>>
>> Yes, you truly think we have to believe
>> all of your lies.
>>
>>
>>> Does who do not comply 100 % are considered holocaust
>>> denier and will be hindered in every way and shape to critic the 
>>> holocaust
>>> saga.
>>
>>
>> Yes, if we don't believe you we are
>> considered deniers and holohoaxers.
>>
>>
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>> news:9a2d$49f0d729$596480f8$22368@news.upc.ie...
>>> >
>>> > "Al Smith"  wrote in message
>>> > news:gsq8li$24f$1@news.motzarella.org...
>>> >> On 4/23/2009 6:46 AM, Mavisbeacon wrote:
>>> >>> "Al Smith"  wrote in message
>>> >>> news:gsnsfd$4h9$2@news.motzarella.org...
>>> >>>> On 4/22/2009 1:18 PM, ZuLu wrote:
>>> >>>>> m-weber escribió:
>>> >>>>>> In article ,
>>> >>>>>> Al Smith   wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I wonder if you'd happen to know if there is a book available
>>> >>>>>>> (preferably for free download on-line) on the methodology of
>>> >>>>>>> Holocaust historians -- about the way in which they arrive at 
>>> >>>>>>> their
>>> >>>>>>> conclusions, and the materials they have used to reach these
>>> >>>>>>> conclusions?
>>> >>>>>> I'd look at Hilberg's "The Destruction of European Jewry".  Don't
>>> >>>>>> know about free download -- try Google books.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>> Sure, also available and on eMule
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Graf Jurgen
>>> >>>>> Giant With Feet Of Clay. Raul Hilberg And His Standard Work On The
>>> >>>>> 'holocaust.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> In French
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> La Destruction De Raul Hilberg Par Lui-Meme
>>> >>>>> Proces Zundel, Introduction De Barbara Kulaszka 1988
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> (The Destruction of Raul Hilberg by himself, Zundel trial)
>>> >>>> OK, thanks, but are these works specifically focused on methodology?
>>> >>>> That's where I'd like some insight. I'm wondering how mainstream
>>> >>>> historians have reached their conclusions regarding the numbers of
>>> >>>> prisoners at the camps, the numbers gassed, and so on. Anyway, I'll
>>> >>>> copy down the titles of these texts and give them a Google to see 
>>> >>>> where
>>> >>>> they are.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Well they would not be "mainstream" unless they also worked on other
>>> >>> periods of history.
>>> >>> But if you are interested in scholarship you could begin here
>>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholarly_method
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If you are interested in REAL historical revision look here:
>>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revisionism
>>> >>>
>>> >>> But holocaust denial is just "negationism" and not revision
>>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revisionism_(negationism)
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Reputable and professional historians do not suppress parts of
>>> >>> quotations from documents that go against their own case, but take 
>>> >>> them
>>> >>> into account and if necessary amend their own case accordingly. They 
>>> >>> do
>>> >>> not present as genuine documents which they know to be forged just
>>> >>> because these forgeries happen to back up what they are saying. They 
>>> >>> do
>>> >>> not invent ingenious but implausible and utterly unsupported reasons 
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> distrusting genuine documents because these documents run counter to
>>> >>> their arguments; again, they amend their arguments if this is the 
>>> >>> case,
>>> >>> or indeed abandon them altogether. They do not consciously attribute
>>> >>> their own conclusions to books and other sources which in fact, on
>>> >>> closer inspection, actually say the opposite. They do not eagerly 
>>> >>> seek
>>> >>> out the highest possible figures in a series of statistics,
>>> >>> independently of their reliability or otherwise, simply because they
>>> >>> want for whatever reason to maximize the figure in question, but 
>>> >>> rather,
>>> >>> they assess all the available figures as impartially as possible in
>>> >>> order to arrive at a number that will withstand the critical scrutiny 
>>> >>> of
>>> >>> others. They do not knowingly mistranslate sources in foreign 
>>> >>> languages
>>> >>> in order to make them more serviceable to themselves. They do not
>>> >>> wilfully invent words, phrases, quotations, incidents and events for
>>> >>> which there is no historical evidence in order to make their 
>>> >>> arguments
>>> >>> more plausible.
>>> >>> Reference:
>>> >>> http://www.holocaustdenialontrial.org/en/trial/defense/evans/6
>>> >>>
>>> >>> When you have read that book come back and tell us if you have any
>>> >>> problems with it won't you?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> They also have some helpfull learning materials at the above site. if
>>> >>> you find any of their material is not fair then please tell us all.
>>> >>
>>> >> One thing I can tell you right now, that I've observed over the past
>>> >> couple of years. Historians are attached to universities, and publish
>>> >> through major scholarly book publishers. Their works are expected to 
>>> >> meet
>>> >> a certain standard, and if they fail to meet that standard, their 
>>> >> works
>>> >> are dismissed and mocked, and the careers of the writers are 
>>> >> destroyed.
>>> >> Any kind of serious questioning of the Holocaust dogma lies outside of
>>> >> the standard imposed by the universities and the scholarly book
>>> >> publishers and periodicals.
>>> >
>>> > No it does NOT!
>>> > Holocaust deniers frequently display SUB standard work! That is not 
>>> > extra
>>> > standard work!
>>> > All historians are not tenured in universities! Nor is it necessary 
>>> > they
>>> > are! AS long as they subscribe to the standards outlined above (which 
>>> > by
>>> > the way are NOT determied by what you observe) they are entitled to
>>> > respect by academics. Holocaust deniers do not live up to standards!
>>> >>
>>> >> Given these realities,
>>> >
>>> > What realities? The reality that most historians actually studied 
>>> > history
>>> > and got a degree in it and the reality that most people who can read 
>>> > and
>>> > write actually went to a school?
>>> >
>>> >>is it any surprise that historians are reluctant to write about
>>> >>revisionist ideas, except to refute or mock them?
>>> >
>>> > WRONG! Historians are and non historians are open to and DO revise
>>> > history. I for example have published on the revision of attitudes 
>>> > towards
>>> > the British in Ireland and that "Republicanism" should be revised.
>>> > Revision is not just about the WWII Holocaust. Holocaust denial is 
>>> > about
>>> > that. atrue historical revisionist is prepared to look into other 
>>> > periods
>>> > of history. Holocaust deniers are not.
>>> >
>>> >>They are terrified of losing their status, their jobs, their 
>>> >>livelihood.
>>> >>If you want an explanation as to why so few so-called "serious" 
>>> >>historians
>>> >>have touched revisionist ideas, there it is. Self-interest.
>>> >
>>> > So few historians (inded NONE) publish about the Holocaust not having
>>> > happened because it did happen and their expertise and knowledge 
>>> > convinces
>>> > them it did. why would they lie? Bigots and liars on the other hand are 
>>> > a
>>> > different matter.
>>> >
>>> >>They are protecting what they have built up over the years, and what 
>>> >>pays
>>> >>their bills.
>>> >
>>> > Nonsence! Academic historians for starters have tenure. They get paid
>>> > regardless. In fact it is more likely holocaust deniers have concocted
>>> > lies to sell books and make money.
>>> >
>>> >>Only those outside this hothouse scholarly environment are free to
>>> >>investigate revisionist ideas, because they have so much less to lose.
>>> >
>>> > Revisionism
>>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revisionism
>>> > is not negationism/ Holocaust denial
>>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revisionism_(negationism)
>>> >
>>> > I am neither an academic  holocaust historian or a WWII historian. My
>>> > qualifications are in science and part of my specialities is in the
>>> > history of science and the public understanding of it. I am not tenured 
>>> > in
>>> > any history department. I am a revisionist. I reject holocaust deniers 
>>> > as
>>> > valid and reliable history.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:00 EDT 2009
Article: 2011937 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For eugen holman
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:18:06 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:k1vuu41164r2v5iibtkgea1tbbv8j72isf@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:07:56 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:o0tou45984sjkgrjq8a5pshlrasutuq8tf@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:47:27 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>>> Holman) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article , "B.H. 
>>>>>Cramer"
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:holman-1904091242490001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>> > In article , "B.H.
>>>>>> > Cramer"
>>>>>> >  wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>>> >> news:holman-1904091136010001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> >> Nope. Not the Holocaust(tm). Attempt to do so in most European
>>>>>> >> >> nations
>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>> >> >> wind up in the slammer.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > An outright and easily debunked lie.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Tell that to Germar Rudolf et al.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > He, Zündel, and Stolz are German citizens subject to German law, 
>>>>>> > even
>>>>>> > if
>>>>>> > Sylvia Stolz claims otherwise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They aren't the only ones the Germans have tried to nail for words
>>>>>> against
>>>>>> the yids' Holocaust(tm) outside the country.
>>>>>
>>>>>It's not "the yids' Holocaust(tm)". The Holocaust is one of the most
>>>>>infamous episodes of German history. The German government, as the legal
>>>>>successor to Hitler's Reich, regards itself as having the moral
>>>>>responsibility to honor the memory of the millions of Holocaust victims
>>>>>and to squelch efforts to deny or trivialize this period of German
>>>>>history.
>>>>
>>>> If the story is historically true, then it does not require the
>>>> draconian support of the power of the German state to keep it upright.
>>>
>>>Who are you to tell the people of Germany what laws they should make for
>>>themselves?
>>
>> Being ethnically German, I have every right to comment on the mess
>> being made among my people and my fatherland. Right now, the German
>> "government" consists of allied stooges.
>
>LOL! what is an "ethnic" German?

Any person born to German parents is an ethnic German
(Volksdeutscher).

>
>Are you a German citizen?

Yes. I have both German and Canadian citizenship.

>Do you live in germany?

Irrelevant.

>Do you pay taxes there?

Irrelevant.

>Do you own any property there?

Yes, but still irrelevant.

>
>If the German people make a law for themselves you are saying others outside 
>of Germany have a right to change that law even when the German people 
>themselves made it?

The German people consists of all people born to parents who were
German citizens. That automatically makes you a German citizen,
regardless of where you were born. Being born in Germany entitles you
to nothing. You are German only because your parents were German.
German citizenship is based on blood, not on place of birth.

That is why it is almost impossible for aliens to obtain German
citizenship, but Volksdeutsche from Rumania get instant German
citizenship despite having been absent for more than 850 years.

This is GUARANTEED by the German constitution.

>>
>>>
>>>> Clearly the German authorities believe that the story needs all the
>>>> support it can get.
>>>
>>>You miss the point entirely. Your logic is aresways. there is no reasoned
>>>support for the conclusion that laws were passed to prevent a weak made up
>>>story being critiqued. they were passed to respect and honour the dead.
>>
>> They only honour the dead if the dead happen to have been Jewish.
>> Nobody else matters.
>
>That isn't true either! about half of the people who died were NON Jews! 
>they also are remembered. But maybe ther is room for revision there. In 
>order to revise the millions of non Jews who died as a majority you would 
>have to accept the minority group of about six miullion Jews also were 
>killed.
>
>
>>>>
>>>>> Much can be said about the means and methods used, but the
>>>>>majority of Germans as well as many people in neighboring countries once
>>>>>victimized by the Holocaust, support the efforts that Germany takes
>>>>>against Holocaust deniers and trivializers.
>>
>> The German people don't support it. They are just afraid to say
>> anything.
>
>Which means they support the law. If they didnt support it they wouldnt have 
>passed it. I would vote against such a law in my country but I am not going 
>to tell the Germans what to do.
>
>>>>
>>>> You're dreaming in technicolor. Germans don't support this BRD
>>>> witch-hunt, but they are afraid to complain and for much the same
>>>> reasons as they were afraid to complain during the NS period. It is
>>>> just a new bunch operating a reign of terror.
>>>
>>>Your logic is backwards again. it is quite the opposite. ther are no death
>>>camps today
>>
>> It is debatable as to whether there were any earlier.
>
>No it isn't! Well it is a one sided debate just as the Moon landings and the 
>Earth being Round is debatable.
>
>
>> Some allied
>> camps had death rates higher than the so-called Nazi death camps,
>
>No they hadn't! Which ones? Can you provide ANY evidence?
>
>>and
>> they didn't even need special measures such as gas chambers to achieve
>> these high death rates.
>
>You are saying that WWII European camps run by the Allies  had higher death 
>rates then Nazi death camps? Which ones had higher rates? Any details?
>
>
>>>and to argue that such laws were introduced by tyrants who reigh
>>>by terror just like the Nazis and their death camps is to argue against 
>>>the
>>>very basis with which you began.
>>
>> You are babbling propaganda nonsense. My parents lived in Germany
>> during that period,
>
>So what? are you asking me to believe travellers tales?
>
>>and the conditions were simply NOT the way that
>> allied propaganda likes to depict it.
>
>And your evidence is?
>
>
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:01 EDT 2009
Article: 2011938 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For eugen holman
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:31:32 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>news:85844$49f1c40c$596480f8$12818@news.upc.ie...
>>
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> news:k1vuu41164r2v5iibtkgea1tbbv8j72isf@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:07:56 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>news:o0tou45984sjkgrjq8a5pshlrasutuq8tf@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:47:27 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>>>> Holman) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article , "B.H. 
>>>>>>Cramer"
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:holman-1904091242490001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>>> > In article , "B.H.
>>>>>>> > Cramer"
>>>>>>> >  wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> >> news:holman-1904091136010001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >> Nope. Not the Holocaust(tm). Attempt to do so in most European
>>>>>>> >> >> nations
>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>> >> >> wind up in the slammer.
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> > An outright and easily debunked lie.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Tell that to Germar Rudolf et al.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > He, Zündel, and Stolz are German citizens subject to German law, 
>>>>>>> > even
>>>>>>> > if
>>>>>>> > Sylvia Stolz claims otherwise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They aren't the only ones the Germans have tried to nail for words
>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>> the yids' Holocaust(tm) outside the country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's not "the yids' Holocaust(tm)". The Holocaust is one of the most
>>>>>>infamous episodes of German history. The German government, as the 
>>>>>>legal
>>>>>>successor to Hitler's Reich, regards itself as having the moral
>>>>>>responsibility to honor the memory of the millions of Holocaust victims
>>>>>>and to squelch efforts to deny or trivialize this period of German
>>>>>>history.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the story is historically true, then it does not require the
>>>>> draconian support of the power of the German state to keep it upright.
>>>>
>>>>Who are you to tell the people of Germany what laws they should make for
>>>>themselves?
>>>
>>> Being ethnically German, I have every right to comment on the mess
>>> being made among my people and my fatherland. Right now, the German
>>> "government" consists of allied stooges.
>>
>> LOL! what is an "ethnic" German?
>
>You don't know?

Poor Mavis is an airhead. She obviously doesn't understand the concept
of "tribal state" and with that she cannot understand European
history.

>
>That's the end of conversation with you, you brain-dead twat.
>
>Bye.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:01 EDT 2009
Article: 2011940 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For eugen holman
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:20:03 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>news:npednW55bNCc8GzUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>> news:641fe$49f0578b$596480f8$1651@news.upc.ie...
>>>
>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>>> news:fs6dnZp8u7a3vW3UnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:cae69$49ef7fd5$596480f8$10940@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>
>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:TKydnXwbrfTFaHPUnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:6baf9$49eee64a$596480f8$16787@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:se2dnfURn58bY3fUnZ2dnVY3goSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>> news:holman-1904091242490001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>>>>> In article , "B.H. 
>>>>>>>>> Cramer"
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:holman-1904091136010001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> Nope. Not the Holocaust(tm). Attempt to do so in most European 
>>>>>>>>>> >> nations
>>>>>>>>>> >> and
>>>>>>>>>> >> wind up in the slammer.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > An outright and easily debunked lie.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tell that to Germar Rudolf et al.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He, Zündel, and Stolz are German citizens subject to German law, 
>>>>>>>>> even if
>>>>>>>>> Sylvia Stolz claims otherwise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They aren't the only ones the Germans have tried to nail for words 
>>>>>>>> against the yids' Holocaust(tm) outside the country.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If the words are said publicly anywhere, the Germans seem to be on 
>>>>>>>>>> a mission
>>>>>>>>>> to charge those speaking.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You're telling porkies again.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, you are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No I am not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Germany is *one* European country. It can enforce its Holocaust 
>>>>>>>>> denial
>>>>>>>>> laws against its own citizens anywhere, and it has tried, with 
>>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>> success, to have them enforced throughout the EU against anyone of
>>>>>>>>> whatever citizenship who violates them. That is not what you have 
>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>> claiming.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That they have tried is what matters. That the continue to try is 
>>>>>>>> worrying.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually NO it ISNT what matters!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Shut up school m'arm.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Off topic whine and incorrect assumptions snipped.
>>>
>>> trying to "nail for words against the yids' Holocaust(tm) outside the 
>>> country." is notpossible because of criminal jurisdiction not applying 
>>> which is why it is on topic you fool.
>>
>> Tell that to Doctor Toben, silly twat. Tell that to Bishop Williamson, 
>> silly twat.
>>
>> Why do you tell porkies?
>
>What crime did Bishop Williamson commit? When and where was he charged? 
>
He is guilty of herersy against the holocaust™ cult, with the result
that the pope caved in to Zionist pressure.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:01 EDT 2009
Article: 2011944 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For eugen holman
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:21:26 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:idvuu4p0qo93i5arhipb7gn3k889k8pvnk@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:00:25 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>news:se2dnfURn58bY3fUnZ2dnVY3goSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>> news:holman-1904091242490001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>> In article , "B.H. 
>>>>> Cramer"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:holman-1904091136010001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Nope. Not the Holocaust(tm). Attempt to do so in most European
>>>>>> >> nations
>>>>>> >> and
>>>>>> >> wind up in the slammer.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > An outright and easily debunked lie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tell that to Germar Rudolf et al.
>>>>>
>>>>> He, Zündel, and Stolz are German citizens subject to German law, even 
>>>>> if
>>>>> Sylvia Stolz claims otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> They aren't the only ones the Germans have tried to nail for words 
>>>> against
>>>> the yids' Holocaust(tm) outside the country.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If the words are said publicly anywhere, the Germans seem to be on a
>>>>>> mission
>>>>>> to charge those speaking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're telling porkies again.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, you are.
>>>>
>>>> No I am not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Germany is *one* European country. It can enforce its Holocaust denial
>>>>> laws against its own citizens anywhere, and it has tried, with little
>>>>> success, to have them enforced throughout the EU against anyone of
>>>>> whatever citizenship who violates them. That is not what you have been
>>>>> claiming.
>>>>
>>>> That they have tried is what matters. That the continue to try is
>>>> worrying.
>>>
>>>Actually NO it ISNT what matters!
>>>If you CLAIM that most EU countries have holocaust denial as a crime and
>>>they DONT then you are wrong. it does not matter how many times someone
>>>tried to introduce such a law if it was not introduced.
>>>
>>>And i suggest you learn something about "criminal juristiction" before you
>>>think the Germans can enforce a german criminal law anywhere outside of
>>>Germany.
>>
>> They regularly do. Where the hell have you been?
>
>So you can give me three examples of Germany doing this since you claim it 
>is so "regular"?
>Well?

When the editor of Spiegel magazine criticized F.J. Strauß, the
minister of defence, Augstein was charged with "treason, bribery and
forgery" and fled to Spain. At Germany's insistence, Augstein was sent
back to Germany in a sealed railway carriage.

Germany demanded that Zundel be turned over to them, and the
government of Canada caved in and complied, even though Zundel had
committed no crimes in Canada.

There was the recent attempt by Germany to get a British subject sent
to Germany because of holocaust™ comments, but the Brits didn't bite.

>
>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, I neglected to include Ireland in my list. The revised
>>>>> statistics are 12 vs. 33, that is to say 12 out of 45, 27%, of European
>>>>> nations have criminalized Holocaust denial. Your specious claim that
>>>>> publicly denying the Holocaust "in most European nations" will see you
>>>>> winding up in the slammer is even further refuted.
>>>
>>>I didnt read the list but Ireland do NOT have a holocaust denial crime. 
>>>they
>>>do have incitement to hatred which requires some ACT to happen. In fact
>>>under Common Law ( as in the UK and Ireland) there has to be an ACT as 
>>>well
>>>as mallicious forethought mens rei and actus rea i thikk the terms are.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You don't find that ludicrous?
>>>
>>>find what lidicrous? That your claims about "most european countries" was
>>>wrong?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Being gaoled for a belief is draconian.
>>>
>>>So you oppose the Nurnberg Laws against jews?
>>>Look! You have been shown that in most european countries you cant be 
>>>gaoled
>>>for a belief. In common law juristictions you have to have a malicious
>>>thought AND have an action based on it for a crime to be committed. In 
>>>other
>>>words the same act without the forethought may not be as bad e.g.
>>>manslaughter is not murder or the thought without an action eg. saying or
>>>believing the Holocaust didnt happen is not a crime.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:02 EDT 2009
Article: 2011945 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For eugen holman
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:33:48 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>news:bb928$49f1c40d$596480f8$12818@news.upc.ie...
>>
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> news:idvuu4p0qo93i5arhipb7gn3k889k8pvnk@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:00:25 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>news:se2dnfURn58bY3fUnZ2dnVY3goSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:holman-1904091242490001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>> In article , "B.H. 
>>>>>> Cramer"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:holman-1904091136010001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> Nope. Not the Holocaust(tm). Attempt to do so in most European
>>>>>>> >> nations
>>>>>>> >> and
>>>>>>> >> wind up in the slammer.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > An outright and easily debunked lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tell that to Germar Rudolf et al.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He, Zündel, and Stolz are German citizens subject to German law, even 
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> Sylvia Stolz claims otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>> They aren't the only ones the Germans have tried to nail for words 
>>>>> against
>>>>> the yids' Holocaust(tm) outside the country.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the words are said publicly anywhere, the Germans seem to be on a
>>>>>>> mission
>>>>>>> to charge those speaking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're telling porkies again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, you are.
>>>>>
>>>>> No I am not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Germany is *one* European country. It can enforce its Holocaust denial
>>>>>> laws against its own citizens anywhere, and it has tried, with little
>>>>>> success, to have them enforced throughout the EU against anyone of
>>>>>> whatever citizenship who violates them. That is not what you have been
>>>>>> claiming.
>>>>>
>>>>> That they have tried is what matters. That the continue to try is
>>>>> worrying.
>>>>
>>>>Actually NO it ISNT what matters!
>>>>If you CLAIM that most EU countries have holocaust denial as a crime and
>>>>they DONT then you are wrong. it does not matter how many times someone
>>>>tried to introduce such a law if it was not introduced.
>>>>
>>>>And i suggest you learn something about "criminal juristiction" before 
>>>>you
>>>>think the Germans can enforce a german criminal law anywhere outside of
>>>>Germany.
>>>
>>> They regularly do. Where the hell have you been?
>>
>> So you can give me three examples of Germany doing this since you claim it 
>> is so "regular"?
>
>Rudolf, Stolz, Zundel.
>
>There are more. Many more.
>
>You're a bit of a dill, girlie. I originally thought you had at least a 
>modicum of intelligence, but you have destroyed that impression.

She really has. In the case of mcfee/mcvay, it is clearly a case of
paid propagandists, but this woman comes across as genuinely stupid.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:02 EDT 2009
Article: 2012371 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:33:33 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:asc1v4t6a8m19vok2g1plh70m1emrbgn1m@4ax.com...
>[snip]
>
>>>>
>>>> The ONLY references to Jesus ANYWHERE are in the New Testament. There
>>>> is no independent verification that such a person ever actually
>>>> existed. The existence of Jesus is something taken on faith.
>>>
>>>WRONG! You have ignored the evidence alredy given to you in this very
>>>discussion!
>>
>> Well, I suggest that you write a LONG letter to the various seminaries
>> around the world and show them the error of their ways. There is zero
>> independent evidence of Christ's existence, let alone his deity.
>
>Really? which seminaries suggest thet the ONLY evidence for the historicity 
>of Jesus is exclusively Biblical as you claim ?

Any Lutheran seminary in Germany, Canada, Sweden  Finland, or Denmark
will point out that there is no "proof" of Christ's existence. It is
all a matter of faith.

>
>By the way if you had bothered to read the references below with which you 
>were furnished you would already know they include ROMAN CATHOLIC  CLERGY 
>who are accepted by the roamn church. they also onclude christian Orthodox 
>and Anglicans and Christian heretics and Jews and atheistists and people of 
>no religion all of whom are renowned scholars and accept there is sound 
>evidence that Jesus did in fact exist. they also range from the time of 
>Jesus to present day.

I repeat, there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except the
New Testament. If you find some, you will become world famous
overnight.

We're not talking here about the opinions of people who lived after
Christ's time, but of contemporary people or institutions that made a
mention of him in their writings.

No Roman official, including Pontius Pilate, made any mention of him
or his trial.

No contemporary writers made any mention of him.


>
>
>And don't try to CHANGE the subject from historicity of Jesus to alleged 
>Divinity of Jesus with your "let alone" comments!
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>and i told you all this before and you seemed to have ignored it! 
>>>remember?
>>>
>>>Message-ID: 
>>>With few exceptions (such as Robert M. Price), virtually all scholars in 
>>>the
>>>fields of biblical studies and history agree that Jesus was a Jewish 
>>>teacher
>>>from Galilee who was regarded as a healer, was baptized by John the 
>>>Baptist,
>>>was accused of sedition against the Roman Empire, and on the orders of 
>>>Roman
>>>Governor Pontius Pilate was sentenced to death by crucifixion.
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
>>> Raymond E. Brown, The Death of the Messiah: From Gethsemane to the Grave
>>>(New York: Doubleday, Anchor Bible Reference Library 1994), p. 964; D. A.
>>>Carson, et al., p. 50-56; Shaye J.D. Cohen, From the Maccabees to the
>>>Mishnah, Westminster Press, 1987, p. 78, 93, 105, 108; John Dominic 
>>>Crossan,
>>>The Historical Jesus: The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant,
>>>HarperCollins, 1991, p. xi-xiii; Michael Grant, p. 34-35, 78, 166, 200;
>>>Paula Fredriksen, Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews, Alfred A. Knopf,
>>>1999, p. 6-7, 105-110, 232-234, 266; John P. Meier, vol. 1:68, 146, 199,
>>>278, 386, 2:726; E.P. Sanders, pp. 12-13; Geza Vermes, Jesus the Jew
>>>(Philadelphia: Fortress Press 1973), p. 37.; Paul L. Maier, In the 
>>>Fullness
>>>of Time, Kregel, 1991, pp. 1, 99, 121, 171; N. T. Wright, The Meaning of
>>>Jesus: Two Visions, HarperCollins, 1998, pp. 32, 83, 100-102, 222; Ben
>>>Witherington III, pp. 12-20.
>>>
>>>>Jesus wrote nothing,
>>>He is recorded as having writing twice in the sand before he said "let him
>>>without sin cast the first stone".
>>>
>>>>built nothing,
>>>It would be unlikley if he was the son of a carpenter that he built 
>>>nothing.
>>>
>>>>founded nothing,
>>>
>>>Eh. He is also recorded as saying "On this rock I found my Church" to 
>>>Peter.
>>>
>>>>and
>>>> simply was not noticed by anybody other than the people who wrote the
>>>> scriptures.
>>>
>>>Your point being? Was "Ozymandias King of Kings" noticed? Look up "Sailing
>>>to Byzanthium".
>>>
>>>By the way it is also WRONG! Many people followed him who didn't write at
>>>all. Just as many people followed others in that time also. ever heard of
>>>simon Magnus , simon the magician? Or Barabbas?
>>>
>>>[end excerpt]>
>>>> Are all Roman Catholics as stupid as Mavis?
>>>
>>>Are all holocaust deniers as dishonest as you? you were shown all this on
>>>april 2:Outside the accepted canon of Holy Scriptures from heretical or 
>>>non
>>>cononical writings:
>>>
>>>The authors whose works are contained in the New Testament sometimes quote
>>>from creeds, or confessions of faith, that obviously predate their 
>>>writings.
>>>Scholars suppose that some of these creeds date to within a few years of
>>>Jesus' death, and were developed within the Christian community in
>>>Jerusalem.
>>> basic text is that of Oscar Cullmann, available in English in a 
>>> translation
>>>by J. K. S. Reid titled, The Earliest Christian Confessions (London:
>>>Lutterworth, 1949)
>>>Jesus is a large factor in New Testament apocrypha, works excluded from 
>>>the
>>>canon (Gnostic texts) as it developed because they were judged not to be
>>>inspired.
>>>
>>>Early Christian sources outside the New Testament also mention Jesus and
>>>details of his life. Important texts from the Apostolic Fathers are, to 
>>>name
>>>just the most significant and ancient, Clement of Rome (c. 100),[33]
>>>Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107-110),[34] and Justin Martyr.[35]
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_the_Trallians
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_the_Smyrneans
>>>
>>>Papias of Hierapolis
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papias
>>>
>>>
>>>Quadratus of Athens
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratus_of_Athens
>>>
>>>
>>>Greco-Roman sources
>>>Passages relevant to Christianity in the works of four major non-Christian
>>>writers of the late 1st and early 2nd centuries - Josephus, Tacitus,
>>>Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger.
>>>Josephus' writings, which document John the Baptist, James the Just, and
>>>possibly also Jesus, are of the most interest to scholars dealing with the
>>>historicity of Jesus
>>>Josephus calls James "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ."
>>>http://www.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/works/files/ant-20.htm
>>>Tacitus, in his Annals written c. 115, mentions popular opinion about
>>>Christus, without historical details
>>>According to Suetonius, chapter 25, there occurred in Rome, during the 
>>>reign
>>>of emperor Claudius (circa AD 50), "persistent disturbances ... at the
>>>instigation of Chrestus"
>>>
>>>
>>>Thallus, of whom very little is known, wrote a history from the Trojan War
>>>to, according to Eusebius, 109 BC. No work of Thallus survives. There is 
>>>one
>>>reference to Thallus having written about events beyond 109 BC. Julius
>>>Africanus, writing c. 221, while writing about the crucifixion of Jesus,
>>>mentioned Thallus. Thus:
>>>On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks 
>>>were
>>>rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were
>>>thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in his third book of History, calls 
>>>(as
>>>appears to me without reason) an eclipse of the sun.
>>>Julius Africanus, Extant Writings XVIII in Ante-Nicene Fathers, ed. A.
>>>Roberts and J. Donaldson (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1973) vol. VI, p. 130
>>>Lucian, a second century Romano-Syrian satirist, who wrote in Greek, 
>>>wrote:
>>>The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day - the distinguished
>>>personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that
>>>account. You see, these misguided creatures start with the general
>>>conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the 
>>>contempt
>>>of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and
>>>then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all
>>>brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of
>>>Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws
>>>Lucian, The Death of Peregrine, 11-13 in The Works of Lucian of Samosata,
>>>translated by H. W. Fowler (Oxford: Clarendon, 1949) vol. 4
>>>
>>>Celsus wrote, about 180AD, a book against the Christians, which is now 
>>>only
>>>known through Origen's refutation of it. Celsus apparently accused Jesus 
>>>of
>>>being a child and a sorcerer Morton Smith, Jesus the Magician: Charlatan 
>>>or
>>>Son of God? (1978) pp. 78-79.
>>>
>>>ther are Jewish records too but we ell skip them for now
>>>
>>>In The Historical Figure of Jesus, E.P. Sanders used Alexander the Great 
>>>as
>>>a paradigm-the available sources tell us much about Alexander's deeds, but
>>>nothing about his thoughts. "The sources for Jesus are better, however, 
>>>than
>>>those that deal with Alexander" and "the superiority of evidence for Jesus
>>>is seen when we ask what he thought."
>>>
>>>Actually I am reminded of Sanders comparison between jesus and alexander
>>>now. But more so the idea of the difference between Modern and Ancient
>>>history. Paul Barnett respected classicist and historian - "scholars of
>>>ancient history have always recognized the 'subjectivity' factor in their
>>>available sources" and "have so few sources available compared to their
>>>modern counterparts that they will gladly seize whatever scraps of
>>>information that are at hand." IN "Is the New Testament History?", p.1.
>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:03 EDT 2009
Article: 2012373 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:54:16 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>news:Yc6dnVwqf6aL7WzUnZ2dnVY3go-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:k632v41bh6h81ulbq1ort0fo1adrg0avdp@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:31:05 -0400, in
>>> , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:53:24 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>> >news:240vu4dae18c98gkkc61ba3m8gs5u0f0if@4ax.com...
>>>> >> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:46:12 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>> >>  wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>> >>>news:28eBl.115130$9j5.6247@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>> >>>> On 4/2/2009 4:17 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:22:10 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>> >>>>>  wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>> >>>>>> news:1qq4t41c7o2r9n0v9h33uph60bvnh8gmrf@4ax.com...
>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:32:48 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>> >>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>> >>>>>>>> news:CsmdnZPaZOVxpl7UnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> >>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jesus was a Jew himself.
>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you sure about that?  You can prove that?
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> The historicity of Jesus is an established field of research.
>>>> >>>>>>>> But if anyone believes in Jesus Christ existing in the past 
>>>> >>>>>>>> then it
>>>> >>>>>>>> is
>>>> >>>>>>>> ludicrous to believe he was NOT a Jew.
>>>> >>>>>>>> If one is claiming that Jesus Christ never existed then 
>>>> >>>>>>>> claiming he
>>>> >>>>>>>> was or
>>>> >>>>>>>> was not a Jew is pointless since one assigning an attribute to
>>>> >>>>>>>> something
>>>> >>>>>>>> which does not exist - a bit like saying the dragon was BLUE. 
>>>> >>>>>>>> It is
>>>> >>>>>>>> pointless to argue about whether they are blue red or yellow if 
>>>> >>>>>>>> your
>>>> >>>>>>>> main
>>>> >>>>>>>> point is that dragons never existed.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> As it happens though the historicity of Jesus is as established 
>>>> >>>>>>>> (or
>>>> >>>>>>>> probably
>>>> >>>>>>>> more established) as say Alexander the Great for example.
>>>> >>>>>>> Actually no, since lots of people saw or experienced Alexander 
>>>> >>>>>>> the
>>>> >>>>>>> Great,
>>>> >>>>>> Really?
>>>> >>>>>> And your evidence is?
>>>> >>>>>> Lots of people also saw and experienced Jesus by the way.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Nonsense. Jesus wrote nothing, built nothing, founded nothing, and
>>>> >>>>> simply was not noticed by anybody other than the people who wrote 
>>>> >>>>> the
>>>> >>>>> scriptures.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Sure got popular though, didn't he?  I guess you denier trash are
>>>> >>>> envious.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>He is recorded as having written TWICE. that isnt to say he did not 
>>>> >>>write
>>>> >>>more. the occasion was before he said "let him without sin cast the 
>>>> >>>first
>>>> >>>stone". i have already posted references by several people who were 
>>>> >>>not
>>>> >>>Christians and from others who were regarded as hetetics who wrote 
>>>> >>>about
>>>> >>>Jesus. Certainly MORE than anything produced on socrates Plato or
>>>> >>>alexander.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The ONLY references to Jesus ANYWHERE are in the New Testament. There
>>>> >> is no independent verification that such a person ever actually
>>>> >> existed. The existence of Jesus is something taken on faith.
>>>> >
>>>> >WRONG! You have ignored the evidence alredy given to you in this very
>>>> >discussion!
>>>>
>>>> Well, I suggest that you write a LONG letter to the various seminaries
>>>> around the world and show them the error of their ways. There is zero
>>>> independent evidence of Christ's existence, let alone his deity.
>>>
>>> Since his deity is a question of faith,
>>
>> As is yours, old feller. And your fellow Holocaustians.
>
>I never made any claims about deities!
>
>YOU claimed no evidence for Jesus except the writings in the Bible.
>You were WRONG!
>
>The Historicity of Jesus is an established field of history - unlike 
>holocaust denial! 

This sounds like Roman Catholic hocus pocus. No Roman historian or
government official of antiquity mentioned Jesus. 

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:04 EDT 2009
Article: 2012380 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NIZKOR Continues to Lie about Diesel Exhaust--and everything else!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:20:21 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <0hp0v4du1mlu2drn7pf3u36iv3p1q5bql9@4ax.com>,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:20:10 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article ,
>> >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>
>> >> 
>> >> Actually they did capture Stalingrad. 
>> >
>> >No they didn't. They managed to get into Stalingrad, but encountered
>> >unexpectedly robust resistance. They engaged in street-to-street,
>> >house-to-house, and even room-to-room combat, but the Wehrmacht *never*
>> >captured Stalingrad, but rather only occupied certain parts of the city.
>> >If you know anything about Russian gramar, its the difference between
>> >imperfective aspect (nesovershennyj vid) and perfective aspect
>> >(sovershennyj vid), between continuous "was doing" and punctive "did".
>> 
>> My books say that the 6th army captured the city but that they were
>> surrounded a few days later as Soviet reinforcements arrived. 
>
>Your book or your memory of it is wrong. The Sixth Army captured a large
>part of Stalingrad, but it never took the city completely or managed to
>terminate robust resistance to its presence anywhere. Of the three cities
>on the Wehrmacht's "must-capure" list, Leningrad, Moscow, and Stalingrad,
>Stalingrad was the only one that the Wehrmacht actually entered and
>partially occupied, but it never captured it as, for example, Kiev,
>Odessa, and Riga were captured. Everyone who has any understanding of WW
>II knows that the inability of the Wehrmacht to capture Stalingrad
>resulted, first, in an ultimatum from the Soviets to surrender or get
>their asses kicked, and in the Germans' rejection of the ultimatum and
>their asses being kicked all tge way back to Berlin.

German losses on the eastern front from the beginning of hostilities
to 31-MAR-45 amounted to 985,316 fallen and 1,281,285 missing, whereas
Russian losses, at least according to them, were of the order of
25,000,000 and that with the benefit of having a better than 15 to 1
numerical advantage over the German forces. A few instances of
"kicking asses" of that sort, and the Russians would be extinct.

By your reasoning, a foreign enemy would have failed to occupy the USA
if they neglected Rhode Island or Hawaii. In the larger picture, Rhode
Island really doesn't matter, and neither do some scattered suburbs of
Stalingrad.

Your "kicking ass" model is really ridiculous when you consider that
your Bolshevik heroes arrived at the eastern boundary of Silesia in
December of 1944 and were only able to advance as far as Dresden, a
mere 100 km further west by May 8, 1945 and that with enormous losses.
All the Russians had going for them was huge numbers, but the Russians
are not particularly good campaigners.



>
>> The
>> Russians clearly had no supply problems. Paulus could have easily
>> broken out of the encirclement, but he was ordered not to do so, since
>> his situation would be relieved by the 4th army. As it turned out,
>> that didn't happen, and with each passing day the 6th army became
>> weaker and less able to stage a breakout.
>
>Yes. They were surrounded. Hardly the situation that would prevail if they
>had captured the city.
> 
>> Of the 300,000 soldiers in the 6th army, approximately one third died
>> in the fighting, one third were flown out during the weeks of the
>> encirclement, and roughly one third went into Soviet captivity.
>> 
>> Your version of the events and your glorification of the Soviet
>> Communists make no sense. They sound like something taken out of a
>> Soviet propaganda manual.
>
>Quatsch! The Wehrmacht failed to capture Stalingrad and it was
>subsequently routed by the Soviet Army. This battle marked the end of the
>German capture of Soviet territory and the beginning of its retreat back
>to Berlin. This is a fact and there is nothing propagandistic or
>glorificational about it. Simply put, the Soviets won the Battle of
>Stalingrad, the Germans lost it big time, and the loss constituted the
>psychological and military turning point in WW II.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:04 EDT 2009
Article: 2012381 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NIZKOR Continues to Lie about Diesel Exhaust--and everything else!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 08:45:32 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:aoSdnZs1trl6uG_UnZ2dnUVZ_r5i4p2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> The hapless Intellectual Giant of Holocaust Revisionism,
>> Kurt Knoll, reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing
>> Stock of UseNet, fluffed his Chicken Yellow Hitler Jugend
>> Tutu with the "I am knolling" Cross and  wrote:
>>
>>>Interesting Eugene. Now tell us what did happen to the German soldier in
>>>Siberia. Or as a matter of fact to the German slave labour in Siberia 
>>>after
>>>world warII.
>>
>> There have never been any Germans in Siberia.
>
>Really? Do you want to rethink that stupid statement?
>
LOL

He never thought about it in the first place, which is why he made it.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:04 EDT 2009
Article: 2012384 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hungary plans to penalize Holocaust denial
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <758e6gF16rfncU1@mid.individual.net> <63794ae1-71ec-4b7c-81ad-5ac516e58915@z9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <2389144c-da32-49d3-bb02-da9f60d3b488@c18g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <52l1v453l0ea7e24jpm7spf1ogo2v16kac@4ax.com> 
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:49:31 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:52l1v453l0ea7e24jpm7spf1ogo2v16kac@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:04:11 -0700 (PDT), ????? ? ??????
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>On Apr 23, 8:32 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>>>wrote:
>>>> On Apr 22, 7:43 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > BUDAPEST, Hungary, April 20 (UPI) -- Hungary's Cabinet education and 
>>>> > culture
>>>> > minister asked deputies in Parliament to pass a bill to make denying 
>>>> > the
>>>> > Holocaust punishable by law.
>>>>
>>>> > Istvan Hiller, the education and culture minister, told the lawmakers 
>>>> > Monday
>>>> > the Holocaust denial is a crime in many European countries, adding 
>>>> > there are
>>>> > questions about which there is no room for compromise, the Hungarian 
>>>> > news
>>>> > agency MTI reported.
>>>>
>>>> > Hiller said a democratic duty is to condemn Holocaust denial.
>>>>
>>>> > Hundreds of far-right activists, many of them sporting uniforms 
>>>> > similar to
>>>> > Nazi ones, demonstrated "against Zionist rule" and in favor of 
>>>> > Holocaust
>>>> > denial in the streets of Budapest Saturday.
>>>>
>>>> > On Sunday, Ildiko Lendvai, leader of the Hungarian Socialist party, 
>>>> > said the
>>>> > Saturday demonstrators were Nazis. She said Holocaust denial should 
>>>> > not
>>>> > happen in any European country without punishment, MTI reported.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder what pro free political speech McVay aka Mc Long Legged Mac
>>>> Daddy has to say about this.
>>>> What does the term 'democratic duty' mean?
>>>> What does the term 'democratic' mean?
>>>> Who is this lendvai jerk to punish anyone? How the flip did she get
>>>> authority to punish anyone? Oh. The peeps voted for her. The dumb
>>>> programmed masses. baaaaaaaahhhhhh
>>>
>>>It comes from the EU. "We'll give you more money for this and that
>>>project
>>>but in return you'll have to destroy your country's identity and
>>>become a
>>>quasi-soviet state." Same way they lured East Europe to join NATO.
>>>Where
>>>does the EU get its money?
>>
>> Germany.
>>
>> It is the only EU country that actually contributes anything and the
>> rest collect various levels of handouts.
>
>That's what happens when you lose a war.

That's what the pompous bastards in Brussels keep telling German
officials. Despite the fact that German-speaking people are the
largest group within the EU, German is not apparently "officially" an
official language, but a previous German chancellor told the gnomes in
Brussels that if the document were important, and if they wanted
German officials to act on it, then it had better be in German. That
got the message across, and subsequent EU epistles were in German.

>
>
>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:05 EDT 2009
Article: 2012385 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: norway to sue jews for war crimes
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 04:00:03 -0700 (PDT), nappissat@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

>IT WILL TAKE FOR ISRAEL FEW DAY TO FINISH SUPER-ARIAN NAZI NORWAY WHO
>COLLABORATE WITH GERMANS IN WW2  THE NORWEGIANS WHORE HAD 35000
>ILLEGAL CHILDREN FROM FASCIST DURING WW2 THIS SAYS A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
>ABOUT NORWAY! TIME TAKE REVENGE!

ROTFLMAO

Take your psychiatric medication guy. It is pretty clear that you have
missed a few doses.

>
>
>On 24 Apr, 09:43, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> The lawyers, who plan to file their complaint with Norway's chief prosecutor
>> on Wednesday, said they will call for the arrest and extradition of Olmert
>> as well as former foreign affairs minister Tzipi Livni, Defence Minister
>> Ehud Barak and seven senior Israeli army officers.
>>
>> Under the Norwegian penal code, courts may hear cases involving war crimes
>> and other major violations of human rights.
>>
>> The lawyers released a statement accusing Israel of "massive terrorist
>> attacks" in the Gaza Strip from December 27 last year to January 25, killing
>> civilians, illegally using weapons against civilian targets and deliberately
>> attacking hospitals and medical staff.
>>
>> "There can be no doubt that these subjects knew about, ordered or approved
>> the actions in Gaza and that they had considered the consequences of these
>> actions," the lawyers' statement said.
>>
>> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090421/twl-norwegian-lawyers-to-accuse-...


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:05 EDT 2009
Article: 2012386 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jew barak: idf among world's most moral armies
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 08:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Rere 
wrote:

>On 24 huhti, 15:19, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>  schreef in berichtnews:ef2e8b2d-56f4-495a-aca4-9e903ccb5c6c@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...> THIS IS TRUE WHATS WRONG WITH IT?
>>
>>  YOU HAVE BEEN INDOCTRINATED BY THE PRESS YOU SHOULD WATCH MNORE BBC
>
>Who cares about those Gaza dwellers who are ecological burden in the
>already overpopulated world? They are breeding like cockroaches and
>all of them would starve if the rest of the world refused to feed
>them.

The same thing could be said of Israelis, so what is your point
besides exposing yourself as an ignorant bigot and clueless jackass?



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:05 EDT 2009
Article: 2012432 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:      <4ll0v4dm8dsqi8alroam10t3f0t4s10hqf@4ax.com> <7k12v4hvv0a07p66r611kc36lcl956tl97@4ax.com> <7c-dnQIoRdDm42zUnZ2dnVY3go6dnZ2d@giganews.com>  
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:00:16 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:gio6v4p3ouf4hooblknc5s55uda1o3dikj@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:55:16 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>news:7k12v4hvv0a07p66r611kc36lcl956tl97@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:55:27 -0400, in
>>>> <4ll0v4dm8dsqi8alroam10t3f0t4s10hqf@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:11:09 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>>> >news:fettu4d2sn73uf7436q1aqpsj53rj70157@4ax.com...
>>>>> >> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in 
>>>>> >>>message
>>>>> >>>news:ohstu4lg2uf0jncj1mc5j99dq4odaoumho@4ax.com...
>>>>> >>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in
>>>>> >>>>>message
>>>>> >>>>>news:smvsu41m61tshng7d8qrltpjod8n1s0nui@4ax.com...
>>>>> >>>>>> In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:18:49 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:18:25 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>How do you explain Germany getting whipped by sub-humans?
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Compare the size of Germany to the size of the Jewish
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>controlled
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>countries, the USA and the USSR.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Now, why would such a SMART bunch of guys take on that many
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Jews?
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Why,
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>you'd have to be fucking crazy, wouldn't you?
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>No answer?
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>Not so well known is the story of Roosevelt's enormous
>>>>> >>>>>>>responsibility
>>>>> >>>>>>>for the outbreak of the Second World War itself. This essay
>>>>> >>>>>>>focuses on
>>>>> >>>>>>>Roosevelt's secret campaign to provoke war in Europe prior to 
>>>>> >>>>>>>the
>>>>> >>>>>>>outbreak of hostilities in September 1939.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> When Germany attacked Poland. You have to wonder why they did
>>>>> >>>>>> something so stupid. Got any answers?
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>Why was Poland sabre rattling and engaging in cross-border attacks
>>>>> >>>>>against
>>>>> >>>>>Germany, shadesofraud?
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> They weren't, nazi-boy.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>You lie, shadesoffraud.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Following a German-staged "Polish attack" on 31 August 1939, on
>>>>> >> September 1, German forces invaded Poland from the north, south, and
>>>>> >> west.
>>>>>
>>>>> >Go back a few months, shadesoffraud.
>>>>>
>>>>> The jerk is playing with the facts and injecting allied propaganda as
>>>>> history. Poland ordered general mobilization on August 25, and that
>>>>> counts as a declaration of war against Germany. That is all the
>>>>> justification required for an invasion.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for admitting that Germany invaded Poland.  Poland ordered a
>>>> partial mobilization on August 25 because there were 3 million German
>>>> troops massed on their border.
>>>
>>>A challenge for you old feller. Let's see if you're honest.
>>>
>>>Do you, or do you not accept that Poland had been sabre rattling toward
>>>Germany and involving themselves in cross-border skirmishes into Germany,
>>>and also engaging in brutalities against ethnic Germans in Poland?
>>>
>>>Oh, by the bye - I snipped the off topic nonsense you tried to include to
>>>deflect attention away from the inconvenient facts.
>>
>> This guy's German figures are preposterous, like the rest of the
>> holocaustT fables. It would not require 3 million soldiers to invade
>> Poland, and in fact the German armed services didn't even HAVE three
>> million soldiers to place on the Polish frontier or anywhere else for
>> that matter.
>>
>> The invasion was a response to the threat posed by the mobilization.
>> The preparations on the German side were all done between the Polish
>> mobilization and September 1.
>
>I'm quite sure Oy Vey McFey or Oy Vey McFee will be able to conveniently 
>"discover" some documentation to prove you are incorrect, a liar, a nazi, a 
>white-supremacist, a jew hater, a bigot or any other type of nastiness they 
>need.

If need be, mcfee/mcvay will manufacture the "documentation".

>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:06 EDT 2009
Article: 2012434 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:      <4ll0v4dm8dsqi8alroam10t3f0t4s10hqf@4ax.com> <7k12v4hvv0a07p66r611kc36lcl956tl97@4ax.com> <7c-dnQIoRdDm42zUnZ2dnVY3go6dnZ2d@giganews.com>  <3b-dnavYJ9hZBW7UnZ2dnVY3go-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:11:50 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:psr6v4l527n3i72v0co52s66mmjcle4akp@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:55:16 +1000, in
>> <7c-dnQIoRdDm42zUnZ2dnVY3go6dnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> news:7k12v4hvv0a07p66r611kc36lcl956tl97@4ax.com...
>>> > On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:55:27 -0400, in
>>> > <4ll0v4dm8dsqi8alroam10t3f0t4s10hqf@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:11:09 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>> >> >news:fettu4d2sn73uf7436q1aqpsj53rj70157@4ax.com...
>>> >> >> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in 
>>> >> >>>message
>>> >> >>>news:ohstu4lg2uf0jncj1mc5j99dq4odaoumho@4ax.com...
>>> >> >>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>> >> >>>> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in
>>> >> >>>>>message
>>> >> >>>>>news:smvsu41m61tshng7d8qrltpjod8n1s0nui@4ax.com...
>>> >> >>>>>> In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:18:49 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>> >> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:18:25 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>How do you explain Germany getting whipped by sub-humans?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>Compare the size of Germany to the size of the Jewish
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>controlled
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>countries, the USA and the USSR.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Now, why would such a SMART bunch of guys take on that many
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Jews?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Why,
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>you'd have to be fucking crazy, wouldn't you?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>No answer?
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>Not so well known is the story of Roosevelt's enormous
>>> >> >>>>>>>responsibility
>>> >> >>>>>>>for the outbreak of the Second World War itself. This essay
>>> >> >>>>>>>focuses on
>>> >> >>>>>>>Roosevelt's secret campaign to provoke war in Europe prior to 
>>> >> >>>>>>>the
>>> >> >>>>>>>outbreak of hostilities in September 1939.
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> When Germany attacked Poland. You have to wonder why they did
>>> >> >>>>>> something so stupid. Got any answers?
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>Why was Poland sabre rattling and engaging in cross-border 
>>> >> >>>>>attacks
>>> >> >>>>>against
>>> >> >>>>>Germany, shadesofraud?
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> They weren't, nazi-boy.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>You lie, shadesoffraud.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Following a German-staged "Polish attack" on 31 August 1939, on
>>> >> >> September 1, German forces invaded Poland from the north, south, 
>>> >> >> and
>>> >> >> west.
>>> >>
>>> >> >Go back a few months, shadesoffraud.
>>> >>
>>> >> The jerk is playing with the facts and injecting allied propaganda as
>>> >> history. Poland ordered general mobilization on August 25, and that
>>> >> counts as a declaration of war against Germany. That is all the
>>> >> justification required for an invasion.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for admitting that Germany invaded Poland.  Poland ordered a
>>> > partial mobilization on August 25 because there were 3 million German
>>> > troops massed on their border.
>>>
>>> A challenge for you old feller. Let's see if you're honest.
>>>
>>> Do you, or do you not accept that Poland had been sabre rattling toward
>>> Germany and involving themselves in cross-border skirmishes into Germany,
>>> and also engaging in brutalities against ethnic Germans in Poland?
>>
>> No, I do not.  Where is your proof?
>
>Oh, ferfuckssake. I thought you had "researched" the politics of this period 
>of history?
>
>Don't you remember the Poles had made themselves ready to attack Germany 
>well before September 1st  '39?
>Don't you remember the brutality meted out to ethnic Germans in Poland
>
>Christ gourd. I never had you down as a liar.
>>
>>> Oh, by the bye - I snipped the off topic nonsense you tried to include to
>>> deflect attention away from the inconvenient facts.
>>
>> You must mean this: "By the way, Canada also ordered a
>> partial mobilization on August 25.  Why did Germany not invade
>> Canada?"  That's typical.  Snip what you can't deal with.

It would be hard for Canada to order partial mobilization, since
Canada did not have conscription at that point. Canada had an
all-volunteer army then and again now.

>
>It's still off topic, silly old man.
>
>This is typical of you people. When things become a wee bit uncomfortable 
>you bring in the childish "But what about him/her/them" nonsense. Twatty was 
>a master at it. Keenan is at it all the time too.
>
>Behave yourself. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:06 EDT 2009
Article: 2012440 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <86d9v4thpbol578k5agrkjtrbknrpjc3jj@4ax.com>
References: <20qsu4ps4f0sadcdnc013n4ntj9u4emedr@4ax.com>  <7VuHl.24732$PH1.19905@edtnps82>   <82883139-83fe-4ffe-bb95-78ca8fcf94c2@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>  <7cp6v4dani6q70magr2ssvpd30slbr9m3b@4ax.com>  
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:02:43 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:srs6v4hgu8gbsf7miqg3i0cg195c3ocgsp@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 15:37:10 -0400, in
>> <7cp6v4dani6q70magr2ssvpd30slbr9m3b@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:09:52 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >"Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message
>>> >news:82883139-83fe-4ffe-bb95-78ca8fcf94c2@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>>> >On Apr 23, 3:31 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>> >> Here are some quotes from "With Hitler on the Road to Power" by Dr.
>>> >> Otto Dietrich
>>> >
>>> >>   Hitler's road to power was a road to ruin.
>>> >
>>> >Thanks to the yids.
>>> >
>>> Doing nothing was already the road to ruin, so Hitler didn't make it
>>> any worse. Without WW2, Germany would still be paying ruinous
>>> "reparations" for WW1. Today, it is a prosperous state on about 75% of
>>> the territory of the Empire. The old German saying "Besser ein Ende
>>> mit Schrecken, als ein Schrecken ohne Ende" still applies. (Better an
>>> ending with horrors than a horror without end)
>>
>> So you are happy that Hitler caused the slaughter of 7,233,000 Germans
>> because now Germany is prosperous.
>
>He does not say that at all, gourd. Keep a lid on it, old feller. Your 
>hatred is begining to overtake your limited reality.
>
>>You are one sick fuck.
>
>Really? From where I sit it appears it's you who is putting words into 
>another's mouth.
>
>That's pretty sick.

That has always been gourd's approach to "discussion".

>
>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:06 EDT 2009
Article: 2012442 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <7ad9v4da0sgj1e4bqqnb27s0vkl3vb5mfl@4ax.com>
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On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:53:02 +0000 (UTC), Alan-from-Elimbah
 wrote:

>In article <00q6v45en47k2c8ac8hga5e441hkn5qf60@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:45:21 +0000 (UTC), Alan-from-Elimbah
>>  wrote:
>
>>> If you want to understand why "B.H. Cramer" posts as he does,
>>> have a look at these verbatim quotes from his missives to this
>>> newsgroup:
>>>
>>>    "I'm not here to rebut anything or anyone, cuntface. I'm here
>>> to antagonise and keep you occupied." -- Posted by "Ben Cramer",
>>> Message-ID:  .
>>>
>>>    "Had Hitler won the war, the world would be a much better
>>> place."  --Posted by "Ben Cramer",  Source:  Message-ID
>>> .
>>>
>>>    "You seem to think I am a backer of these Islamic monkeys. You
>>> couldn't be further from the truth." --  Posted by "Ben Cramer",
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>>    "Poofters should be fucked and burned." --  Posted by "Ben Cramer",
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <42942e83$0$247$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>
>>>
>>>    "Women like you and the cohen cunt should be treated like
>>> gongs. Given a bloody good whack from time to time, to keep
>>> you in tune." -- Posted by "Ben Cramer",  Message-ID:
>>> <2JednRLNN48kYADYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@giganews.com>.
>>>
>>>    "Yids are lice laddie" --  Posted by "Ben Cramer",  Message-ID
>>> .
>>>
>>> And this person is loved and admired by each and every
>>> "revisionist" posting here.  That says more about this
>>> "movement" than an entire encyclopedia could.
>
>> It would appear that "Alan" is another socket puppet of mcvay.
>
>LOL!
>
>> The same sleazy misquotation style gives it away.
>
>"misquotation"?  What "misquotation"?  Please be specific.

It looks like the half-baked nonsense lists found on Nizkor, the
well-known hate-site.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:07 EDT 2009
Article: 2012452 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hebes have had David Duke Arrested - Goodbye free speech everywhere
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 12:37:42 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:2377v45mmj8uemn1qj87nsgin0q0emtl2s@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 08:43:02 +1000, in
>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Czech Poice arrest David Duke for suspicion of thought crimes
>>> http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/news/zpravy/czech-police-arrest-former-ku-klux-klan-leader-duke/373167
>>>
>>> Prague - The Czech police arrested David Duke, former leader of the Ku 
>>> Klux
>>> Klan racist movement, in Prague today on suspicion of promotion of 
>>> movements
>>> seeking suppression of human rights, Prague police spokesman told CTK.
>>
>> Great.  To the slammer with him.
>
>For what?

Heresy against the holocaust™ cult would be the charge, much along the
patterns in the Middle Ages. The Czechs were good at burning people at
the stake then too.

>
>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:07 EDT 2009
Article: 2012456 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews doubt demjanjuk's illness
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <37e9v4dfpojq4tthinp0fqk3qghk7hrcg2@4ax.com>
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:34:37 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:Yt6dnbAqpaUd_m7UnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> Truthseeker  wrote:
>>>Kenneth if Demjanjuk is gone who will be your next Guinea pig.
>>
>> Mr. Demjanjuk is a rodent?
>
>More rampant hatred being sprayed by mcFey. 

Hate-mongering is mcvay's business, much like murder is a hit-man's
business.


>Sprayed because he has a 
>contractual obligation to do so.
>
>You're a sick puppy, mcFey. You have very, very bad Karma.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:08 EDT 2009
Article: 2012467 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: david duke is free
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 07:01:24 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>Yes, I am now free, at least temporarily
>
>The outrage by so many Czech citizens and even many in the media after my 
>arrest led the government to release me from my cell in the wee hours of the 
>morning, After about 3 hours sleep I now write these words to you.
>
>The charges, of course, from the beginning are specious. I was invited to 
>the Czech Rep. originally to speak at one of the oldest and most famous 
>universities in Europe, Charles University in Prague.

Actually, the university was founded by Germans, not Czechs.



> It is also famous for 
>being founded by heroic Czechs like Jan Hus

The university existed for centuries before Hus arrived on the scene.




> who stood up and told the truth 
>and believed that truth and its pursuit is the most important thing a man 
>can do in his life, even if costs him his life and freedom. This is the man 
>who is the national hero of the Czech people.
>
>As those who read my material know, I do not seek the suppression of any 
>people, race or religion, but simply believe that Europeans have the human 
>right to preserve our homelands and that our governments should be in the 
>service of our own people and not the International Zionist Global matrix of 
>financial and political power. I am not a man who denies that atrocities 
>took place against Jews in the Second World War, but I argue forcefully that 
>freedom of speech on this or any other is issue is a basic human right of 
>all people.
>
>My lectures in the Czech republic were not on the subject of the Holocaust 
>at all, in fact why all the constant attention on this subject by the media, 
>when one considers the fact that Bolshevism killed, tortured and harmed tens 
>of millions of more people. I never speak about the Holocaust in Europe 
>other than to say that it is a human rights outrage that people are 
>imprisoned for simply having a differing opinion about an historical event.
>
>I was going to lecture about the Israeli influence over American and 
>European foreign policy and the International Zionist Banking firms that are 
>leading America and the world to financial oblivion, globalist hegemony and 
>unending war.
>
>Now they seek a terrible, catastrophic war with Iran.
>
>That is why extremist Jewish organizations worked to keep my message and 
>ideas from the Czech people and the world.
>
>I am doing tremendous numbers of interviews because of this false 
>imprisonment, so we are reaching literally millions of people here in the 
>Czech Rep. and around the world that I would not have reached otherwise.
>
>I was lucky to have excellent legal representation, but although I am free 
>we must be prepared for any legal challenge against my freedom and the right 
>of Europeans to hear the legitimate ideas that I offer. I certainly am not 
>guilty of any violation of Czech law either in its letter or spirit.
>
>To that end, we need to raise considerable funds for legal defense and hope 
>that all supporters will take a moment to contribute to that necessity as 
>well as the vital work I endeavor to continue for our people.
>
>Please go to www.davidduke.com and give me the support I need to stay free 
>and to continue to support your cause and mine.
>
>I am very thankful of the response so far and am anxious to hear from all of 
>you.
>
>Best to all.
>
>David Duke


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:08 EDT 2009
Article: 2012556 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:27:26 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:oe59v4hab5cq1b52pujp7n9gca4vdk8u30@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:33:33 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:asc1v4t6a8m19vok2g1plh70m1emrbgn1m@4ax.com...
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The ONLY references to Jesus ANYWHERE are in the New Testament. There
>>>>>> is no independent verification that such a person ever actually
>>>>>> existed. The existence of Jesus is something taken on faith.
>>>>>
>>>>>WRONG! You have ignored the evidence alredy given to you in this very
>>>>>discussion!
>>>>
>>>> Well, I suggest that you write a LONG letter to the various seminaries
>>>> around the world and show them the error of their ways. There is zero
>>>> independent evidence of Christ's existence, let alone his deity.
>>>
>>>Really? which seminaries suggest thet the ONLY evidence for the 
>>>historicity
>>>of Jesus is exclusively Biblical as you claim ?
>>
>> Any Lutheran seminary in Germany, Canada, Sweden  Finland, or Denmark
>> will point out that there is no "proof" of Christ's existence. It is
>> all a matter of faith.
>
>You began by stating there is NO REFERENCE outside the New Testament of the 
>Bible and all belie of jesus is taken on faith.
>You then asserted that any seminary will tell people this.
>When asked whaich ones you supply as a sample the seminaries of a Biblican 
>Fundamentalist section of Protestantism which is in itself a vastly minor 
>part of christianity!

You are a fucking moron! The Lutheran Church is by far the largest
Protestant denomination (much bigger than Anglicanism), it is
definitely NOT fundamentalist, and it is also the oldest Protestant
denomination.

>By vastly minor Roman Catholics are over about 1 billion orthodox about 500 
>million and anglicans ( Of which the largest is the church of england which 
>in itself is probably "catholic" with the exception of having the Monarch at 
>the head instead of the Pope about 100 million. Thats about 1.5 BILLION who 
>are notsubscribing to your "no evidence outside the Bible" claim!

This isn't about numbers of adherents but about whether you can come
up with INDEPENDENT (non religious) verification of Christ's
existence.

>The "faith alone" argument of Biblican fundamentalists centuries old and a 
>MINORITY ie VAST MINORITY i.e a few percent position!

This isn't about the Bible or its interpretation. Can you find a
contemporary reference to Jesus Christ that is NOT in the Bible or any
other religious writing?

>
>>
>>>
>>>By the way if you had bothered to read the references below with which you
>>>were furnished you would already know they include ROMAN CATHOLIC  CLERGY
>>>who are accepted by the roman church. they also onclude christian Orthodox
>>>and Anglicans and Christian heretics and Jews and atheistists and people 
>>>of
>>>no religion all of whom are renowned scholars and accept there is sound
>>>evidence that Jesus did in fact exist. they also range from the time of
>>>Jesus to present day.

They don't count because they are religious people and they were not
Christ's contemporaries. The views they hold are just opinions. Where
are the Roman court transcripts of Christ's trial, for example? That
would count as proof, not the babblings of some priest or another who
lived centuries later and who made his living from this religion.

>>
>> I repeat, there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except the
>> New Testament. If you find some, you will become world famous
>> overnight.
>
>You have alreadyt been furnished with them which of them do you think is 
>wrong?

None of them count as "independent" of this religion, so there is a
vested interest and none of them were contemporaries of Christ.

>
>What about Thallus?

What about him? This sounds like hindsight interpretation of writings.
What would it have meant to the people who heard or read it first?

>
>>
>> We're not talking here about the opinions of people who lived after
>> Christ's time, but of contemporary people or institutions that made a
>> mention of him in their writings.
>
>
>NO WE ARENT! You stated above "no record of Christ's existence anywhere 
>except the
> New Testament." You are now CHANGING you claim and adding "FROM THE TIME 
>JESUS CHRIST  WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE LIVED"
>
>That is a DIFFERENT claim!
>
>But again you seem totally ignorant of history! You were furnished with 
>references. BGut let me ask you
>Wher are the references from the time of alexander the Great? Or from 
>Socrates or Plato?
>>
>> No Roman official, including Pontius Pilate, made any mention of him
>> or his trial.
>>
>> No contemporary writers made any mention of him.
>
>thallus did!
>
>
>You are adding "contemoprary" now! but you were given references!
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>And don't try to CHANGE the subject from historicity of Jesus to alleged
>>>Divinity of Jesus with your "let alone" comments!
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>and i told you all this before and you seemed to have ignored it!
>>>>>remember?
>>>>>
>>>>>Message-ID: 
>>>>>With few exceptions (such as Robert M. Price), virtually all scholars in
>>>>>the
>>>>>fields of biblical studies and history agree that Jesus was a Jewish
>>>>>teacher
>>>>>from Galilee who was regarded as a healer, was baptized by John the
>>>>>Baptist,
>>>>>was accused of sedition against the Roman Empire, and on the orders of
>>>>>Roman
>>>>>Governor Pontius Pilate was sentenced to death by crucifixion.
>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
>>>>> Raymond E. Brown, The Death of the Messiah: From Gethsemane to the 
>>>>> Grave
>>>>>(New York: Doubleday, Anchor Bible Reference Library 1994), p. 964; D. 
>>>>>A.
>>>>>Carson, et al., p. 50-56; Shaye J.D. Cohen, From the Maccabees to the
>>>>>Mishnah, Westminster Press, 1987, p. 78, 93, 105, 108; John Dominic
>>>>>Crossan,
>>>>>The Historical Jesus: The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant,
>>>>>HarperCollins, 1991, p. xi-xiii; Michael Grant, p. 34-35, 78, 166, 200;
>>>>>Paula Fredriksen, Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews, Alfred A. Knopf,
>>>>>1999, p. 6-7, 105-110, 232-234, 266; John P. Meier, vol. 1:68, 146, 199,
>>>>>278, 386, 2:726; E.P. Sanders, pp. 12-13; Geza Vermes, Jesus the Jew
>>>>>(Philadelphia: Fortress Press 1973), p. 37.; Paul L. Maier, In the
>>>>>Fullness
>>>>>of Time, Kregel, 1991, pp. 1, 99, 121, 171; N. T. Wright, The Meaning of
>>>>>Jesus: Two Visions, HarperCollins, 1998, pp. 32, 83, 100-102, 222; Ben
>>>>>Witherington III, pp. 12-20.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Jesus wrote nothing,
>>>>>He is recorded as having writing twice in the sand before he said "let 
>>>>>him
>>>>>without sin cast the first stone".
>>>>>
>>>>>>built nothing,
>>>>>It would be unlikley if he was the son of a carpenter that he built
>>>>>nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>>>founded nothing,
>>>>>
>>>>>Eh. He is also recorded as saying "On this rock I found my Church" to
>>>>>Peter.
>>>>>
>>>>>>and
>>>>>> simply was not noticed by anybody other than the people who wrote the
>>>>>> scriptures.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your point being? Was "Ozymandias King of Kings" noticed? Look up 
>>>>>"Sailing
>>>>>to Byzanthium".
>>>>>
>>>>>By the way it is also WRONG! Many people followed him who didn't write 
>>>>>at
>>>>>all. Just as many people followed others in that time also. ever heard 
>>>>>of
>>>>>simon Magnus , simon the magician? Or Barabbas?
>>>>>
>>>>>[end excerpt]>
>>>>>> Are all Roman Catholics as stupid as Mavis?
>>>>>
>>>>>Are all holocaust deniers as dishonest as you? you were shown all this 
>>>>>on
>>>>>april 2:Outside the accepted canon of Holy Scriptures from heretical or
>>>>>non
>>>>>cononical writings:
>>>>>
>>>>>The authors whose works are contained in the New Testament sometimes 
>>>>>quote
>>>>>from creeds, or confessions of faith, that obviously predate their
>>>>>writings.
>>>>>Scholars suppose that some of these creeds date to within a few years of
>>>>>Jesus' death, and were developed within the Christian community in
>>>>>Jerusalem.
>>>>> basic text is that of Oscar Cullmann, available in English in a
>>>>> translation
>>>>>by J. K. S. Reid titled, The Earliest Christian Confessions (London:
>>>>>Lutterworth, 1949)
>>>>>Jesus is a large factor in New Testament apocrypha, works excluded from
>>>>>the
>>>>>canon (Gnostic texts) as it developed because they were judged not to be
>>>>>inspired.
>>>>>
>>>>>Early Christian sources outside the New Testament also mention Jesus and
>>>>>details of his life. Important texts from the Apostolic Fathers are, to
>>>>>name
>>>>>just the most significant and ancient, Clement of Rome (c. 100),[33]
>>>>>Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107-110),[34] and Justin Martyr.[35]
>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_the_Trallians
>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_the_Smyrneans
>>>>>
>>>>>Papias of Hierapolis
>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papias
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Quadratus of Athens
>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratus_of_Athens
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Greco-Roman sources
>>>>>Passages relevant to Christianity in the works of four major 
>>>>>non-Christian
>>>>>writers of the late 1st and early 2nd centuries - Josephus, Tacitus,
>>>>>Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger.
>>>>>Josephus' writings, which document John the Baptist, James the Just, and
>>>>>possibly also Jesus, are of the most interest to scholars dealing with 
>>>>>the
>>>>>historicity of Jesus
>>>>>Josephus calls James "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ."
>>>>>http://www.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/works/files/ant-20.htm
>>>>>Tacitus, in his Annals written c. 115, mentions popular opinion about
>>>>>Christus, without historical details
>>>>>According to Suetonius, chapter 25, there occurred in Rome, during the
>>>>>reign
>>>>>of emperor Claudius (circa AD 50), "persistent disturbances ... at the
>>>>>instigation of Chrestus"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thallus, of whom very little is known, wrote a history from the Trojan 
>>>>>War
>>>>>to, according to Eusebius, 109 BC. No work of Thallus survives. There is
>>>>>one
>>>>>reference to Thallus having written about events beyond 109 BC. Julius
>>>>>Africanus, writing c. 221, while writing about the crucifixion of Jesus,
>>>>>mentioned Thallus. Thus:
>>>>>On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks
>>>>>were
>>>>>rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were
>>>>>thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in his third book of History, calls
>>>>>(as
>>>>>appears to me without reason) an eclipse of the sun.
>>>>>Julius Africanus, Extant Writings XVIII in Ante-Nicene Fathers, ed. A.
>>>>>Roberts and J. Donaldson (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1973) vol. VI, p. 130
>>>>>Lucian, a second century Romano-Syrian satirist, who wrote in Greek,
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day - the distinguished
>>>>>personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that
>>>>>account. You see, these misguided creatures start with the general
>>>>>conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the
>>>>>contempt
>>>>>of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and
>>>>>then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are 
>>>>>all
>>>>>brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of
>>>>>Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws
>>>>>Lucian, The Death of Peregrine, 11-13 in The Works of Lucian of 
>>>>>Samosata,
>>>>>translated by H. W. Fowler (Oxford: Clarendon, 1949) vol. 4
>>>>>
>>>>>Celsus wrote, about 180AD, a book against the Christians, which is now
>>>>>only
>>>>>known through Origen's refutation of it. Celsus apparently accused Jesus
>>>>>of
>>>>>being a child and a sorcerer Morton Smith, Jesus the Magician: Charlatan
>>>>>or
>>>>>Son of God? (1978) pp. 78-79.
>>>>>
>>>>>ther are Jewish records too but we ell skip them for now
>>>>>
>>>>>In The Historical Figure of Jesus, E.P. Sanders used Alexander the Great
>>>>>as
>>>>>a paradigm-the available sources tell us much about Alexander's deeds, 
>>>>>but
>>>>>nothing about his thoughts. "The sources for Jesus are better, however,
>>>>>than
>>>>>those that deal with Alexander" and "the superiority of evidence for 
>>>>>Jesus
>>>>>is seen when we ask what he thought."
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually I am reminded of Sanders comparison between jesus and alexander
>>>>>now. But more so the idea of the difference between Modern and Ancient
>>>>>history. Paul Barnett respected classicist and historian - "scholars of
>>>>>ancient history have always recognized the 'subjectivity' factor in 
>>>>>their
>>>>>available sources" and "have so few sources available compared to their
>>>>>modern counterparts that they will gladly seize whatever scraps of
>>>>>information that are at hand." IN "Is the New Testament History?", p.1.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:09 EDT 2009
Article: 2012558 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <6fl9v4h4f6unoel6rnjor5lor70kkig5bd@4ax.com>
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:31:46 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:7q59v492mch54c5vgncnmolqfmbcpu2tkf@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:54:16 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>news:Yc6dnVwqf6aL7WzUnZ2dnVY3go-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>> news:k632v41bh6h81ulbq1ort0fo1adrg0avdp@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:31:05 -0400, in
>>>>> , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:53:24 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>> >news:240vu4dae18c98gkkc61ba3m8gs5u0f0if@4ax.com...
>>>>>> >> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:46:12 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>> >>  wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>> >>>news:28eBl.115130$9j5.6247@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>> >>>> On 4/2/2009 4:17 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:22:10 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>> >>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>> >>>>>> news:1qq4t41c7o2r9n0v9h33uph60bvnh8gmrf@4ax.com...
>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:32:48 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>> >>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> news:CsmdnZPaZOVxpl7UnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jesus was a Jew himself.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you sure about that?  You can prove that?
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The historicity of Jesus is an established field of research.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But if anyone believes in Jesus Christ existing in the past
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> then it
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> is
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ludicrous to believe he was NOT a Jew.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If one is claiming that Jesus Christ never existed then
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> claiming he
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> was or
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> was not a Jew is pointless since one assigning an attribute 
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> something
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> which does not exist - a bit like saying the dragon was BLUE.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> pointless to argue about whether they are blue red or yellow 
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> if
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> your
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> main
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> point is that dragons never existed.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As it happens though the historicity of Jesus is as 
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> established
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (or
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> more established) as say Alexander the Great for example.
>>>>>> >>>>>>> Actually no, since lots of people saw or experienced Alexander
>>>>>> >>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great,
>>>>>> >>>>>> Really?
>>>>>> >>>>>> And your evidence is?
>>>>>> >>>>>> Lots of people also saw and experienced Jesus by the way.
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> Nonsense. Jesus wrote nothing, built nothing, founded nothing, 
>>>>>> >>>>> and
>>>>>> >>>>> simply was not noticed by anybody other than the people who 
>>>>>> >>>>> wrote
>>>>>> >>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>>> scriptures.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Sure got popular though, didn't he?  I guess you denier trash are
>>>>>> >>>> envious.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>He is recorded as having written TWICE. that isnt to say he did not
>>>>>> >>>write
>>>>>> >>>more. the occasion was before he said "let him without sin cast the
>>>>>> >>>first
>>>>>> >>>stone". i have already posted references by several people who were
>>>>>> >>>not
>>>>>> >>>Christians and from others who were regarded as hetetics who wrote
>>>>>> >>>about
>>>>>> >>>Jesus. Certainly MORE than anything produced on socrates Plato or
>>>>>> >>>alexander.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> The ONLY references to Jesus ANYWHERE are in the New Testament. 
>>>>>> >> There
>>>>>> >> is no independent verification that such a person ever actually
>>>>>> >> existed. The existence of Jesus is something taken on faith.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >WRONG! You have ignored the evidence alredy given to you in this very
>>>>>> >discussion!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I suggest that you write a LONG letter to the various seminaries
>>>>>> around the world and show them the error of their ways. There is zero
>>>>>> independent evidence of Christ's existence, let alone his deity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since his deity is a question of faith,
>>>>
>>>> As is yours, old feller. And your fellow Holocaustians.
>>>
>>>I never made any claims about deities!
>>>
>>>YOU claimed no evidence for Jesus except the writings in the Bible.
>>>You were WRONG!
>>>
>>>The Historicity of Jesus is an established field of history - unlike
>>>holocaust denial!
>>
>> This sounds like Roman Catholic hocus pocus. No Roman historian or
>> government official of antiquity mentioned Jesus.
>
>Yes they did and you have been shown where. But you are CHANGING the claim 
>now from "no evidence outside of the Bible" which you were shown to "no 
>evidence form a roman official or roman historian" .

What part of INDEPENDENT do you not understand? Proof would need to
come from some writer not connected with the Christian movement, since
that would not count as independent verification.

>
>In fact I challenge you to produce any extant written references to someone 
>who might have been Alexander the great. I am certain you won't find any 
>(even though I am aware of one)
>But I don't see you claiming Alexander the Great didn't exist even though he 
>was an Emperor and Jesus just a carpenters son. Even less evidence for 
>Alexander than Jesus.
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:09 EDT 2009
Article: 2012561 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hungary plans to penalize Holocaust denial
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 13:03:02 -0700 (PDT), mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote:

>>
>> That's what the pompous bastards in Brussels keep telling German
>> officials. Despite the fact that German-speaking people are the
>> largest group within the EU, German is not apparently "officially" an
>> official language, but a previous German chancellor told the gnomes in
>> Brussels that if the document were important, and if they wanted
>> German officials to act on it, then it had better be in German. That
>> got the message across, and subsequent EU epistles were in German.
>
>
>When EU was structured it had 5 official languages ,
>French
>German,
>Dutch,
>Italian ,
>English
>
>mirjam

German was never an official language of the EU and unless they have
recently added it, still isn't.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:10 EDT 2009
Article: 2012807 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:11:57 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message 
>news:e3e9v4lpmq6877h659oln9vr1fbeaoour7@4ax.com...
>> In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Here is what a leftist wrote:
>>>"Thousands of homosexuals were thrown into the Nazis'  concentration
>>>camps, where most perished.
>>
>> Interesting, considering the homosexual background of the nazi party.
>
>You can prove this, of course?
>
Klaus is an equal-opportunity bigot. Proof is not something he does.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:10 EDT 2009
Article: 2012809 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For eugen holman
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:34:49 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>And just who are you Gord. Have you figured out who you are screwing next.

Poor gourd is such a twit. The German citizenship law has nothing to
do with Nazis and was already in place in the 19th century.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:qam9v49kunp0kp60d0pctjg9bslla8s5md@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 15:58:42 -0400, in
>> , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>  wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> The German people consists of all people born to parents who were
>>> German citizens. That automatically makes you a German citizen,
>>> regardless of where you were born. Being born in Germany entitles you
>>> to nothing. You are German only because your parents were German.
>>> German citizenship is based on blood, not on place of birth.
>>>
>>> That is why it is almost impossible for aliens to obtain German
>>> citizenship, but Volksdeutsche from Rumania get instant German
>>> citizenship despite having been absent for more than 850 years.
>>
>> I can just hear the Horst Wessel Lied in the background.  The Fuehrer
>> would be proud.
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:11 EDT 2009
Article: 2012811 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hungary plans to penalize Holocaust denial
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:30:44 -0700 (PDT), mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote:

>>
>> >When EU was structured it had 5 official languages ,
>> >French
>> >German,
>> >Dutch,
>> >Italian ,
>> >English
>>
>> >mirjam
>>
>> German was never an official language of the EU and unless they have
>> recently added it, still isn't.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>????????? (bg)
>?eština (cs)
>dansk (da)
>Deutsch (de)
>eesti keel (et)
>???????? (el)
>English (en)
>espańol (es)
>français (fr)
>italiano (it)
>latviešu valoda (lv)
>lietuvi? kalba (lt)
>magyar (hu)
>Malti (mt)
>Nederlands (nl)
>polski (pl)
>portuguęs (pt)
>român? (ro)
>sloven?ina (sk)
>slovenš?ina (sl)
>suomi (fi)
>svenska (sv)
>
>English (en)European Commission MultilingualismLanguages of
>EuropeOfficial EU languages
> Who we are
>Our Commissioner
>Our mission What we do
>EU Language Policy
>Funding
>Languages of Europe
>History and languages families Official EU languages
>Eurobarometer Survey Regional and minority languages Sign Languages
>Language Teaching
>Language Learning
>European Language Label
>Networks
>
>Languages of Europe
>Official EU languages
>The European Union has 23 official languages. They are: Bulgarian,
>Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Estonian, Finnish, French, German,
>Greek, Hungarian, Irish, Italian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Maltese,
>Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Slovak, Slovene, Spanish and Swedish.
>
>The first Community Regulation determining official languages was
>passed in 1958. It specified Dutch, French, German and Italian as the
>first official languages of the EU, these being the languages of the
>Member States at that time. Since then, as more countries have become
>part of the EU, the number of official languages has increased.
>However, there are fewer official languages than Member States, as
>some share common languages. In Belgium, for example, the official
>languages are Dutch, French and German, whilst in Cyprus the majority
>of the population speaks Greek, which has official status.
>
>This is the source of the piece i pasted here for you ,
>http://ec.europa.eu/education/languages/languages-of-europe/doc135_en.htm
>
>I am copying this part again for your knowlledge
>
>The first Community Regulation determining official languages was
>passed in 1958. It specified Dutch, French, German and Italian as the
>first official languages of the EU,
>
>Did you read that THE FIRST COMMUNITY REGULATION DETERMINING OFFICIAL
>LANUAGES was passed in 1958 ,,,,,,,,,it specified DUTCH FRENCH GERMAN
>And ITALIAN .........
>mirjam

Well, for some reason, documents sent to Germany were not in German
and the local authorities complained. After the complaint, documents
were sent in German. The German texts I read said that EU documents
were not normally available in German, so I'm not sure what "official
language" means in that context.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:11 EDT 2009
Article: 2012815 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Torture by U.S.A. during World War 2
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On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 04:52:07 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Just in case you do not know the French did use German prisoners of war as 
>slave labour.

The idiots are doubtlessly aware but they cannot admit to it since it
would conflict with their Germany-is-always-responsible model for WW1
and WW2.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"I'll Always Be 27/04/09"  wrote in message 
>news:aussies_suck-F25532.21483826042009@aries.weretis.net...
>> In article
>> ,
>> "Don Phillipson"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you know of any incidents of torture
>> by the U.S.A. during World War2 against
>> members of the Axis?
>>
>> 
>>
>>> 4.  By contrast, French army intelligence is known to have
>>> tortured Algerian prisoners approx. 1955-65, cf. Henri Alleg's
>>> book "La Question" etc.  There seems adequate documentation
>>> about purposes and methods.   Some of this suggests that
>>> French torturers learned from German examples during WW2.
>>> None appears to suggest French torturers learned from US or
>>> British examples during WW2. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:11 EDT 2009
Article: 2013234 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:38:57 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>news:26ad5$49f59a2b$596480f8$9758@news.upc.ie...
>>
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> news:ftk9v4pvi7c33reejkug2gql8snht54uqt@4ax.com...
>>>I repeat, there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except the
>>> New Testament. If you find some, you will become world famous
>>> overnight.
>
>WELL?
>
>Now that you were shown it what have you to say? 
>
You haven't shown me anything worth squat. Church babble centuries
after the fact doesn't cut it. You have no independent evidence.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:12 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hungary plans to penalize Holocaust denial
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 01:46:54 -0700 (PDT), mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote:

>>
>> Well, for some reason, documents sent to Germany were not in German
>> and the local authorities complained. After the complaint, documents
>> were sent in German. The German texts I read said that EU documents
>> were not normally available in German, so I'm not sure what "official
>> language" means in that context.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>I don`t know what the source of your above story is , but it
>contradicts the EU TRANSLATION POLICY.  From the begining their
>translations were very exact, checked and rechecked , and the above
>story seems more like an Urban Legend. Complicated organizations, and
>bog Multy National organizations like the Eu , seem to be a rich soil
>for such fables.
>By Eu rules ALL EU documents were sent to Eu Members.
>mirjam

Well, if what you say is true, then Helmut Kohl got really worked up
over nothing. I can't remember anymore where I read the article. I'll
see if I can dig a bit further, but I'm pretty sure that in the early
years of the EU, the British and French made sure that Germany was
relegated to second class status until it became clear that they no
longer had the power to play that game.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:12 EDT 2009
Article: 2013242 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews Bitching About Wagner's 'Ring'
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On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 07:29:41 -0700 (PDT), jn25b 
wrote:

>On Apr 28, 8:10 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> "ÇDoügßT"  schreef in berichtnews:08DJl.6243$Lr6.3649@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> >  wrote in message
>> >news:7494ef66-84b5-4ca0-b100-c3d8ef2e99e0@z23g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Apr 28, 11:07 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> >> "B.H. Cramer"  schreef in
>> >> berichtnews:NNmdnbxjb8UOK2vUnZ2dnVY3go-dnZ2d@giganews.com...> They're
>> >> good, aren't they? Whine about anything.
>>
>> >> > Should we filthy goyim begin whining about cohen's ring?
>>
>> >> yes, it is amazing to see that they are now whining about almost
>> >> everything
>> >> they can whine about must be in their genes
>> > Herr Heinrich
>> > Interesting comment , coming from the person who`s only fun in life is
>> > copying any piece of news/anecdotes etc that has the word Jew or
>> > Israel in it ,,,
>> > How many hours a day do you spend on this , is the salary good ?
>> > mirjam
>>
>> > ********************
>> > He's probably a Eurotrash welfare leech, which means
>> > he's reached his nirvana of personal accomplishment.
>>
>> what kind iof an answer is this, boy? if you cannot sticj to facts you
>> better keep your mouth shut so your ingnorance would be less vissible.
>
>Note that the German Resistance to Hitler was willing to deliver
>Hitler-in-a-box
>to the Western Allies, in return for a reasonable peace with Germany,
>But the offer was refused.  Which tells us that the war wasn't about
>Hitler,

Churchill said as much on at least one occasion. It didn't really
matter who was in charge in Germany as long as Germany was powerful
enough to be a dangerous competitor to Britain.

>It was about industrial Germany, and the economic threat that Germany
>was to the British Empire. google-search "The greatest war crime"
>A good book is Wedemeyer Reports


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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:02:55 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:jA7Kl.238816$UR4.55594@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...
>> On 4/29/2009 1:30 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>> news:ifdfv4pf4pnjhn0qdqtg150sva8g90vcum@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:46:56 +1000, in 
>>>> <2ZidnfbLgdbpKWvUnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:kllcv4hc8ob7moit5asj7nuhlkrp08gqfq@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:09:57 +1000, in 
>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:2p69v4lp93oda5d3um74qpeeb72hg6fk5q@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 05:58:07 -0700, in 
>>>>>>>> <3hm8v4lqp2ll2rekc18fnf5a383eue2cqm@4ax.com>, Klaus
>>>>>>>> Schadenfreude  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns Tim Miller
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Klaus Schadenfreude" 
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>>>> news:5is6v416ktfu2dkdgqbunkdig3o5qd6pth@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns Topaz 
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Kevin MacDonald
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current situation in the United States is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really an awesome display of Jewish power and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> influence.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ____ "Let's see: The Jews control the world. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nazis are illiterate, unemployable pedophiles. Hmmm, whom do *I* 
>>>>>>>>>>>> want to throw in my lot with...?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>  -Chris Morton, August 2001
>>>>>>>>>>> He's a coon, ferfuckssake.
>>>>>>>>>> So, basically, EVERYONE kicks your girlie ass?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> LOL!!
>>>>>>>>> He's afraid of a coon? I think the nazi-wannabe club
>>>>>>>>> needs a new spokesman!
>>>>>>>> They are afraid of their shadows.
>>>>>>> Coons are ALL shadow. They scare themselves silly.
>>>>>> Ben has never met an insulting comment he didn't like.
>>>>> What insult? Where?
>>>>
>>>> You are quite simply revolting.
>>>
>>> Oh dear. An insult from the wee tooler complaining of another's
>>> insulting behaviour.
>>
>> I can see why you and Ebersdorf get along so well.  He is a traitor to
>> his people and a coward and you are an antisemite, a racist and a coward.
>
>Anti-semite - I don't think I am but the yids have so labelled me - I'll 
>wear it with pride
>Racist - Bullshit.
>Coward - Bullshit.
>
>I see you as a traitor to Canada and the white race. I see you as a craven 
>coward. I also see you as a being racist, given you're more than happy to 
>support the ethnocentric, racist yids in everything they say and do.
>
>You're also a hypocrite and a teller/creator of porkies.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>> 

LOL

There seems to be no end to mcfee's stupidity.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:13 EDT 2009
Article: 2014884 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <3gjjv4908ljph6d45g4gbljr8k2e5urbt6@4ax.com>
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:03:51 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:0C7Kl.238825$UR4.172271@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...
>> On 4/29/2009 1:30 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>> news:akdfv4p4r27i1lqrot89ee8n2qltvdj7gs@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:48:24 +1000, in 
>>>> , "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:mamcv451876cq0e2k0sam893kad8j7375j@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:26:36 +1000, in 
>>>>>> <8MKdnRixd4LyC2jUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:ks69v458dao66o1pp6v1v707t9leoj17aj@4ax.com...
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You have no comment to make about the desperation of
>>>>>>>>> Poland, Britain et al to make war with Germany?
>>>>>>>> What desperation?  Why would Poland be desperate to make
>>>>>>>> war with the most powerful country on the face of the
>>>>>>>> planet, one that would utterly destroy them before their
>>>>>>>> allies could even mobilize?  Do you morons even read what
>>>>>>>> you post before you post it?  Of course you don't; you just
>>>>>>>> copy and paste.
>>>>> Hahahahahahaha. Dickhead. It's what you and the other Oy Vey do 
>>>>> endlessly. All your support comes from your own sites.
>>>> That was about as irrelevant as you could have been.
>>>
>>> Not to those who know what you're up to, old feller.
>>
>> Nice troll try.  However, you haven't answered the question yet.  Here
>> it is again:
>>
>> Why would Poland be desperate to make war with the most powerful country
>> on the face of the planet, one that would utterly destroy them before
>> their allies could even mobilize?
>
>I have no idea. None at all. Why does ANY country make war? It's never based 
>on commonsense or logic.
>
>>  Do you morons even read what you post
>> before you post it?
>
>Et tu, sunschein.

Polish papers in August of 1939 talked about Polish forces
overthrowing the Wehrmacht and marching on to Berlin unopposed. That
was their perception, crazy perhaps, but their perception
nevertheless. Germany was a significant player on the world stage, but
hardly the world's greatest power. The Poles apparently thought they
could quickly win.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:13 EDT 2009
Article: 2014886 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:31:34 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:d5efv4lqrhkjpo9hk5vt5estof8v09d1sg@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:51:33 +1000, in
>> <1pGdnaB3fYsUKGvUnZ2dnVY3goSdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> news:1vmcv414pamkkg2d662h9df94a7jgspufh@4ax.com...
>>> > On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:31:10 +1000, in
>>> > , "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >> news:rqc9v41ovqluib2rsflfpbljmmsetmonol@4ax.com...
>>> >> > On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:02:43 +1000, in
>>> >> > , "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >> >  wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >> >> news:srs6v4hgu8gbsf7miqg3i0cg195c3ocgsp@4ax.com...
>>> >> >> > On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 15:37:10 -0400, in
>>> >> >> > <7cp6v4dani6q70magr2ssvpd30slbr9m3b@4ax.com>, Johannes von 
>>> >> >> > Ebersdorf
>>> >> >> >  wrote:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:09:52 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >> >> >>  wrote:
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >"Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message
>>> >> >> >> >news:82883139-83fe-4ffe-bb95-78ca8fcf94c2@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>>> >> >> >> >On Apr 23, 3:31 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> Here are some quotes from "With Hitler on the Road to Power" 
>>> >> >> >> >> by
>>> >> >> >> >> Dr.
>>> >> >> >> >> Otto Dietrich
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >>   Hitler's road to power was a road to ruin.
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >Thanks to the yids.
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> Doing nothing was already the road to ruin, so Hitler didn't 
>>> >> >> >> make
>>> >> >> >> it
>>> >> >> >> any worse. Without WW2, Germany would still be paying ruinous
>>> >> >> >> "reparations" for WW1. Today, it is a prosperous state on about 
>>> >> >> >> 75%
>>> >> >> >> of
>>> >> >> >> the territory of the Empire. The old German saying "Besser ein 
>>> >> >> >> Ende
>>> >> >> >> mit Schrecken, als ein Schrecken ohne Ende" still applies. 
>>> >> >> >> (Better
>>> >> >> >> an
>>> >> >> >> ending with horrors than a horror without end)
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > So you are happy that Hitler caused the slaughter of 7,233,000
>>> >> >> > Germans
>>> >> >> > because now Germany is prosperous.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> He does not say that at all, gourd.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > That's exactly what he said.
>>> >>
>>> >> No he did not.
>>> >
>>> > But he did.  Some German patriot that sick coward is.
>>>
>>> He did NOT say that.
>>
>> But he did.
>
>No he did not. You're putting words into his mouth.
>
>How very yid of you.
>
>
Distortion and misrepresentation are what mcfee/mcvay are all about.
That is exactly why I don't bother reading their stuff anymore. I
basically know what they're going to babble about before they say it.
They are nothing if not predictable.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:15 EDT 2009
Article: 2014888 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Smith" and the Auschwitz camp complex. 13 reasons to not swallow the HOAX.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:10:27 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>; "please"  wrote in message 
>news:gt6bse$fem$1@pcls4.std.com...
>> In article ,
>> B.H. Cramer  wrote:
>>
>>> There are photos of everything else from WWII,
>>
>> There is not one single photo of Soviet soldiers either
>> "killing" or "raping" German civilians.  None.  Zero.
>> Zilch.  Nada.  Nothing.
>>
>
>Or of Jesus or Socrates or Alexander the Great! 
>
LOL, Mavis, you don't suppose that part of the reason for that was
that photography wasn't invented until the middle of the 19th century,
well before the time of Jesus, Socrates, or Alexander. Of these three,
only Socrates and Alexander have independent verification of their
existence.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:15 EDT 2009
Article: 2014889 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <9880d$49f0578c$596480f8$1651@news.upc.ie>  <5cd19$49f0d728$596480f8$22368@news.upc.ie>  <654f2$49f4b6b9$596480f8$5492@news.upc.ie>  <26ad5$49f59a2b$596480f8$9758@news.upc.ie>   <93114$49f8113e$596480f8$7595@news.upc.ie>
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On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:35:26 +0100, MavisBeacon
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:38:57 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>>> news:26ad5$49f59a2b$596480f8$9758@news.upc.ie...
>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:ftk9v4pvi7c33reejkug2gql8snht54uqt@4ax.com...
>>>>> I repeat, there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except the
>>>>> New Testament. If you find some, you will become world famous
>>>>> overnight.
>>> WELL?
>>>
>>> Now that you were shown it what have you to say? 
>>>
>> You haven't shown me anything worth squat. 
>
>REally? Then why don't you go through the actual evidence I supplied you 
>with and show how non Christian historians writing in the latter part of 
>the first and early second century are not "contemporary" to Jesus who 
>was executed in about 40 AD?
>
>>Church babble 
>
>The evidence I supplied you with includes Roman (i.e. the Roman empire 
>and NOT the Roman Catholic Church) and non christian and non Roman 
>Catholic Church sources. All OUTSIDE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT!
>Your claim was "there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except 
>the New Testament."
>
>Your claim was wrong!
>
>
> >centuries
>> after the fact doesn't cut it.
>
>
>In addition to the above contemporary evidence you have also been given 
>references ranging in history. I have asked you whether you can produce 
>any writings contemporary to alaxender the great or socrates. You have 
>utterlly FAILED to do so! By your reasoning alexander or Socrates never 
>existed!

Nonsense. Both Socrates and Alexander have huge personal
accomplishments that persisted for centuries after their deaths. By
contrast, Jesus wrote nothing, built nothing, and only speaks via
disciples who wrote at least half a century after his death.
>
>
>  >You have no independent evidence.
>
>It is listed above. roman historians from the time of Jesus. Jewish 
>ones. Heretics and athists in addition to christians wrote about Jesus.
>
>You have produced NOTHING about Alexander or Socrates from their time.

I didn't, they did.

>You have No independent evidence of their existance!

A whole raft of cities founded by Alexander are ample proof. Persian
chronicles prove the existence of Alexander. Athenian chronicles prove
the existence of Alexander and of Socrates.

>According to you alexander and socrates never existed!

More nonsense by Mavis.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:16 EDT 2009
Article: 2014890 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <9yCJl.24611$Db2.22407@edtnps83> <02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu>    <4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie>
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:58:48 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you know 
>>>> >>> that
>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is the case 
>>>> >>> you
>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>> >
>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of shit and
>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, and 
>>>> > visit
>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for 'denying
>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>
>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be arrested in
>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>> >
>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say the
>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>
>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much noise
>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found that 
>>>> out -
>>>> the hard way.
>>>
>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>
>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>
>Who are Butz and Finkelsein 

Holy fucking Moly, woman, do some research. Why are you wasting our
time?





>, what academic credentials do they have and how 
>were they "canned" for questioning the Holocaust? 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:16 EDT 2009
Article: 2014891 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <9yCJl.24611$Db2.22407@edtnps83> <02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu>    <4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie> <46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com> 
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:55:53 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>news:46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>> news:4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie...
>>>
>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>>> news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you know 
>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is the 
>>>>>> >>> case you
>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of shit 
>>>>>> > and
>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, and 
>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for 
>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be arrested 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say the
>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much 
>>>>>> noise
>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found that 
>>>>>> out -
>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>
>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>
>>> Who are Butz and Finkelsein , what academic credentials do they have and 
>>> how were they "canned" for questioning the Holocaust?
>>
>> You really are as dumb as a box of rocks, girlie.
>
>You mentioned the names Butz and Finkelsein as cases of academics being 
>canned and you can't actually support your own claim. If you can't support 
>your own claim don't try to attack the person asking you for the supporting 
>evidence. It is a dead giveaway that you are a loser. 

I know and understand what Ben is talking about, so why don't you?

You really ARE clueless. Go away.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:16 EDT 2009
Article: 2014895 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:57:56 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:mr2iv49bmkbs4qm2osgja2ionq9v28sj78@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:18:32 +1000, in
>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>  wrote in message
>>> news:76df6ae2-83f5-4f39-bec9-a4eb2e4c46ea@w31g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>> > On Apr 24, 11:31 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>> >>  wrote in message
>>> >>
>>> >> news:88fd0006-6851-4aa4-ac9e-46eeeb8b5d81@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > On Apr 23, 11:48 am, "B.H. Cramer"  
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >>  wrote in message
>>> >>
>>> >> >>news:c78c521a-b753-4188-a6fa-b18bef2003a0@g1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>>> >>
>>> >> >> > On Apr 4, 2:17 am, Anonymous  
>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >> >> The biggest victims of the 'holocaust' are the German people,
>>> >> >> >> saddled
>>> >> >> >> with reparations to worthless kikes.
>>> >>
>>> >> >> >> The second biggest victim is the idea of historical truth and
>>> >> >> >> academic
>>> >> >> >> integrity.
>>> >>
>>> >> >> > The Germans screwed everyone in occupied Europe and planned to
>>> >> >> > convert....
>>> >>
>>> >> >> Oh god. Another knob who has only read yid history.
>>> >>
>>> >> > I also note B H Cramer does not give a profile - does not mean he is
>>> >> > guilty of anything but we do not know how he gets to his denials or
>>> >> > why.
>>> >>
>>> >> Denial of what? Elaborate please.
>>> >
>>> > I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier,
>>>
>>> I really don't give a flying fuck what your opinion is, sunschein.
>>>
>>> I don't believe the yid version of the Holocaust(tm).
>>>
>>> I'm in good company, actually, given there are only a few million of you
>>> clowns in the world.
>>
>> There are only a few dozen of you morons.
>
>Keep thinking that, gourd. It's that type of chutzpah, jingoism and 
>braggadocio that got the yids' arses handed to them on a platter in 2006.
>
Poor mcfee seems to be into self-deception. If their were only a few
dozen holocaust heretics, nobody would pay them any attention. The
shrill hysteria characteristic of mcfee/mcvay/RJ11/... suggests the
opposite. Their name-calling, threats, and general hysteria are a
desperate attempt to keep the sinking ship afloat.

The gas chamber story has retreated from all of Germany in 1945 to a
small cluster of camps in present-day Poland, and even there the story
is on very thin ice.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:17 EDT 2009
Article: 2014900 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Mr. Holman: Holocaust - Definition
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On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:12:17 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "Truthseeker"
> wrote:
>
>> Intersting Eugene last nigh i did watch a show about holocaust where a 
>> holocaust survivor but on a show.She glaims to be 65 years old and did watch 
>> the nazies took her mother away killing here in a gas camber, Tell us how 
>> old was she in 1945.
>
>A person who is 65 years now could have been born in May, 1943 and thus
>almost two years old when the events in question happened. People born in
>May 1943 will be turning 66 soon.

A child of under two would not be in a position to know what she
claims to know. It is essentially assumption and supposition on her
part. The fact that an infant, such as her, survived casts
considerable doubt on the whole narrative.

>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman
>.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:17 EDT 2009
Article: 2014902 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Mr. Holman: Holocaust - Definition
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:29:34 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-2904092112170001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article , "Truthseeker"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Intersting Eugene last nigh i did watch a show about holocaust where a
>>> holocaust survivor but on a show.She glaims to be 65 years old and did 
>>> watch
>>> the nazies took her mother away killing here in a gas camber, Tell us how
>>> old was she in 1945.
>>
>> A person who is 65 years now could have been born in May, 1943 and thus
>> almost two years old when the events in question happened.
>
>And they would not have a bloody clue about what happened then. Two year 
>olds simply do not remember anything from that far back. Unless you're a 
>yid, of course.

The woman "remembers" what she was told and indoctrinated, not what
she saw.

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:17 EDT 2009
Article: 2014904 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Mr. Holman: Holocaust - Definition
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:47:42 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-2904092112170001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
>
>> >
>> > A person who is 65 years now could have been born in May, 1943 and thus
>> > almost two years old when the events in question happened.
>> 
>> And they would not have a bloody clue about what happened then. Two year 
>> olds simply do not remember anything from that far back. Unless you're a 
>> yid, of course.
>
>A two-year old could very well remember being suddenly deprived of its
>mother. That would be a traumatic experience.

She would not know how or why the mother vanished, however, except
that she was indoctrinated later with the "official" story and she is
now retelling that story.

>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:18 EDT 2009
Article: 2014907 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Mr. Holman: Holocaust - Definition
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:56:48 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-3004090747420001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
>
>> >
>> > A two-year old could very well remember being suddenly deprived of its
>> > mother.
>> 
>> Very unlikely to be the case, holmanstein. Unless, of course, the kid was a 
>> yid.
>
>My first concrete memory is from the age of eighteen months. I climbed out
>of my crib, fell to the floor, and woke up in a strange place with strange
>people in white clothing around me. I had been taken to the hospital
>unconscious.
>
>Being deprived of one's mother at two is arguably more traumatic than
>falling and winding up in the hospital at one and a half.

She is still very unlikely to have "remembered" gas chambers, only
that her mother didn't return. The "gas chamber" stories are things
she heard later.


>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:18 EDT 2009
Article: 2014911 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Torture by U.S.A. during World War 2
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:35:53 -0700 (PDT), george 
wrote:

>On Apr 29, 8:10 am, ZuLu  wrote:
>
>> The British had special places to that function. It is highly probable that US forces
>> had something similar.
>
>You'd like to produce evidence to back up that claim?
>Or is that just another attempt to change the subject from the nazi
>deathcamps ?

Oh get off the pot George, there was nothing that the Nazis did that
the allies didn't also do, and generally in much greater measure.
There was nothing noble or enlightened about the allies. Your
glofification efforts are dishonest and hollow.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:19 EDT 2009
Article: 2014913 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Honsik gets 5 years; jews happy
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:24:10 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>And the jews will not stop till they silence the whole world.

They seem to be making that attempt, but it is an effort of
desperation that will probably end in failure.

>kk
>
>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:75q3sgF19c6nqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Truthseeker"  schreef in bericht 
>> news:iYIJl.24747$Db2.22774@edtnps83...
>>> Five jears in jail for what. Is this done to silence a whole nation 
>>> forever while the holocaust invention racket keeps on going.
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>> germany and austria have been caught by the balls by the jews !!!!!!! 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:19 EDT 2009
Article: 2014915 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews Bitching About Wagner's 'Ring'
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:57:03 -0700, "ÇDoügßT"  wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:75omtmF19dmpgU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "ÇDoügßT"  schreef in bericht 
>> news:QxFJl.25735$Ws1.13917@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>>> news:75odhuF14rv6dU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> "ÇDoügßT"  schreef in bericht 
>>>> news:08DJl.6243$Lr6.3649@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>>>>  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:7494ef66-84b5-4ca0-b100-c3d8ef2e99e0@z23g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Apr 28, 11:07 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  schreef in 
>>>>>> berichtnews:NNmdnbxjb8UOK2vUnZ2dnVY3go-dnZ2d@giganews.com...> They're 
>>>>>> good, aren't they? Whine about anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Should we filthy goyim begin whining about cohen's ring?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yes, it is amazing to see that they are now whining about almost 
>>>>>> everything
>>>>>> they can whine about must be in their genes
>>>>> Herr Heinrich
>>>>> Interesting comment , coming from the person who`s only fun in life is
>>>>> copying any piece of news/anecdotes etc that has the word Jew or
>>>>> Israel in it ,,,
>>>>> How many hours a day do you spend on this , is the salary good ?
>>>>> mirjam
>>>>>
>>>>> ********************
>>>>> He's probably a Eurotrash welfare leech, which means
>>>>> he's reached his nirvana of personal accomplishment.
>>>>>
>>>> what kind iof an answer is this, boy? if you cannot sticj to facts you 
>>>> better keep your mouth shut so your ingnorance would be less vissible.
>>>
>>> You whine exactly like a Eurotrash bitch. I'm sure you must be a dirty
>>> Slav.
>>>
>> here in europe we still think and countries and every citizen doesnot feel 
>> himself a european so the term eurotrash is not correct. for your info i 
>> am a full blooded aryan with blue eyes, fair hair and a height of 1m80cm
>
>Are you sure you're not just a sub-human slave pretending to be
>an aryan?
>
>I thought aryans came from China? 
>
Do things usually move from where there are none to a location where
there are some? That reverses the usual trend in nature, where things
tend to move from high concentration to lower concentration.

European physical characteristics are tuned to conditions in Europe,
so it seems rather most probable that local conditions acted as the
crucible to create the characteristics specific to Europeans.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:19 EDT 2009
Article: 2014916 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews Bitching About Wagner's 'Ring'
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <2omjv416r3jtjr2n0qvoij97ji36h1p02h@4ax.com>
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On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:27:31 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>"ÇDoügßT"  schreef in bericht 
>news:liQJl.15417$hc1.13528@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>> news:75omtmF19dmpgU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "ÇDoügßT"  schreef in bericht 
>>> news:QxFJl.25735$Ws1.13917@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:75odhuF14rv6dU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "ÇDoügßT"  schreef in bericht 
>>>>> news:08DJl.6243$Lr6.3649@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>>>>>  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:7494ef66-84b5-4ca0-b100-c3d8ef2e99e0@z23g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> On Apr 28, 11:07 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  schreef in 
>>>>>>> berichtnews:NNmdnbxjb8UOK2vUnZ2dnVY3go-dnZ2d@giganews.com...> They're 
>>>>>>> good, aren't they? Whine about anything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Should we filthy goyim begin whining about cohen's ring?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yes, it is amazing to see that they are now whining about almost 
>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>> they can whine about must be in their genes
>>>>>> Herr Heinrich
>>>>>> Interesting comment , coming from the person who`s only fun in life is
>>>>>> copying any piece of news/anecdotes etc that has the word Jew or
>>>>>> Israel in it ,,,
>>>>>> How many hours a day do you spend on this , is the salary good ?
>>>>>> mirjam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ********************
>>>>>> He's probably a Eurotrash welfare leech, which means
>>>>>> he's reached his nirvana of personal accomplishment.
>>>>>>
>>>>> what kind iof an answer is this, boy? if you cannot sticj to facts you 
>>>>> better keep your mouth shut so your ingnorance would be less vissible.
>>>>
>>>> You whine exactly like a Eurotrash bitch. I'm sure you must be a dirty
>>>> Slav.
>>>>
>>> here in europe we still think and countries and every citizen doesnot 
>>> feel himself a european so the term eurotrash is not correct. for your 
>>> info i am a full blooded aryan with blue eyes, fair hair and a height of 
>>> 1m80cm
>>
>> Are you sure you're not just a sub-human slave pretending to be
>> an aryan?
>>
>> I thought aryans came from China?
>> why do you americans always have to proof that you are stupid? did you 
>> participate in a rodeo show and fell of a horse/steer on too many 
>> ocassions? 

Americans are the most ignorant among the ignorant. For Americans,
ignorance is a badge of honour and distinction.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2014917 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Destroy 100 houses for each rocket fired
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On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:13:03 -0700, "ÇDoügßT"  wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:6uoj25Fg3htnU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Shas Chairman Eli Yishai demands a harsh response against the rockets 
>> fired at Israel from Gaza: Yishai said Monday that Israel should set a 
>> price tag for any rocket launched by Hamas.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Even if they fire at an open area or into the sea, we must damage their 
>> infrastructures and destroy 100 houses. That's when it will end," he said.
>>
>
>I'd be doing a lot more than that. Of course I wouldn't start w/the
>Gaza Shite -- I'd turn Tehran, Pigistan and Soddy Barbaria into
>nuclear wastelands first THEN deport the palesimians to the
>Sinai.

Why are you complaining about alleged Nazis, Doug, when you are
yourself so much like the allied Nazi stereotype and then some?

>
>>
>>
>> Speaking at the 9th Annual Herzliya Conference, Yishai referred to the 
>> situation in the Gaza vicinity: "We are witnessing and aware of the harsh 
>> and complex security reality. There's no doubt that years of restraint 
>> have heavily damaged our deterrence ability.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Operation Cast Lead restored Israel's deterrence ability. It's very 
>> important, but we are now facing a big test - whether we harm the 
>> achievement to the limits of our deterrence or strengthen it.
>>
>>
>>
>> "We're not looking for a military action. The people of Israel seek peace, 
>> act sensitively while taking chances."
>>
>>
>>
>> The Shas chairman said the Jewish state "must set a price tag for every 
>> rocket fired at Israel, every tunnel dug and every act of smuggling. We 
>> will respond immediately to every act of terror using the price tag. 
>> Believe me, not much will happen before it stops - as they also want to 
>> live after all."
>>
>>
>>
>> As for the response as he views it, Yishai said, "If for every small 
>> action, even a mortar shell fired at an open area or into the sea, we 
>> damage infrastructures which have yet to be damaged or hit dozens of 
>> hundreds of terrorists' homes while informing them in advance - so as not 
>> to hurt the family members - these hours will be destroyed once and the 
>> rocket fire will end.
>>
>>
>>
>> "We're not doing this gladly or with pleasure; we are doing it in order to 
>> defend Israel's citizens. The situation in the south, if we don't act as 
>> we demand, will worsen as we are witnessing in day to day life."
>>
>>
>>
>> Yishai added that the Palestinians don't want peace and that Israel should 
>> stop being eager. "This raises the price and moves peace away."
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2014919 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Destroy 100 houses for each rocket fired
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:23:48 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>"ÇDoügßT"  schreef in bericht 
>news:kxQJl.15419$hc1.14728@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>> news:6uoj25Fg3htnU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Shas Chairman Eli Yishai demands a harsh response against the rockets 
>>> fired at Israel from Gaza: Yishai said Monday that Israel should set a 
>>> price tag for any rocket launched by Hamas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Even if they fire at an open area or into the sea, we must damage their 
>>> infrastructures and destroy 100 houses. That's when it will end," he 
>>> said.
>>>
>>
>> I'd be doing a lot more than that. Of course I wouldn't start w/the
>> Gaza Shite -- I'd turn Tehran, Pigistan and Soddy Barbaria into
>> nuclear wastelands first THEN deport the palesimians to the
>> Sinai.
>>
> typical american behaviour: nothing but violent talk. what is it that you 
>americans are so in love with violence? 

Amerikkka is the most violent and lawless society in human history.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2014921 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: They own you, lock stock and barrel
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:31:45 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>'They' allow you to work provided you have a number.  'They' allow you
>a state sanctioned drug for recreational purposes.  'They' allow you
>to gamble at certain state approved games only.  'They' allow you a
>certain amount of pain killer when you are in cancerous pain.  'They'
>allow you to build as long as you ask permission and pay the juice.
>'They' do not allow you to have a smoke house in your back yard if you
>live in cities.  This is because smoke houses are a fire hazard even
>though in your neck of the woods, a fire was never started because of
>a smoke house gone out of control.
>'They' do not allow you to self medicate.  That's because you are
>stupid and would purchase anti-hypertension drugs when you have a
>tummy ache.  'They' expect and insist that you go along quietly when
>you are arrested for slapping some jerk who pushed you.  'They' can
>perform a strip search on you.  Your penis, vagina and asshole are
>their property.  Here in Ontario, 'they' do not allow you to see
>cigarettes in a shop.  'They' have ensured that the smokes are
>hidden.  This will cure smoking addiction.  So 'they' say.  'They'
>allow you a certain amount of paid holidays per year.
>Here in Ontario, our wonderful Premier gave us an additional holiday
>in February.  It's called 'Family day.'  I don't like it, but have to
>put up with it.  He gave us this holiday in order to thank us for
>voting his thieving ass back into power.

Actually, when it comes to "thieving asses", nobody can touch the
Harrisites. Our current premier is an absolute saint by comparison.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:21 EDT 2009
Article: 2014923 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:49:00 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:u84ev498qnsb7arf8ouceg7mptf2tjbuiv@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:38:57 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>news:26ad5$49f59a2b$596480f8$9758@news.upc.ie...
>>>>
>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>> news:ftk9v4pvi7c33reejkug2gql8snht54uqt@4ax.com...
>>>>>I repeat, there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except the
>>>>> New Testament. If you find some, you will become world famous
>>>>> overnight.
>>>
>>>WELL?
>>>
>>>Now that you were shown it what have you to say?
>>>
>> You haven't shown me anything worth squat. Church babble centuries
>> after the fact doesn't cut it. You have no independent evidence.
>
>Clement of Rome (c. 100),Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107-110), Justin Martyr.
>Papias of Hierapolis
>Quadratus of Athens
>
>Josephus, Tacitus,
>Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger.
>(All Late first or early second century and NONE of them Christian)

OK, I'm game. What did Tacitus write that was unambiguously about
Jesus? Many of these people wrote at a time when the Christian
religion was already in existence, so they don't constitute proof of
Christ's physical existence.

>
>There is one reference to Thallus having written about the Crucifixion.
>
>Celsus wrote, about 180AD a book against the Christians. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:21 EDT 2009
Article: 2014924 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "HOLO CRAP" EPISODE 1453867894879
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:09:27 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>How do you compare this with the German civilian who were transported in 
>cattle cars to Siberia.

That, naturally, was perfectly acceptable since the victims were not
Jews. The one-sided history of the holocaustians has irritated me for
decades and left me with a huge reservoir of doubt about their
stories.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:75t0enF19qmieU1@mid.individual.net...
>> By MARSHA HALPERT
>> First published in print: Saturday, April 25, 2009
>>
>> The Holocaust imposed lasting psychological effects on its Jewish 
>> survivors. It also profoundly affected their children.
>>
>>
>> The Nazis herded men, women, boys and girls into cattle cars and 
>> railroaded them to concentration camps. Thousands of Jews and other 
>> victims of the Nazis were murdered every day. The very old and very young, 
>> the disabled and mothers holding babies were sent to the gas chambers and 
>> cremated in huge ovens. Those not immediately condemned to die were doomed 
>> to torture by hard labor, starvation, medical experimentation, operations 
>> with no anesthesia and being forced to watch atrocities perpetrated before 
>> their eyes. They never knew what would happen next? Would they get food? 
>> Be selected to die? Beaten to death? Few survived.
>>
>> "Why did you come here? Do you see the smoke from the chimney?" a guard 
>> yelled when my mother in-law arrived at Auschwitz in May 1944. "Your 
>> mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers and your children are all 
>> burning into ashes." Lily Greenspan weighed 80 pounds when the death camp 
>> was liberated in June 1945. She was 23 years old.
>>
>> Survivors' anxiety surfaced in nightmares, insomnia, depression, panic 
>> attacks, fear of strangers and of not having enough food. Many felt guilty 
>> for surviving . Many numbed their feelings to cope. Many lacked compassion 
>> for the tragedies of those outside their families.
>>
>> Everyday occurrences triggered memories of the Holocaust for my father, 
>> Sam Fried ? and for me. Feeding the ducks made me think of starving 
>> prisoners. I, too, had bad dreams about the Holocaust. I've met adult 
>> children of survivors who were pressured to be successful to compensate 
>> for their parents' lost dreams. I know a man who went to Vietnam to prove 
>> he, too, could survive a war.
>>
>> All of us Holocaust survivors' children were keenly aware we did not have 
>> grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles. My husband, Leon Halpert, vowed 
>> to keep Jewish traditions alive, which is what his relatives murdered in 
>> the camps would have done. He and I both have sought to improve 
>> understanding among people of different faiths. For many years, I brought 
>> holiday foods like challah, kugel, hamantashen and dishes for Passover to 
>> Bishop Hubbard and his staff. I sent them Christmas and Easter cards and 
>> received wonderful thank-you letters from the bishop, a man I admire for 
>> bringing the Christian and Jewish communities together.
>>
>> Books have been written, movies have been made and great speakers have 
>> enlightened us about the Holocaust. There are several Holocaust museums. 
>> When I was 32, my father gave me the star he wore in the Czech ghetto and 
>> Auschvitz with "JUDE" on it. Jude means Jew. The word was supposed to 
>> brand my father as an outcast. I accepted that star and with it the legacy 
>> of the Holocaust.
>>
>> Events this week have commemorated Yom Hashoah, Holocaust Remembrance Day. 
>> I write about the Holocaust so people will not forget it. Most of all, I 
>> do so to keep alive the memory of my father, a kind, gentle man with a 
>> deep soul and a strong will to live. I loved him dearly. I will never 
>> understand why he had to suffer so much."
>>
>> Marsha Halpert of Albany is a companion for the elderly and former 
>> kindergarten teacher.
>> _________________
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:21 EDT 2009
Article: 2015140 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Smith" and the Auschwitz camp complex. 13 reasons to not swallow the HOAX.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:40:44 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:hvjjv4tca7d4pu4jaiuslksahecnr1hgtq@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:10:27 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>; "please"  wrote in message
>>>news:gt6bse$fem$1@pcls4.std.com...
>>>> In article ,
>>>> B.H. Cramer  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There are photos of everything else from WWII,
>>>>
>>>> There is not one single photo of Soviet soldiers either
>>>> "killing" or "raping" German civilians.  None.  Zero.
>>>> Zilch.  Nada.  Nothing.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Or of Jesus or Socrates or Alexander the Great!
>>>
>> LOL, Mavis, you don't suppose that part of the reason for that was
>> that photography wasn't invented until the middle of the 19th century,
>
>I am well aware of anachronisms. You seem to have missed the point entirely. 
>Historical anachronisms necessitate an absence of evidence of that type. 
>This absence of evidence is not evidence of absence of the events or people 
>mentioned!
>
>
>> well before the time of Jesus, Socrates, or Alexander. Of these three,
>> only Socrates and Alexander have independent verification of their
>> existence.
>
>But while you demand certain rules for evidence for Jesus in history you 
>have DIFFERENT rules for Alexander or Socrates! and even then you have yet 
>to produce a single historical reference form even 150 years after Alexander 
>or Socrates let alone during their life. How do you know Socrates for 
>example was not invented by Plato?

Your abysmal ignorance of classical antiquity isn't my problem. There
are all manner of pieces of evidence out there that testify to the
physical existence of both Plato and Alexander the Great.

Jesus Christ, on the other hand, is RELIGION, translated as ignorance,
superstition, fables, myths, and faith.

ALL human religions have the same validity, which is to say "not
much".

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:22 EDT 2009
Article: 2015146 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 08:06:37 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:qojjv4hkik4be67e3qbrtub90uij6960nf@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:31:34 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>news:d5efv4lqrhkjpo9hk5vt5estof8v09d1sg@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:51:33 +1000, in
>>>> <1pGdnaB3fYsUKGvUnZ2dnVY3goSdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:1vmcv414pamkkg2d662h9df94a7jgspufh@4ax.com...
>>>>> > On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:31:10 +1000, in
>>>>> > , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>> >  wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>> >> news:rqc9v41ovqluib2rsflfpbljmmsetmonol@4ax.com...
>>>>> >> > On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:02:43 +1000, in
>>>>> >> > , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>> >> >  wrote:
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>> >> >> news:srs6v4hgu8gbsf7miqg3i0cg195c3ocgsp@4ax.com...
>>>>> >> >> > On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 15:37:10 -0400, in
>>>>> >> >> > <7cp6v4dani6q70magr2ssvpd30slbr9m3b@4ax.com>, Johannes von
>>>>> >> >> > Ebersdorf
>>>>> >> >> >  wrote:
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:09:52 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>> >> >> >>  wrote:
>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> >"Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message
>>>>> >> >> >> >news:82883139-83fe-4ffe-bb95-78ca8fcf94c2@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> >> >> >> >On Apr 23, 3:31 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>>>> >> >> >> >> Here are some quotes from "With Hitler on the Road to 
>>>>> >> >> >> >> Power"
>>>>> >> >> >> >> by
>>>>> >> >> >> >> Dr.
>>>>> >> >> >> >> Otto Dietrich
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> >>   Hitler's road to power was a road to ruin.
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> >Thanks to the yids.
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> Doing nothing was already the road to ruin, so Hitler didn't
>>>>> >> >> >> make
>>>>> >> >> >> it
>>>>> >> >> >> any worse. Without WW2, Germany would still be paying ruinous
>>>>> >> >> >> "reparations" for WW1. Today, it is a prosperous state on 
>>>>> >> >> >> about
>>>>> >> >> >> 75%
>>>>> >> >> >> of
>>>>> >> >> >> the territory of the Empire. The old German saying "Besser ein
>>>>> >> >> >> Ende
>>>>> >> >> >> mit Schrecken, als ein Schrecken ohne Ende" still applies.
>>>>> >> >> >> (Better
>>>>> >> >> >> an
>>>>> >> >> >> ending with horrors than a horror without end)
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > So you are happy that Hitler caused the slaughter of 7,233,000
>>>>> >> >> > Germans
>>>>> >> >> > because now Germany is prosperous.
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> He does not say that at all, gourd.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > That's exactly what he said.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> No he did not.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > But he did.  Some German patriot that sick coward is.
>>>>>
>>>>> He did NOT say that.
>>>>
>>>> But he did.
>>>
>>>No he did not. You're putting words into his mouth.
>>>
>>>How very yid of you.
>>>
>>>
>> Distortion and misrepresentation are what mcfee/mcvay are all about.
>> That is exactly why I don't bother reading their stuff anymore. I
>> basically know what they're going to babble about before they say it.
>> They are nothing if not predictable.
>
>Predictable they are. Agenda driven they are. Paid shills they probably are.
>
>Zulu posted some very intersting information yesterday detailing the methods 
>utilised to put a particular spin on the Nuremberg "trials" evidence.
>
>Very intersting reading.

It was interesting. I was aware of some of the material, but there
were some new items as well. Thanks!

>
>ERNST KALTENBRUNNER
>
>During Kaltenbrunner's cross examination, he was indignantly asked how
>he had the nerve to
>pretend he was telling the truth and that 20 or 30 witnesses were
>lying (XI 349 <<385>>).
>
>The "eyewitnesses", of course, did not appear in court; they were
>merely names on pieces of
>paper. One of these names is that of Franz Ziereis, commandant of
>Mauthausen concentration
>camp.
>
>Ziereis "confessed" to gassing 65,000 people; making lampshades out of
>human skin;
>manufacturing counterfeit money; and supplied a complicated table of
>statistical information
>containing the exact number of inmates in 31 different camps. He then
>accused
>Kaltenbrunner of ordering the entire camp (Mauthausen) to be killed
>upon the approach of
>the Americans.
>
>Ziereis had been dead for 10 and a half months when he made this
>"confession". Fortunately,
>the "confession" has been "remembered" by someone else: a
>concentration camp inmate
>named Hans Marsalek, who never appeared in court, but whose signature
>appears on the
>document (Document 3870-PS, XXXIII 279-286).
>
>Pages 1 through 6 of this document are in quotation marks(!),
>including the statistical table,
>which states, for example, that there were 12,000 inmates at Ebensee;
>12,000 at Mauthausen;
>24,000 at Gusen I and II; 20 inmates at Schloss-Lindt, 70 inmates at
>Klagenfurt-
>Junkerschule, etc, for all of 31 camps in the table.
>
>The document is not signed by anyone else alleged to have been present
>at Ziereis's
>"confession", and no notes alleged to have been taken at the time are
>appended to the
>document. The document bears two signatures only: that of Hans
>Marsalek, the inmate; and
>that of Smith W. Brookhart Jr. U.S. Army. The document bears the date
>8 April 1946. Ziereis
>died 23 May 1945.
>
>The pretense was that Ziereis was too seriously injured (he died of
>multiple gunshot wounds
>through the stomach) to sign anything at the time, but he was healthy
>enough to dictate this
>lengthy and complex document, which was then "remembered" exactly and
>verbatim by
>Marsalek for 10 and a half months. Marsalek would, of course, have had
>no motivation to lie.
>The document is in German. Brookhart was a confession ghostwriter who
>also wrote the
>"confessions" of Rudolf Höss (in English, Document 3868-PS) and Otto
>Ohlendorf (in
>German, Document 2620-PS).
>
>(Brookhart was the son of a Senator from Washington Iowa. Address in
>1992: 18 Hillside
>Drive, Denver Colorado, USA. Brookhart never answered my letter as to
>whether he had any
>papers or memoirs.)
>
>Ziereis's "confession" continues to be taken seriously by Reitlinger,
>Shirer, Hilberg, and other
>itinerant peddlers of Holo-Schlock.
>
>                                                      - 37 -
>
>Kaltenbrunner claimed that there were 13 central concentration camps
>or "Stammlager"
>during the war (XI 268-269 <<298-299>>). The prosecution total of 300
>concentration camps
>was achieved by including perfectly normal work camps. The 13th camp,
>Matzgau, near
>Danzig, was a special camp whose prisoners were SS guards and police
>who had been
>sentenced to imprisonment for offenses against prisoners in their
>charge: physical
>mistreatment, embezzlement, theft of personal property, etc. This camp
>with its inmate SS
>men fell into the hands of the Russians at the end of the war (XI 312,
>316 <<345, 350>>).
>
>Kaltenbrunner claimed that sentences passed by SS and police courts
>were far more severe
>than sentences passed by other courts for the same offenses. The SS
>carried out frequent trials
>of their own men for offenses against inmates and violations of
>discipline (XXI 264-291,
>369-370 <<294-323, 408-409>>).
>
>Third degree methods of interrogation were permitted by law for the
>sole purpose of
>obtaining information relating to future resistance activity; it was
>forbidden for the purpose
>of obtaining confessions. These interrogators required the presence of
>a doctor, and allowed a
>total of 20 blows with a stick once only, on the bare buttocks, a
>process which could not be
>repeated later. Other forms of legal "Nazi torture" included
>confinement in a dark cell, or
>standing during lengthy interrogations (XX 164, 180-181 <<184,
>202-203>>; XXI 502-510;
>528-530 <<556-565, 583-584>>).
>
>Kaltenbrunner and many other defense witnesses claimed that similar
>methods were used by
>police all over the world (XI 312 <<346>>) and that respected police
>officials visited
>Germany to study German procedures (XXI 373 <<412>>).
>Defense evidence on this and related topics amounts to many thousands
>of pages divided
>between the Tribunal and "commission", and 136,000 affidavits (XXI
>346-373 <<382-
>412>>; 415 <<458>>, 444 <<492>>).
>
>Kaltenbrunner was convicted of conspiring to "lynch" Allied airmen who
>committed mass
>bombings of civilians. The lynchings would have been illegal, but did
>not occur. Many
>airmen were saved from mobs by German officials. The Germans refused
>to contemplate
>such a matter, fearing it would lead to a general slaughter of
>parachuted fliers. Like so many
>other German crimes, this remained an idea without effect (XXI 406-407
><<449-450>>, 472-
>476 <<522-527>>).
>
>Another crime committed by Kaltenbrunner was responsibility for the so-
>called "Bullet
>Order". This is supposed to have been an order to shoot prisoners of
>war using a measuring
>contraption (probably inspired by the Paul Waldmann pedal-driven brain
>bashing machine,
>Document USSR-52, VII 377 <<416-417>>).
>
>The "Bullet Order", Document 1650-PS, if it is an authentic document,
>which it probably is
>not (XVIII 35-36 <<43-44>>) is a mistranslation: the sense of the
>order is that prisoners who
>attempt to escape should be chained to an iron ball (Kugel), and not
>that they should be shot
>with a "bullet" (also Kugel). The word "chained" appears in the
>document, but the word
>"shot" does not (III 506 <<565>>; XXI 514 <<568>>); Gestapo affidavit
>75; XXI 299
><<332>>). The document is a "teletype" thus, without a signature
>(XXVII 424-428).
>
>                                                 - 38 -
>
>"Sonderbehandlung" (special treatment) is an example of the ugly
>jargon used in all
>bureaucracies, and is probably best translated as "treatment on a case
>by case basis".
>Kaltenbrunner was able to show that it meant, in the context of one
>document, the right to
>drink champagne and take French lessons. The prosecution got a winter
>resort mixed up with
>a concentration camp (XI 338-339 <<374-375>>); (XI 232-386
><<259-427>>; XVIII 40-68
><<49-80>>). (The winter resort document is Document 3839-PS, XXXIII
>197-199, an
>"affidavit").
>
>
>From
>Carlos W. Porter, Not Guilty at Nuremberg, p 36-38
>http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres3/CPeng.pdf
>
>"Sonderbehandlung" (special treatment) according with Kaltenbrunner
>
>
>
>COL. AMEN: Very well. Now let us read along in the center of the page,
>commencing with:
>
>"In regard to 'special treatment' I have the following knowledge:
>
>"On occasion of meetings of the office chiefs, Gruppenfuehrer Muller
>frequently consulted Kaltenbrunner as to whether this or that case
>should be specially treated or if 'special treatment' was to be
>considered. The following is an example of how the conversation went:
>
>"Muller: Case Obergruppenfuehrer B. please, 'special treatment' or
>not?
>
>"Kaltenbrunner: Yes, or submit it to the Reichsfuehrer SS for
>decision.
>
>"Or:
>
>"Muller: Obergruppenfuehrer, no answer has arrived from the
>Reichsfuehrer SS in regard to 'special treatment' for Case A.
>
>"Kaltenbrunner: Ask once more. "Or:
>
>"Muller handed a paper to Kaltenbrunner and asked for instructions, as
>described above.
>
>"When Muller had such a conversation with Kaltenbrunner, he only
>mentioned the initials, so that the persons present at the table never
>knew who was involved."
>
>And then the last two paragraphs:
>
>"Both Muller and Kaltenbrunner proposed in my presence 'special
>treatment' or submission to the Reichsfuehrer SS for approval of
>'special treatment' for certain cases which I cannot specify in
>detail. I estimate that In approximately 50 percent of the cases
>special treatment' was approved."
>
>Are the contents of that affidavit true or false, Defendant?
>
>KALTENBRUNNER: The contents are not correct, when given the
>interpretation you are giving to the document. You will see
>immediately that the tragic expression "special treatment" is given
>here an absolutely humorous turn. Do you know the meaning of
>Winzerstube in Godesberg, and of Walsertraum in the Walsertal, and
>their relation to the term "Sonderbehandlung"? Walsertraum is the
>smartest and most fashionable Alpine hotel of the whole German
>
>338
>
>12 April 46
>
>Reich, and the Winzerstube is a very famous hotel in Godesberg in
>which many international meetings were held. Especially qualified and
>distinguished personalities were accommodated there-I would mention M.
>Poncet and M. Herriot and many more. They had three times the normal
>ration for diplomats, which is nine times the ration of the ordinary
>German during the war. They were daily given a bottle of champagne.
>They were allowed to correspond freely with their families in France
>and to receive parcels. These internees were allowed to receive visits
>on several occasions, their wishes were cared for wherever they were.
>That is what is meant here by 'special treatment."
>
>I can only state here that it may well be that Muller may have talked
>about this to me, since I was extremely anxious from the point of view
>of foreign policy and intelligence that the Reich should now follow my
>suggestion and treat foreign persons in a more humane manner. It is in
>this connection that Muller may have spoken to me, but Winzerstube and
>Godesberg, these two final achievements of this so-called "special
>treatment," were the places where political internees upon parole were
>accommodated and received preferential treatment.
>
>COL. AMEN: Did you have frequent meetings with your section heads,
>including Muller, as indicated in this document?
>
>KALTENBRUNNER: I stated yesterday and today that, of course, I met
>Muller when we were lunching together, which we had to do because all
>our 38 buildings in Berlin had been destroyed or damaged by bombs, but
>I did not talk to him about official matters concerning Amt IV.
>
>This document makes it clear that these were matters of extreme
>interest to me as Chief of Intelligence.
>
>May I ask you not to leave this document just yet. It must be put on
>record before this Tribunal that these two establishments are used as
>I wished for the preferential and better treatment than that enjoyed
>by the Germans. That is of great importance to me for my defense, and
>I am asking you-I shall ask you through my counsel- that you make
>detailed inquiries about these two hotels, and I also request that you
>ask M. Poncet, as the leader of the French detainees, about the
>treatment he received there. He had such a good time there that he
>gave French lessons to the wife of a criminal investigation official,
>and taught her French when they went for walks for hours without being
>guarded at all.
>
>
>
>http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/04-12-46.asp
>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:23 EDT 2009
Article: 2015147 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 08:04:22 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:qdjjv49t0tts0i4jkga23qg2ld1jgf9mvh@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:02:55 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>news:jA7Kl.238816$UR4.55594@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>> On 4/29/2009 1:30 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:ifdfv4pf4pnjhn0qdqtg150sva8g90vcum@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:46:56 +1000, in
>>>>>> <2ZidnfbLgdbpKWvUnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:kllcv4hc8ob7moit5asj7nuhlkrp08gqfq@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:09:57 +1000, in
>>>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:2p69v4lp93oda5d3um74qpeeb72hg6fk5q@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 05:58:07 -0700, in
>>>>>>>>>> <3hm8v4lqp2ll2rekc18fnf5a383eue2cqm@4ax.com>, Klaus
>>>>>>>>>> Schadenfreude  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns Tim Miller
>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Klaus Schadenfreude" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:5is6v416ktfu2dkdgqbunkdig3o5qd6pth@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns Topaz 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Kevin MacDonald
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current situation in the United States is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really an awesome display of Jewish power and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> influence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ____ "Let's see: The Jews control the world. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nazis are illiterate, unemployable pedophiles. Hmmm, whom do 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to throw in my lot with...?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  -Chris Morton, August 2001
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He's a coon, ferfuckssake.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So, basically, EVERYONE kicks your girlie ass?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL!!
>>>>>>>>>>> He's afraid of a coon? I think the nazi-wannabe club
>>>>>>>>>>> needs a new spokesman!
>>>>>>>>>> They are afraid of their shadows.
>>>>>>>>> Coons are ALL shadow. They scare themselves silly.
>>>>>>>> Ben has never met an insulting comment he didn't like.
>>>>>>> What insult? Where?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are quite simply revolting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh dear. An insult from the wee tooler complaining of another's
>>>>> insulting behaviour.
>>>>
>>>> I can see why you and Ebersdorf get along so well.  He is a traitor to
>>>> his people and a coward and you are an antisemite, a racist and a 
>>>> coward.
>>>
>>>Anti-semite - I don't think I am but the yids have so labelled me - I'll
>>>wear it with pride
>>>Racist - Bullshit.
>>>Coward - Bullshit.
>>>
>>>I see you as a traitor to Canada and the white race. I see you as a craven
>>>coward. I also see you as a being racist, given you're more than happy to
>>>support the ethnocentric, racist yids in everything they say and do.
>>>
>>>You're also a hypocrite and a teller/creator of porkies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Gord McFee
>>>> I'll write no line before its time
>>>>
>>>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>>>>
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> There seems to be no end to mcfee's stupidity.
>
>He's not stupid in the intellectual sense, but he's stupid to think he's on 
>the side of right.

Self-deception would have been a better term than stupidity. McFee
simply seems to uncritically accept everything anti-German nonsense he
is told, something along the lines of that schadenfreude creep.

>
>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:23 EDT 2009
Article: 2015149 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 12:49:32 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:8fnkv4t30659neb087qrvhm7i5merb50m6@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:03:51 +1000, in
>> <7YOdnRU3Vo3SomTUnZ2dnVY3go6dnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> news:0C7Kl.238825$UR4.172271@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...
>>> > On 4/29/2009 1:30 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >> news:akdfv4p4r27i1lqrot89ee8n2qltvdj7gs@4ax.com...
>>> >>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:48:24 +1000, in
>>> >>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >>>  wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >>>> news:mamcv451876cq0e2k0sam893kad8j7375j@4ax.com...
>>> >>>>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:26:36 +1000, in
>>> >>>>> <8MKdnRixd4LyC2jUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >>>>>  wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >>>>>> news:ks69v458dao66o1pp6v1v707t9leoj17aj@4ax.com...
>>> >>>>> [...]
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> You have no comment to make about the desperation of
>>> >>>>>>>> Poland, Britain et al to make war with Germany?
>>> >>>>>>> What desperation?  Why would Poland be desperate to make
>>> >>>>>>> war with the most powerful country on the face of the
>>> >>>>>>> planet, one that would utterly destroy them before their
>>> >>>>>>> allies could even mobilize?  Do you morons even read what
>>> >>>>>>> you post before you post it?  Of course you don't; you just
>>> >>>>>>> copy and paste.
>>> >>>> Hahahahahahaha. Dickhead. It's what you and the other Oy Vey do
>>> >>>> endlessly. All your support comes from your own sites.
>>> >>> That was about as irrelevant as you could have been.
>>> >>
>>> >> Not to those who know what you're up to, old feller.
>>> >
>>> > Nice troll try.  However, you haven't answered the question yet.  Here
>>> > it is again:
>>> >
>>> > Why would Poland be desperate to make war with the most powerful 
>>> > country
>>> > on the face of the planet, one that would utterly destroy them before
>>> > their allies could even mobilize?
>>>
>>> I have no idea. None at all.
>>
>> That is exactly the point.  Poland was not desperate to make war on
>> Germany.
>
>Because you say so.
>>
>>> Why does ANY country make war? It's never based
>>> on commonsense or logic.
>>
>> It is sometimes.  The "logic", such as it is, is that the country that
>> starts the war thinks it can win it.  Hitler thought he was going to
>> have a localized war because he had been assured by the idiot von
>> Ribbentrop that Britain and France would huff and puff and not
>> interfere and not declare war.  Had von Ribbentrop been right, Hitler
>> would have had his short and quick war, and who knows what would have
>> happened.  But he was wrong, as usual, and Hitler made a major mistake
>> listening to him.  Chamberlain had made it clear in March 1939 that
>> the time for Britain sitting idly by was over.
>
>More cherry picked "facts" from the ole Holocaust(tm) huxter.

The foreign minister, von Ribbentrop, has hardly an idiot, nor was he
wrong "most of the time". Poor mcfee doesn't realize how much of a
put-down his babblings are to his cherished allies, who took six years
and huge casualty lists to defeat "idiots" like von Ribbentrop despite
having a huge numerical advantage.

>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:23 EDT 2009
Article: 2015151 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:21:42 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Apr 28, 8:03 am, Klaus Schadenfreude 
>wrote:
>> In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >Here is part of Hitler's
>>
>> Nobody reads the speeches of a proven half-wit.
>
>You should read it.  It doesn't sound like the man is/was a half-wit.

On the other hand, it is abundantly clear that the creep
"schadenfreude" is a clueless idiot.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:24 EDT 2009
Article: 2015152 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:22:32 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:l5kjv41stq52bo75s13g7crbr0uqqeqhpl@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:35:26 +0100, MavisBeacon
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:38:57 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:26ad5$49f59a2b$596480f8$9758@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ftk9v4pvi7c33reejkug2gql8snht54uqt@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> I repeat, there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> New Testament. If you find some, you will become world famous
>>>>>>> overnight.
>>>>> WELL?
>>>>>
>>>>> Now that you were shown it what have you to say?
>>>>>
>>>> You haven't shown me anything worth squat.
>>>
>>>REally? Then why don't you go through the actual evidence I supplied you
>>>with and show how non Christian historians writing in the latter part of
>>>the first and early second century are not "contemporary" to Jesus who
>>>was executed in about 40 AD?
>>>
>>>>Church babble
>>>
>>>The evidence I supplied you with includes Roman (i.e. the Roman empire
>>>and NOT the Roman Catholic Church) and non christian and non Roman
>>>Catholic Church sources. All OUTSIDE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT!
>>>Your claim was "there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except
>>>the New Testament."
>>>
>>>Your claim was wrong!
>>>
>>>
>>> >centuries
>>>> after the fact doesn't cut it.
>>>
>>>
>>>In addition to the above contemporary evidence you have also been given
>>>references ranging in history. I have asked you whether you can produce
>>>any writings contemporary to alaxender the great or socrates. You have
>>>utterlly FAILED to do so! By your reasoning alexander or Socrates never
>>>existed!
>>
>> Nonsense. Both Socrates and Alexander have huge personal
>> accomplishments that persisted for centuries after their deaths.
>
>LOL! And christianity didn't? LOL!

Christianity is just another silly human religion among hundreds. The
Church of Rome held back civilization for centuries with its ignorance
and superstition.

>
>Look. wher is your writings from the time of alexander or writings by 
>Socrates?
>You haven't produced ANY evidence!

It isn't my job to educate you, Mavis. The evidence exists by the
tonne in any larger library.

>
>>By
>> contrast, Jesus wrote nothing, built nothing, and only speaks via
>> disciples who wrote at least half a century after his death.
>
>WRONG! you have been shown evidence from ROMAN historians JEWISH and others!

There are no trial transcripts and no records that anybody meeting the
description of "Jesus of Nazareth" was ever charged with anything, let
alone crucified.

>
>What did Socrates personally build?

Socrates was a philosopher and teacher, not an architect.

>What did Socrates write?

>Socrates only ever speaks through diciples.
>What writings about him or by him from his time survive?

He was condemned by the assembly for allegedly corrupting the youth of
Athens. That was recorded, and constitutes proof of his existence.

>The best Ill bet you can do is supply something from AFTER the time of Jesus 
>when Jesus was already over 300 years after Socrates!

Nonsense

>
>>>
>>>
>>>  >You have no independent evidence.
>
>You have no independent evidence of socrates! I have shown you roman and 
>Jewish hiostorians and non christians as well as non New testament writings!
>Your claim about "nothing outside of the New Testament" is clearly WRONG!

You're still spinning your wheels, Mavis, but going nowhere.

>
>
>>>
>>>It is listed above. roman historians from the time of Jesus. Jewish
>>>ones. Heretics and athists in addition to christians wrote about Jesus.
>>>
>>>You have produced NOTHING about Alexander or Socrates from their time.
>>
>> I didn't, they did.
>
>You have produced NOTHING contemporary to Socrates by him!
>
>>
>>>You have No independent evidence of their existance!
>>
>> A whole raft of cities founded by Alexander are ample proof.
>
>No they aren't! How are they.
>If a "sacred heart of jesus" church exists in every city in the world does 
>that therefore prove Jesus?
>
>> Persian
>> chronicles prove the existence of Alexander.
>
>What Persian Chronicles? Ill betr you can produce NONE from the time 
>Alexander was meant to be alive!
>
>>Athenian chronicles prove
>> the existence of Alexander and of Socrates.
>
>What Athenian chronicles from the time of Alexander or Socrates? Again Ill 
>bet you can produce no contemporary accounts! If you produce any they will 
>most likely be from at least 300 years later. Yet you discount anything 
>about Jesus from say 150 years after Jesus
>>
>>>According to you alexander and socrates never existed!
>>
>> More nonsense by Mavis.
>
>But the evidence is absent! Where are these Chronicles you claim that were 
>written say in 330 BC when Alexander was meant to be around?
>Where is there anything ever written by Socrates?
>
>Yet you claim that if Jesus didn't write something or if someone from around 
>the same time as Jesus didn't refer to him then he didn't exist?
>
>You have double standards! 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:24 EDT 2009
Article: 2015154 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:34:37 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:ljojv41b00q38lqjojjl16cp8sg2vhcv34@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:49:00 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:u84ev498qnsb7arf8ouceg7mptf2tjbuiv@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:38:57 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:26ad5$49f59a2b$596480f8$9758@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ftk9v4pvi7c33reejkug2gql8snht54uqt@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>I repeat, there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except the
>>>>>>> New Testament. If you find some, you will become world famous
>>>>>>> overnight.
>>>>>
>>>>>WELL?
>>>>>
>>>>>Now that you were shown it what have you to say?
>>>>>
>>>> You haven't shown me anything worth squat. Church babble centuries
>>>> after the fact doesn't cut it. You have no independent evidence.
>>>
>>>Clement of Rome (c. 100),Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107-110), Justin Martyr.
>>>Papias of Hierapolis
>>>Quadratus of Athens
>>>
>>>Josephus, Tacitus,
>>>Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger.
>>>(All Late first or early second century and NONE of them Christian)
>>
>> OK, I'm game. What did Tacitus write that was unambiguously about
>> Jesus?
>
>
>LOL! I note you added "unambiguous"! The point isnt whether Jesus Christed 
>existed! The point you made what that no evidence outside of the New 
>Testament esists! You were wrong!

It isn't too bloody likely that I'm wrong. You are just the victim of
a rather primitive American education.

>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Ancient_Creeds
>Tacitus (c. 56-c. 117), writing c. 116, included in his Annals a mention of 
>Christianity and "Christus", the Latinized Greek translation of the Hebrew 
>word "Messiah". In describing Nero's persecution of this group following the 
>Great Fire of Rome c. 64, he wrote:

Tacitus wasn't even born until after Christ's death. His comments are
about Christians, since the cult obviously existed already during his
lifetime. His writings could count as "proof" of the existence of the
cult, but not of the existence of Christ himself.

>
>  Nero fastened the guilt of starting the blaze and inflicted the most 
>exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called 
>Christians [Chrestians] by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had 
>its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius 14-37 
>at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most 
>mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not 
>only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all 
>things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre 
>and become popular
>
>the vast majority of scholars conclude that the passage was written by 
>Tacitus
>
>Flavius Josephus (c. 37-c. 100), a Jew and Roman citizen who worked under 
>the patronage of the Flavians, wrote the Antiquities of the Jews in 93 AD.. 
>In these works, Jesus is mentioned twice.
>
>Pliny the Younger, the provincial governor of Pontus and Bithynia, wrote to 
>Emperor Trajan c. 112 concerning how to deal with Christians, who refused to 
>worship the emperor, and instead worshiped "Christus".
>
>  Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked 
>the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to 
>your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with 
>statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ - none of which those who 
>are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do - these I thought 
>should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were 
>Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased 
>to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as 
>twenty-five years. They all worshiped your image and the statues of the 
>gods, and cursed Christ
>
>
>
>>Many of these people wrote at a time when the Christian
>> religion was already in existence, so they don't constitute proof of
>> Christ's physical existence.
>
>LOL! What a load of shite! You want people from BEFORE the time of Jesus 
>now?
>
>I suppose you can produce someone from BEFORE alexander was born to prove 
>alexander! LOL!
>
>Look! You can't produce a writing by someone who wrote at the time of 
>socrates about Socrates or Alexander can you?
>Now I didn't say that I would reject any reference to anyone later writing 
>about such a writing even if you can't produce it because I know about 
>historical methodology with respect to ancient history. You obviously don't 
>!
>
>But Ill bet you cant produce a writing from a hundred years later and that 
>the best you can do is produce something from about 350 years later 
>referring to a lost earlier work.
>
>>
>>>
>>>There is one reference to Thallus having written about the Crucifixion.
>>>
>>>Celsus wrote, about 180AD a book against the Christians.
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:25 EDT 2009
Article: 2015155 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:07:49 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:tfkjv41ng0i1u04fj278n18vrfhac3c7dt@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:55:53 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>news:46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>> news:4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>
>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you 
>>>>>>>> >>> know
>>>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is the
>>>>>>>> >>> case you
>>>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of shit
>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, and
>>>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for
>>>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be arrested
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say the
>>>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much
>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found that
>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who are Butz and Finkelsein , what academic credentials do they have 
>>>>> and
>>>>> how were they "canned" for questioning the Holocaust?
>>>>
>>>> You really are as dumb as a box of rocks, girlie.
>>>
>>>You mentioned the names Butz and Finkelsein as cases of academics being
>>>canned and you can't actually support your own claim. If you can't support
>>>your own claim don't try to attack the person asking you for the 
>>>supporting
>>>evidence. It is a dead giveaway that you are a loser.
>>
>> I know and understand what Ben is talking about, so why don't you?
>>
>
>You cant SHOW you know unless you can show whom he is talking about and how 
>it is a case of academics being canned for holocaust denial. 

Talking to you is like trying to explain calculus to a grade 3 pupil
who has just started basic addition and subtraction.

You just don't have the knowledge base to partake in any meaningful
discussion about anything here.

It isn't my assignment to educate you. Hire somebody.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:25 EDT 2009
Article: 2015156 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 09:07:53 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>news:1oWdndQGSJv0v2fUnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>> news:1b239$49f9fd64$596480f8$16053@news.upc.ie...
>>>
>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>>> news:tfkjv41ng0i1u04fj278n18vrfhac3c7dt@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:55:53 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you 
>>>>>>>>>> >>> know
>>>>>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is the
>>>>>>>>>> >>> case you
>>>>>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of 
>>>>>>>>>> > shit
>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, 
>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for
>>>>>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be 
>>>>>>>>>> arrested
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say 
>>>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much
>>>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who are Butz and Finkelsein , what academic credentials do they have 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> how were they "canned" for questioning the Holocaust?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You really are as dumb as a box of rocks, girlie.
>>>>>
>>>>>You mentioned the names Butz and Finkelsein as cases of academics being
>>>>>canned and you can't actually support your own claim. If you can't 
>>>>>support
>>>>>your own claim don't try to attack the person asking you for the 
>>>>>supporting
>>>>>evidence. It is a dead giveaway that you are a loser.
>>>>
>>>> I know and understand what Ben is talking about, so why don't you?
>>>>
>>>
>>> You cant SHOW you know unless you can show whom he is talking about and 
>>> how it is a case of academics being canned for holocaust denial.
>>
>> It will take you seconds to find evidence of Butz and Finkelstein's 
>> destruction,
>
>Then why can't you supply it since you claim it and you say the evidence is 
>there?
>You claim ity why should I have to do your work for you? especially if it is 
>untrue?
>
>> It is common knowledge among those with even a modicum of intelligence.
>
>It will take you seconds to find evidence of the Holocaust .

It will take seconds for find holocaust fables and holocaust
propaganda. It is all over the place.

>It is common 
>knowledge to anyone intelligent or not (so you can count yourself in there). 
>But bigots like you apply double standards to that as well don't you?
>
>Where is the evidence to support your claims about lots of academics being 
>canned? 

Christ all fucking mighty, Mavis, read a few books or newspapers.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:26 EDT 2009
Article: 2015157 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 08:11:45 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>news:b1a69$49f99dd4$596480f8$22128@news.upc.ie...
>>
>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>> news:46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>>> news:4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie...
>>>>
>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you 
>>>>>>> >>> know that
>>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is the 
>>>>>>> >>> case you
>>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of shit 
>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, and 
>>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for 
>>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be arrested 
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say the
>>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much 
>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found that 
>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>
>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>
>>>> Who are Butz and Finkelsein , what academic credentials do they have and 
>>>> how were they "canned" for questioning the Holocaust?
>>>
>>> You really are as dumb as a box of rocks, girlie.
>>
>> You mentioned the names Butz and Finkelsein as cases of academics being 
>> canned and you can't actually support your own claim.
>
>What the fuck are you blathering about? 

She probably would have difficulty distinguishing her arse from a hole
in the wall. I figure that interactions with her are a waste of time.
She just doesn't know anything about the subject at hand.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:26 EDT 2009
Article: 2015158 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <9yCJl.24611$Db2.22407@edtnps83> <02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu>    <4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie>  <1cdf0$49f9fd65$596480f8$16053@news.upc.ie>
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:09:58 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:udkjv4l78l1i1mdqihuimn5rbquc7d3s4b@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:58:48 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you know
>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is the 
>>>>>> >>> case
>>>>>> >>> you
>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of shit 
>>>>>> > and
>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, and
>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for 
>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be arrested 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say the
>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much 
>>>>>> noise
>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found that
>>>>>> out -
>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>
>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>
>>>Who are Butz and Finkelsein
>>
>> Holy fucking Moly, woman, do some research. Why are you wasting our
>> time?
>
>
>Why don't you do some research and look up the phrase "burden of evidence"?
>I didn't make the claim.
>If YOU make a claim then YOU supply the evidence.

Nobody is making a "claim". The trials and tribulations of both Butz
and Finkelstein have been widely reported in all manner of different
media. Your ignorance isn't either my problem or Ben's.


>
>What can I expect next? Are you going to claim Unicorns got canned for 
>Holocaust denial and then when I ask you to show evidence of Unicorns you 
>try the "do your own research" to support your empty claim?
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:26 EDT 2009
Article: 2015159 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 09:12:23 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>news:IqydndxifJbHuWfUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>[snip]
>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much 
>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found that
>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>>
>>>>>Who are Butz and Finkelsein
>>>>
>>>> Holy fucking Moly, woman, do some research. Why are you wasting our
>>>> time?
>>>
>>>
>>> Why don't you do some research and look up the phrase "burden of 
>>> evidence"?
>>
>> Why don't you ever support your
> > shite with evidence, twat.
>
>I do -
>http://www.geocities.com/xenu_rules/misc-burden-of-proof.html
>http://education.gsu.edu/spehar/FOCUS/EdPsy/misc/Fallacies.htm
>http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance#Burden_of_proof
>http://www.zionism-israel.com/Fallacies/burden-of-proof.html
>http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/adhom/burden.html 
>
Nizkor's propaganda offerings don't quite make it as "evidence" of
anything except that the holocaust™ industry has a lot of money at its
disposal.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:27 EDT 2009
Article: 2015160 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 08:20:35 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:udkjv4l78l1i1mdqihuimn5rbquc7d3s4b@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:58:48 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you know
>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is the 
>>>>>> >>> case
>>>>>> >>> you
>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of shit 
>>>>>> > and
>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, and
>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for 
>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be arrested 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say the
>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much 
>>>>>> noise
>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found that
>>>>>> out -
>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>
>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>
>>>Who are Butz and Finkelsein
>>
>> Holy fucking Moly, woman, do some research. Why are you wasting our
>> time?
>
>Dumb as a box of rocks - yes?

I'm almost at the point of simply ignoring further posts by this
cretin. She is both ignorant and illogical. There is simply no basis
on which to talk to her.

>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>, what academic credentials do they have and how
>>>were they "canned" for questioning the Holocaust?
>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:27 EDT 2009
Article: 2015161 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:  <88fd0006-6851-4aa4-ac9e-46eeeb8b5d81@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>  <76df6ae2-83f5-4f39-bec9-a4eb2e4c46ea@w31g2000prd.googlegroups.com>    <7jkjv4duimj26p15g7fdn1o5c2i0ukkbgl@4ax.com> 
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 08:25:49 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:7jkjv4duimj26p15g7fdn1o5c2i0ukkbgl@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:57:56 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>news:mr2iv49bmkbs4qm2osgja2ionq9v28sj78@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:18:32 +1000, in
>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  wrote in message
>>>>> news:76df6ae2-83f5-4f39-bec9-a4eb2e4c46ea@w31g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> > On Apr 24, 11:31 am, "B.H. Cramer"  
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>  wrote in message
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> news:88fd0006-6851-4aa4-ac9e-46eeeb8b5d81@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> > On Apr 23, 11:48 am, "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>> >> > wrote:
>>>>> >> >>  wrote in message
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >>news:c78c521a-b753-4188-a6fa-b18bef2003a0@g1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >> > On Apr 4, 2:17 am, Anonymous 
>>>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>>>> >> >> >> The biggest victims of the 'holocaust' are the German people,
>>>>> >> >> >> saddled
>>>>> >> >> >> with reparations to worthless kikes.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> The second biggest victim is the idea of historical truth and
>>>>> >> >> >> academic
>>>>> >> >> >> integrity.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >> > The Germans screwed everyone in occupied Europe and planned to
>>>>> >> >> > convert....
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >> Oh god. Another knob who has only read yid history.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> > I also note B H Cramer does not give a profile - does not mean he 
>>>>> >> > is
>>>>> >> > guilty of anything but we do not know how he gets to his denials 
>>>>> >> > or
>>>>> >> > why.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Denial of what? Elaborate please.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier,
>>>>>
>>>>> I really don't give a flying fuck what your opinion is, sunschein.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe the yid version of the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm in good company, actually, given there are only a few million of 
>>>>> you
>>>>> clowns in the world.
>>>>
>>>> There are only a few dozen of you morons.
>>>
>>>Keep thinking that, gourd. It's that type of chutzpah, jingoism and
>>>braggadocio that got the yids' arses handed to them on a platter in 2006.
>>>
>> Poor mcfee seems to be into self-deception. If their were only a few
>> dozen holocaust heretics, nobody would pay them any attention. The
>> shrill hysteria characteristic of mcfee/mcvay/RJ11/... suggests the
>> opposite. Their name-calling, threats, and general hysteria are a
>> desperate attempt to keep the sinking ship afloat.
>>
>> The gas chamber story has retreated from all of Germany in 1945 to a
>> small cluster of camps in present-day Poland, and even there the story
>> is on very thin ice.
>
>Too right. If it wasn't for the US yids, this Holocaust(tm) thing would 
>never have got airplay. Even Encyclopaedia Britannica didn't make mention of 
>it until the early/mid 1960s.
>
>The whole thing is a carefully choreographed creation of the hebes.

It is also interesting to note that a number of the key players of WW2
don't waste a single word on it in their memoirs.

Churchill
Eisenhower
Montgomery
de Gaulle
and numerous others all wrote BIG autobiographies and memoirs of their
experiences, and none found the holocaust™ important enough to
mention.

>
>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:27 EDT 2009
Article: 2015162 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: They own you, lock stock and barrel
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <73ulv4199p42u3o5g6i218peg21umvefo7@4ax.com>
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:46:16 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Apr 30, 1:24 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:31:45 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >'They' allow you to work provided you have a number.  'They' allow you
>> >a state sanctioned drug for recreational purposes.  'They' allow you
>> >to gamble at certain state approved games only.  'They' allow you a
>> >certain amount of pain killer when you are in cancerous pain.  'They'
>> >allow you to build as long as you ask permission and pay the juice.
>> >'They' do not allow you to have a smoke house in your back yard if you
>> >live in cities.  This is because smoke houses are a fire hazard even
>> >though in your neck of the woods, a fire was never started because of
>> >a smoke house gone out of control.
>> >'They' do not allow you to self medicate.  That's because you are
>> >stupid and would purchase anti-hypertension drugs when you have a
>> >tummy ache.  'They' expect and insist that you go along quietly when
>> >you are arrested for slapping some jerk who pushed you.  'They' can
>> >perform a strip search on you.  Your penis, vagina and asshole are
>> >their property.  Here in Ontario, 'they' do not allow you to see
>> >cigarettes in a shop.  'They' have ensured that the smokes are
>> >hidden.  This will cure smoking addiction.  So 'they' say.  'They'
>> >allow you a certain amount of paid holidays per year.
>> >Here in Ontario, our wonderful Premier gave us an additional holiday
>> >in February.  It's called 'Family day.'  I don't like it, but have to
>> >put up with it.  He gave us this holiday in order to thank us for
>> >voting his thieving ass back into power.
>>
>> Actually, when it comes to "thieving asses", nobody can touch the
>> Harrisites. Our current premier is an absolute saint by comparison.
>
>You're right there.  Harris did much damage to Ontario.

I always find it amusing when the present-day Ontario Tories whine
that the current government is being too slow at repairing the damage
that previous Tory regimes have caused.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:28 EDT 2009
Article: 2015163 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: attack on dutch royals twarted
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 19:36:23 +1200, "PB1952" 
wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:75vigaF1al9f3U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>  schreef in bericht 
>> news:ca15c742-8f20-49a5-a780-4e485661a2a2@z8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>> On 30 Apr, 15:06, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>>> "PB1952"  schreef in 
>>>> berichtnews:gtc936$6nq$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>>>> >news:75tk09F1a2lhjU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> >> "PB1952"  schreef in bericht
>>>> >>news:gtc3vg$v7p$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> >>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>>>> >>>news:75thr1F1812uiU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> >>>> see pict6uyres and video at this link
>>>>
>>>> >>>> so far 2 dead and 17 seriously injured
>>>>
>>>> >>>>http://www.telegraaf.nl/
>>>>
>>>> >>> An anti-royalist, an old person who lost control of their car or a
>>>> >>> Moroccan on a mission for Allah?
>>>>
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>> PB1...@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> >> the car was a black suzuki and it would not surprise me if it was a
>>>> >> moroccan because they are really a pain in the ARSE.
>>>>
>>>> > 4 dead on a day of fun and celebration. How sad.
>>>> > Condolences to the Dutch.
>>>>
>>>> > The Dutch online community has traced the license plate of the driver 
>>>> > and
>>>> > named a Dutch national, aged 38.
>>>>
>>>> > --
>>>> > PB1...@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> yes that is correct it has been confirmed on the pressconference. it is 
>>>> a
>>>> native born dutchman with no relations to terrorist groups nor does he 
>>>> has a
>>>> recordfor mental illnis- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>
>>> EVEN IF THE DUTCH DID IT HE GIVE THE REASON TO THE ARABS FOR
>>> MASTURBATION THE DUTCH WHO MOURN THE ARABS WHO ENJOY!
>>
>> THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ARABS MY FRIEND, IT WAS A 38 YEAR OLD NATIVE 
>> DUCTCH WHO WENT CRAZY BECAUSE HE WAS RECENTLY FIRED AND COULD NO LONGER 
>> PAY THE RENTE FOR HIS HOUSE
>
>
>How on earth would this act help pay the rent?
>He'll be getting a rent free prison cell.
>Is he conscious now?-- 
>PB1952@gmail.com 
>
He died of his injuries.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:30 EDT 2009
Article: 2015998 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Smith" and the Auschwitz camp complex. 13 reasons to not swallow the HOAX.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 13:11:23 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:8pnlv4dafhq0vlco145avvjt0o16ui7a44@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:40:44 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:hvjjv4tca7d4pu4jaiuslksahecnr1hgtq@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:10:27 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>; "please"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:gt6bse$fem$1@pcls4.std.com...
>>>>>> In article ,
>>>>>> B.H. Cramer  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are photos of everything else from WWII,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is not one single photo of Soviet soldiers either
>>>>>> "killing" or "raping" German civilians.  None.  Zero.
>>>>>> Zilch.  Nada.  Nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Or of Jesus or Socrates or Alexander the Great!
>>>>>
>>>> LOL, Mavis, you don't suppose that part of the reason for that was
>>>> that photography wasn't invented until the middle of the 19th century,
>>>
>>>I am well aware of anachronisms. You seem to have missed the point 
>>>entirely.
>>>Historical anachronisms necessitate an absence of evidence of that type.
>>>This absence of evidence is not evidence of absence of the events or 
>>>people
>>>mentioned!
>>>
>>>
>>>> well before the time of Jesus, Socrates, or Alexander. Of these three,
>>>> only Socrates and Alexander have independent verification of their
>>>> existence.
>>>
>>>But while you demand certain rules for evidence for Jesus in history you
>>>have DIFFERENT rules for Alexander or Socrates! and even then you have yet
>>>to produce a single historical reference form even 150 years after 
>>>Alexander
>>>or Socrates let alone during their life. How do you know Socrates for
>>>example was not invented by Plato?
>>
>> Your abysmal ignorance of classical antiquity isn't my problem.
>
>But YES IT IS!
>
>You are the one saying that you have evidence for alexander from the Time of 
>alexander and that it is commonplace. But you have not produced any while at 
>the same time asking me to produce evidence contemporary to Jesus from 
>outside the New Testament. I did that! You didnt do it for Alexander or 
>Socrates!
>
>> There
>> are all manner of pieces of evidence out there that testify to the
>> physical existence of both Plato and Alexander the Great.
>
>Really? Can you produce a single contemporary doccument by socrates or by 
>someone else when they were alive about Socrates or alexander? I' ll bet you 
>cant! In spite of "all manner" of evidence you havent a single contemporary 
>doccument. Yet you expect to apply these rules to Jesus' existance in 
>history?
>
>>
>> Jesus Christ, on the other hand, is RELIGION, translated as ignorance,
>> superstition, fables, myths, and faith.
>
>WRONG! The historicity of Jesus and the alleged divinlty of Jesus are two 
>DIFFERENT issues.

This is true. You need to show that the guy existed in any form before
you can start on the "Jesus is god incarnate" hypothesis. 

>You are aware Alexander the Great was regarded as a god too? Does that mean 
>that because such fables of alexander being super natural existed that you 
>can conclude alexander never existed?

I don't believe that Alexander was a "god", other than in the minds of
his subjects.

> Why do you apply DIFFERENT STANDARDS 
>to the historicity of Jesus that you apply to alexander?

Nobody outside of Christian cult circles had heard of Christ, at least
not until the cult became big business. Lots of people knew of
Alexander, especially the King of Persia who kept suffering defeats at
his hands.

>
>> ALL human religions have the same validity, which is to say "not
>> much".
>
>Which has NOTHING to do with you being WRONG about your claim for no 
>historical evidence for Jesus outside of the New Testament!

Evidence for Jesus is all within the cult. There is nothing outside
the cult that can't be demolished in a few seconds.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:30 EDT 2009
Article: 2016000 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <2ZidnfbLgdbpKWvUnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com>  <14CdnQWOHtNDeGrUnZ2dnVY3go-dnZ2d@giganews.com>       
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On Sun, 3 May 2009 00:05:19 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:l6kov4dka3c2sak6qrciggp09abcqagje2@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 01 May 2009 08:45:30 -0400, in
>> , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 1 May 2009 08:04:22 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>> >news:qdjjv49t0tts0i4jkga23qg2ld1jgf9mvh@4ax.com...
>>> >> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:02:55 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >>>news:jA7Kl.238816$UR4.55594@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...
>>> >>>> On 4/29/2009 1:30 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>> >>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >>>>> news:ifdfv4pf4pnjhn0qdqtg150sva8g90vcum@4ax.com...
>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:46:56 +1000, in
>>> >>>>>> <2ZidnfbLgdbpKWvUnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >>>>>>  wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >>>>>>> news:kllcv4hc8ob7moit5asj7nuhlkrp08gqfq@4ax.com...
>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:09:57 +1000, in
>>> >>>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >>>>>>>>> news:2p69v4lp93oda5d3um74qpeeb72hg6fk5q@4ax.com...
>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 05:58:07 -0700, in
>>> >>>>>>>>>> <3hm8v4lqp2ll2rekc18fnf5a383eue2cqm@4ax.com>, Klaus
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Schadenfreude  wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns Tim Miller
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Klaus Schadenfreude" 
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in message
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:5is6v416ktfu2dkdgqbunkdig3o5qd6pth@4ax.com...
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns Topaz 
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Kevin MacDonald
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current situation in the United States is
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really an awesome display of Jewish power and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> influence.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ____ "Let's see: The Jews control the world. The
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nazis are illiterate, unemployable pedophiles. Hmmm, whom 
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I*
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to throw in my lot with...?"
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>  -Chris Morton, August 2001
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> He's a coon, ferfuckssake.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So, basically, EVERYONE kicks your girlie ass?
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> LOL!!
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> He's afraid of a coon? I think the nazi-wannabe club
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> needs a new spokesman!
>>> >>>>>>>>>> They are afraid of their shadows.
>>> >>>>>>>>> Coons are ALL shadow. They scare themselves silly.
>>> >>>>>>>> Ben has never met an insulting comment he didn't like.
>>> >>>>>>> What insult? Where?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> You are quite simply revolting.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Oh dear. An insult from the wee tooler complaining of another's
>>> >>>>> insulting behaviour.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I can see why you and Ebersdorf get along so well.  He is a traitor 
>>> >>>> to
>>> >>>> his people and a coward and you are an antisemite, a racist and a
>>> >>>> coward.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Anti-semite - I don't think I am but the yids have so labelled me - 
>>> >>>I'll
>>> >>>wear it with pride
>>> >>>Racist - Bullshit.
>>> >>>Coward - Bullshit.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>I see you as a traitor to Canada and the white race. I see you as a 
>>> >>>craven
>>> >>>coward. I also see you as a being racist, given you're more than happy 
>>> >>>to
>>> >>>support the ethnocentric, racist yids in everything they say and do.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>You're also a hypocrite and a teller/creator of porkies.
>>> >>
>>> >> LOL
>>> >>
>>> >> There seems to be no end to mcfee's stupidity.
>>> >
>>> >He's not stupid in the intellectual sense, but he's stupid to think he's 
>>> >on
>>> >the side of right.
>>>
>>> Self-deception would have been a better term than stupidity. McFee
>>> simply seems to uncritically accept everything anti-German nonsense he
>>> is told, something along the lines of that schadenfreude creep.
>>
>> What is that stench?  Oh, it is the coward Skaliks kissing Cramer's
>> ass.
>
>Shut up, gourd, you hate filled old twerp.
>
That certainly sums up poor pathetic gourd.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:31 EDT 2009
Article: 2016002 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 3 May 2009 00:07:35 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:g9kov4tdf1kkoosi1266lqvqpgp1qtp389@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 1 May 2009 12:48:50 +1000, in
>> <9tSdne5KTsaB_mfUnZ2dnVY3goSdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> news:88nkv4h7isq6diopm659hdsflnohvttdff@4ax.com...
>>> > On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:02:55 +1000, in
>>> > , "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >> news:jA7Kl.238816$UR4.55594@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...
>>> >> > On 4/29/2009 1:30 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>> >> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >> >> news:ifdfv4pf4pnjhn0qdqtg150sva8g90vcum@4ax.com...
>>> >> >>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:46:56 +1000, in
>>> >> >>> <2ZidnfbLgdbpKWvUnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >> >>>  wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >> >>>> news:kllcv4hc8ob7moit5asj7nuhlkrp08gqfq@4ax.com...
>>> >> >>>>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:09:57 +1000, in
>>> >> >>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >> >>>>>  wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >> >>>>>> news:2p69v4lp93oda5d3um74qpeeb72hg6fk5q@4ax.com...
>>> >> >>>>>>> On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 05:58:07 -0700, in
>>> >> >>>>>>> <3hm8v4lqp2ll2rekc18fnf5a383eue2cqm@4ax.com>, Klaus
>>> >> >>>>>>> Schadenfreude  wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns Tim Miller
>>> >> >>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>> B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> "Klaus Schadenfreude" 
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote in message
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> news:5is6v416ktfu2dkdgqbunkdig3o5qd6pth@4ax.com...
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns Topaz 
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> by Kevin MacDonald
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> The current situation in the United States is
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> really an awesome display of Jewish power and
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> influence.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> ____ "Let's see: The Jews control the world. The
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Nazis are illiterate, unemployable pedophiles. Hmmm, whom 
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> do
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> *I*
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> want to throw in my lot with...?"
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>  -Chris Morton, August 2001
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> He's a coon, ferfuckssake.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>> So, basically, EVERYONE kicks your girlie ass?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>> LOL!!
>>> >> >>>>>>>> He's afraid of a coon? I think the nazi-wannabe club
>>> >> >>>>>>>> needs a new spokesman!
>>> >> >>>>>>> They are afraid of their shadows.
>>> >> >>>>>> Coons are ALL shadow. They scare themselves silly.
>>> >> >>>>> Ben has never met an insulting comment he didn't like.
>>> >> >>>> What insult? Where?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> You are quite simply revolting.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Oh dear. An insult from the wee tooler complaining of another's
>>> >> >> insulting behaviour.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I can see why you and Ebersdorf get along so well.  He is a traitor 
>>> >> > to
>>> >> > his people and a coward and you are an antisemite, a racist and a
>>> >> > coward.
>>> >>
>>> >> Anti-semite - I don't think I am but the yids have so labelled me - 
>>> >> I'll
>>> >> wear it with pride
>>> >
>>> > You just proved it.  The Führer would be proud.
>>>
>>> Pretty thin "proof" old feller, but then - you are a Holocaust(tm) 
>>> promoter.
>>
>> *You* provided it.  One of your rare moments of telling the truth.
>
>Rare my arse. Truth is all that interests me ferchrissake.
>>
>>> >> Racist - Bullshit.
>>> >
>>> > "Coons are ALL shadow", says Ben Cramer.  QED.
>>>
>>> QED yourself, sunschein.
>>
>> Admission via sneer noted.
>
>No admission. No sneer. Lies from your end though.
>>
>>> >> Coward - Bullshit.
>>> >
>>> > You cut, you snip, you run away.  You are a coward.
>>>
>>> Nope. You accuse me of running. I don't.
>>
>> You do.  Just like your butt-buddy Skaliks.  You all run; it is a
>> requirement to be a denier trashie.
>
>More lies, delusion and sheer desperation. It's you twerps who are the 
>deniers laddie. You, who disallow critical examination of the Holocaust(tm).
>
>>
>>> >> I see you as a traitor to Canada and the white race. I see you as a
>>> >> craven
>>> >> coward. I also see you as a being racist, given you're more than happy 
>>> >> to
>>> >> support the ethnocentric, racist yids in everything they say and do.
>>> >
>>> > Heavens, poor Ben is quite annoyed.  Of course, he can't prove a
>>> > single one of his lies.
>>>
>>> I don't need to. You do it with your own posts.
>>
>> Evasion noted.  I provide proof; Ben provides lies.
>
>You provide nothing but the usual yid scripted, yid sanctioned shite.

LOL

Poor gourd is showing his desperation. He seems to have trotted out
the old skaliks drum again, despite having gotten no mileage with it
previously, he clearly has irrational faith that this dead horse will
yet get up and do some work for him.

>
>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:31 EDT 2009
Article: 2016005 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 17:24:23 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:p9slv4hesjk0q4hgqomqsb1iqvurcihf8c@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:22:32 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:l5kjv41stq52bo75s13g7crbr0uqqeqhpl@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:35:26 +0100, MavisBeacon
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:38:57 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:26ad5$49f59a2b$596480f8$9758@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:ftk9v4pvi7c33reejkug2gql8snht54uqt@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> I repeat, there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> New Testament. If you find some, you will become world famous
>>>>>>>>> overnight.
>>>>>>> WELL?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now that you were shown it what have you to say?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You haven't shown me anything worth squat.
>>>>>
>>>>>REally? Then why don't you go through the actual evidence I supplied you
>>>>>with and show how non Christian historians writing in the latter part of
>>>>>the first and early second century are not "contemporary" to Jesus who
>>>>>was executed in about 40 AD?
>>>>>
>>>>>>Church babble
>>>>>
>>>>>The evidence I supplied you with includes Roman (i.e. the Roman empire
>>>>>and NOT the Roman Catholic Church) and non christian and non Roman
>>>>>Catholic Church sources. All OUTSIDE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT!
>>>>>Your claim was "there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except
>>>>>the New Testament."
>>>>>
>>>>>Your claim was wrong!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >centuries
>>>>>> after the fact doesn't cut it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In addition to the above contemporary evidence you have also been given
>>>>>references ranging in history. I have asked you whether you can produce
>>>>>any writings contemporary to alaxender the great or socrates. You have
>>>>>utterlly FAILED to do so! By your reasoning alexander or Socrates never
>>>>>existed!
>>>>
>>>> Nonsense. Both Socrates and Alexander have huge personal
>>>> accomplishments that persisted for centuries after their deaths.
>>>
>>>LOL! And christianity didn't? LOL!
>>
>> Christianity
>
>in your unsupported opinion

The horrible world we now live in is the work of the Church of Rome.
There is a reason that Baptists refer to the Church of Rome as "the
mother of whores and of every evil on earth".

>
>> is just another silly human religion among hundreds.
>
>Which built things all over the world - huge accomplishments which are still 
>around today!
>
>>The
>> Church of Rome held back civilization for centuries with its ignorance
>> and superstition.
>
>The Church in the monatrries of the UK and Ireland PRESERVED all the 
>knowledge of the ancient world. 

Roman priests tended to destroy all the evidence of antiquity they
could lay their grubby hands on. Most of the writings of antiquity
still in existence were preserved by Islam and various other religions
of the Middle East.

>You know? All these writings you suggest you 
>can produce about Alexander? LOL! What a fool you are making of yourself!

I'm not the fool, Mavis. You are the one pushing RC superstitions as
"facts".

>
>
>>>
>>>Look. wher is your writings from the time of alexander or writings by
>>>Socrates?
>>>You haven't produced ANY evidence!
>>
>> It isn't my job to educate you, Mavis.
>
>But If you cant produce anything then you ave DOUBLE STANDARDS. You claim 
>about Alexcander and Socrates but have not provided even ONE piece of 
>evidence!
>
>>The evidence exists by the
>> tonne in any larger library.
>
>But you havent provided a microgramme of this so called evidence from the 
>time of alexandr and Socrates! And you wont! Because it does not exist!  I 
>doubt you can produce any writings fromn the time of alexander mentioning 
>him. The best anyone can do is copies of doccuments from centuries later. 
>which histporians do in fact accept as evidence. But for Jesus I did produce 
>non New TEstament evidence so you were additionally WRONG about that!
>You will certainly not supply ANY writings from Socrates since no such 
>writings ever existed even in the time of Socrates!
>
>>>
>>>>By
>>>> contrast, Jesus wrote nothing, built nothing, and only speaks via
>>>> disciples who wrote at least half a century after his death.
>>>
>>>WRONG! you have been shown evidence from ROMAN historians JEWISH and 
>>>others!
>>
>> There are no trial transcripts and no records that anybody meeting the
>
>You didnt ask for transcripts of meetings. You stated "outside of the New 
>Testament" there was NO evidence of any kind for Jesus! WRONG!
>
>> description of "Jesus of Nazareth" was ever charged with anything, let
>> alone crucified.
>
>So what. The is no transcript that Socrates was ever charged with anything. 
>does that mean he didnt take poision as a result of the trial?
>
>>>
>>>What did Socrates personally build?
>>
>> Socrates was a philosopher and teacher, not an architect.
>
>Oh and Jesus was not a teacher or Philosopher?
>>
>>>What did Socrates write?
>>
>>>Socrates only ever speaks through diciples.
>>>What writings about him or by him from his time survive?
>>
>> He was condemned by the assembly for allegedly corrupting the youth of
>> Athens.
>
>You have a record of that?
>
>>That was recorded, and constitutes proof of his existence.
>
>And where is this record from the time of Socrates?
>
>There are no "official records"
>Plato writes about the Trial in The Apology
>Plato's Apology is commonly regarded as the most reliable source of 
>information about the historical Socrates
>but Ill bet you cant find me a copy dating from the time of Socrates (399 
>BC)
>
>Ill bet you wont find one from 299 or 199 . You might find a copy around 
>99BC.
>>
>>>The best Ill bet you can do is supply something from AFTER the time of 
>>>Jesus
>>>when Jesus was already over 300 years after Socrates!
>>
>> Nonsense
>
>Well wher is your earliest copy of Plato's apology?
>and how does it prove he didnt just invent a Socrohoax?
>
>>
>>>>>  >You have no independent evidence.
>>>
>>>You have no independent evidence of socrates! I have shown you roman and
>>>Jewish hiostorians and non christians as well as non New testament 
>>>writings!
>>>Your claim about "nothing outside of the New Testament" is clearly WRONG!
>>
>> You're still spinning your wheels, Mavis, but going nowhere.
>
>Wher is your evidence? I shopwed you contemporary evidenc for Jesus but you 
>have nothing about Socrates or alexander written at the time they were 
>around!
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It is listed above. roman historians from the time of Jesus. Jewish
>>>>>ones. Heretics and athists in addition to christians wrote about Jesus.
>>>>>
>>>>>You have produced NOTHING about Alexander or Socrates from their time.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't, they did.
>>>
>>>You have produced NOTHING contemporary to Socrates by him!
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>You have No independent evidence of their existance!
>>>>
>>>> A whole raft of cities founded by Alexander are ample proof.
>>>
>>>No they aren't! How are they.
>>>If a "sacred heart of jesus" church exists in every city in the world does
>>>that therefore prove Jesus?
>>>
>>>> Persian
>>>> chronicles prove the existence of Alexander.
>>>
>>>What Persian Chronicles? Ill betr you can produce NONE from the time
>>>Alexander was meant to be alive!
>
>No persian chronicale yet!
>>>
>>>>Athenian chronicles prove
>>>> the existence of Alexander and of Socrates.
>>>
>>>What Athenian chronicles from the time of Alexander or Socrates? Again Ill
>>>bet you can produce no contemporary accounts! If you produce any they will
>>>most likely be from at least 300 years later. Yet you discount anything
>>>about Jesus from say 150 years after Jesus
>
>No "athenian chronicles" yet! I guess they are with your proof Auswhitz and 
>Jesus didnt exist?
>
>>>>
>>>>>According to you alexander and socrates never existed!
>>>>
>>>> More nonsense by Mavis.
>>>
>>>But the evidence is absent! Where are these Chronicles you claim that were
>>>written say in 330 BC when Alexander was meant to be around?
>>>Where is there anything ever written by Socrates?
>>>
>>>Yet you claim that if Jesus didn't write something or if someone from 
>>>around
>>>the same time as Jesus didn't refer to him then he didn't exist?
>>>
>>>You have double standards!
>
>Yep! Nothing from Socrates or Alexander but he will deny the Holocaust and 
>Jesus ever existed!
>
>Double standards! 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:32 EDT 2009
Article: 2016007 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 17:33:52 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:ppslv499h7g4o9954heqdfs82loie0r6pf@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:34:37 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:ljojv41b00q38lqjojjl16cp8sg2vhcv34@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:49:00 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:u84ev498qnsb7arf8ouceg7mptf2tjbuiv@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:38:57 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:26ad5$49f59a2b$596480f8$9758@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:ftk9v4pvi7c33reejkug2gql8snht54uqt@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>I repeat, there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except 
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>> New Testament. If you find some, you will become world famous
>>>>>>>>> overnight.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>WELL?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now that you were shown it what have you to say?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You haven't shown me anything worth squat. Church babble centuries
>>>>>> after the fact doesn't cut it. You have no independent evidence.
>>>>>
>>>>>Clement of Rome (c. 100),Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107-110), Justin 
>>>>>Martyr.
>>>>>Papias of Hierapolis
>>>>>Quadratus of Athens
>>>>>
>>>>>Josephus, Tacitus,
>>>>>Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger.
>>>>>(All Late first or early second century and NONE of them Christian)
>>>>
>>>> OK, I'm game. What did Tacitus write that was unambiguously about
>>>> Jesus?
>>>
>>>
>>>LOL! I note you added "unambiguous"! The point isnt whether Jesus Christed
>>>existed! The point you made what that no evidence outside of the New
>>>Testament esists! You were wrong!
>>
>> It isn't too bloody likely that I'm wrong. You are just the victim of
>> a rather primitive American education.
>
>My education is not a matter of debate. Nor would it matter . Nor if I am 
>male or female young or old disabled or healthy. What matters here is 
>whether you can support an UNSUPPORTED OPINION . You cant! I have supported 
>the opinion (not MY subjective opinion but THE opinion) that Jesus existed 
>in history. I supported it with reference to major sacholors on the time and 
>to written artefacts from times contemporary to Jesus. this is in addition 
>to the New testament.
>Having done so i asked you to provide the same standarsd to Alexander the 
>Great or Socrates two of the most famous people in history. you have fallen 
>far short of doin so by not producing ANY evidence and only saying "the 
>evidence exists"

You are not worth the time required to do what you demand. Your style
of debate is simple-minded harassment. I tell you that I'm going to
the store to buy a cone of ice-cream, and your response is "prove that
you can walk", prove that "cones exist", prove that "ice-cream"
exists. These exchanges are a waste of my time. The bottom line is
that you are entitled to believe in the existence of the tooth-fairy,
the sky-pixie, or any other thing you want. It is no skin off my nose
what you believe about anything, and I was merely pointing out why I
don't share your enthusiasm for RC superstitions. I have no obligation
to attempt to "prove" anything to you, nor do I really care whether
you believe me or not. I'm just stating the reasons I don't share your
beliefs.

It is the same with poor old gourd and mcvay. I don't mind that they
believe in the "geysers of blood" or the "jumping buckets of flesh"
accounts. That is their business. What I don't understand is why he
wants to force his beliefs onto others, specifically me,  by means of
threats, intimidation, and character assassination. Calling me various
names will not make me more inclined believe their stories, any more
than some RC priest calling me a heretic will make me want to convert
to Roman Catholicism.

>
>>
>>>
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Ancient_Creeds
>>>Tacitus (c. 56-c. 117), writing c. 116, included in his Annals a mention 
>>>of
>>>Christianity and "Christus", the Latinized Greek translation of the Hebrew
>>>word "Messiah". In describing Nero's persecution of this group following 
>>>the
>>>Great Fire of Rome c. 64, he wrote:
>>
>> Tacitus wasn't even born until after Christ's death.
>
>YOU ASKED ME to supply it!
>
>How do you know Plato was born when socrates was alive or that he didnt 
>Socrohoax socrates?
>
>Most of the people in the world today were not born before WWII. Are you 
>saying that should be banned form writing any history?
>You basiucally rule out ALL revisionism then?
>What a wally!
>
>>His comments are
>> about Christians, since the cult obviously existed already during his
>> lifetime.
>
>A cult following a "Christ"!
>
>>His writings could count as "proof" of the existence of the
>> cult, but not of the existence of Christ himself.
>
>So what would count as evidence for existance of Socrates?
>LOL! You are back to you "only court records count"
>There are nt any for Socrates!
>Theres nothing for alexander the Great either!
>
>Only the historians writing centuries later about the cult of Alexander!
>
>
>>>
>>>  Nero fastened the guilt of starting the blaze and inflicted the most
>>>exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called
>>>Christians [Chrestians] by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had
>>>its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius 
>>>14-37
>>>at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most
>>>mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not
>>>only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all
>>>things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre
>>>and become popular
>>>
>>>the vast majority of scholars conclude that the passage was written by
>>>Tacitus
>>>
>>>Flavius Josephus (c. 37-c. 100), a Jew and Roman citizen who worked under
>>>the patronage of the Flavians, wrote the Antiquities of the Jews in 93 
>>>AD..
>>>In these works, Jesus is mentioned twice.
>>>
>>>Pliny the Younger, the provincial governor of Pontus and Bithynia, wrote 
>>>to
>>>Emperor Trajan c. 112 concerning how to deal with Christians, who refused 
>>>to
>>>worship the emperor, and instead worshiped "Christus".
>>>
>>>  Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they 
>>> invoked
>>>the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to
>>>your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together 
>>>with
>>>statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ - none of which those who
>>>are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do - these I thought
>>>should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were
>>>Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had 
>>>ceased
>>>to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as
>>>twenty-five years. They all worshiped your image and the statues of the
>>>gods, and cursed Christ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Many of these people wrote at a time when the Christian
>>>> religion was already in existence, so they don't constitute proof of
>>>> Christ's physical existence.
>>>
>>>LOL! What a load of shite! You want people from BEFORE the time of Jesus
>>>now?
>>>
>>>I suppose you can produce someone from BEFORE alexander was born to prove
>>>alexander! LOL!
>>>
>>>Look! You can't produce a writing by someone who wrote at the time of
>>>socrates about Socrates or Alexander can you?
>>>Now I didn't say that I would reject any reference to anyone later writing
>>>about such a writing even if you can't produce it because I know about
>>>historical methodology with respect to ancient history. You obviously 
>>>don't
>>>!
>>>
>>>But Ill bet you cant produce a writing from a hundred years later and that
>>>the best you can do is produce something from about 350 years later
>>>referring to a lost earlier work.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>There is one reference to Thallus having written about the Crucifixion.
>>>>>
>>>>>Celsus wrote, about 180AD a book against the Christians.
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:33 EDT 2009
Article: 2016008 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 16:52:04 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:k6tlv4lrl0ompfmikl80kbejecrou8hufq@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 1 May 2009 09:07:53 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>news:1oWdndQGSJv0v2fUnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>> news:1b239$49f9fd64$596480f8$16053@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:tfkjv41ng0i1u04fj278n18vrfhac3c7dt@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:55:53 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>>>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is 
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> case you
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of
>>>>>>>>>>>> > shit
>>>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today,
>>>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>>>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for
>>>>>>>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>>>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be
>>>>>>>>>>>> arrested
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say
>>>>>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too 
>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Who are Butz and Finkelsein , what academic credentials do they 
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> how were they "canned" for questioning the Holocaust?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You really are as dumb as a box of rocks, girlie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You mentioned the names Butz and Finkelsein as cases of academics 
>>>>>>>being
>>>>>>>canned and you can't actually support your own claim. If you can't
>>>>>>>support
>>>>>>>your own claim don't try to attack the person asking you for the
>>>>>>>supporting
>>>>>>>evidence. It is a dead giveaway that you are a loser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know and understand what Ben is talking about, so why don't you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You cant SHOW you know unless you can show whom he is talking about and
>>>>> how it is a case of academics being canned for holocaust denial.
>>>>
>>>> It will take you seconds to find evidence of Butz and Finkelstein's
>>>> destruction,
>>>
>>>Then why can't you supply it since you claim it and you say the evidence 
>>>is
>>>there?
>>>You claim ity why should I have to do your work for you? especially if it 
>>>is
>>>untrue?
>>>
>>>> It is common knowledge among those with even a modicum of intelligence.
>>>
>>>It will take you seconds to find evidence of the Holocaust .
>>
>> It will take seconds for find holocaust fables and holocaust
>> propaganda. It is all over the place.
>
>So doubt so is you Alexander and socrates propaganda. All I see ids you 
>opinion and no evidence as yet. why should I believe you?

I never said that I wanted you to believe me. I don't give a flying
shit what you believe. I don't share your RC superstitions, but you're
welcome to them.

>
>>
>>>It is common
>>>knowledge to anyone intelligent or not (so you can count yourself in 
>>>there).
>>>But bigots like you apply double standards to that as well don't you?
>>>
>>>Where is the evidence to support your claims about lots of academics being
>>>canned?
>>
>> Christ all fucking mighty, Mavis, read a few books or newspapers.
>
>So that no evidence from you then?
>No surprises there!
>
>No evidence of Alexander or Socrates from their time either!
>
>But when it comes to Jesus and the Holocaust you can't accept the evidence 
>for the historical truth even if shown it! I surprised that you don't label 
>a historical Jesus as "Jewish propaganda" in spite of the fact that The Jews 
>were superseded and replaced by Christians. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:33 EDT 2009
Article: 2016009 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 16:54:08 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:11tlv4po9uqav60p4pvfu29va238nqach3@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:07:49 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:tfkjv41ng0i1u04fj278n18vrfhac3c7dt@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:55:53 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you
>>>>>>>>>> >>> know
>>>>>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is the
>>>>>>>>>> >>> case you
>>>>>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of 
>>>>>>>>>> > shit
>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, 
>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for
>>>>>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be 
>>>>>>>>>> arrested
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say 
>>>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much
>>>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who are Butz and Finkelsein , what academic credentials do they have
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> how were they "canned" for questioning the Holocaust?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You really are as dumb as a box of rocks, girlie.
>>>>>
>>>>>You mentioned the names Butz and Finkelsein as cases of academics being
>>>>>canned and you can't actually support your own claim. If you can't 
>>>>>support
>>>>>your own claim don't try to attack the person asking you for the
>>>>>supporting
>>>>>evidence. It is a dead giveaway that you are a loser.
>>>>
>>>> I know and understand what Ben is talking about, so why don't you?
>>>>
>>>
>>>You cant SHOW you know unless you can show whom he is talking about and 
>>>how
>>>it is a case of academics being canned for holocaust denial.
>>
>> Talking to you is like trying to explain calculus to a grade 3 pupil
>> who has just started basic addition and subtraction.
>>
>> You just don't have the knowledge base to partake in any meaningful
>> discussion about anything here.
>>
>> It isn't my assignment to educate you. Hire somebody.
>
>Try looking up "ad hominem" . It is a dead giveaway. when someone is LOSING 
>the argument they resort to attacking the person who has defeated them! Look 
>up"shifting the burden" while you are at it! 
>
There is no "argument". I was merely stating what I believe and why.
If that doesn't suit you, tough. I don't care what you might believe
about religion or the holocaust™, and I'm not out here to gain
converts. You keep attacking me for simply stating my positions on
various topics. I'm not debating you at all. I didn't ask for your
input. It was you who decided to give me your input whether I wanted
it or not, just like mcfee/mcvay.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:34 EDT 2009
Article: 2016011 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:   <4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie> <46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com>   <1b239$49f9fd64$596480f8$16053@news.upc.ie> <11tlv4po9uqav60p4pvfu29va238nqach3@4ax.com>  
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On Sat, 2 May 2009 07:48:53 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>news:f3df0$49fb24f3$596480f8$20622@news.upc.ie...
>>
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> news:11tlv4po9uqav60p4pvfu29va238nqach3@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:07:49 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>news:tfkjv41ng0i1u04fj278n18vrfhac3c7dt@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:55:53 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>>news:46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> know
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is 
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> case you
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of 
>>>>>>>>>>> > shit
>>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, 
>>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for
>>>>>>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be 
>>>>>>>>>>> arrested
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say 
>>>>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much
>>>>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found 
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Who are Butz and Finkelsein , what academic credentials do they have
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> how were they "canned" for questioning the Holocaust?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You really are as dumb as a box of rocks, girlie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You mentioned the names Butz and Finkelsein as cases of academics being
>>>>>>canned and you can't actually support your own claim. If you can't 
>>>>>>support
>>>>>>your own claim don't try to attack the person asking you for the
>>>>>>supporting
>>>>>>evidence. It is a dead giveaway that you are a loser.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know and understand what Ben is talking about, so why don't you?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You cant SHOW you know unless you can show whom he is talking about and 
>>>>how
>>>>it is a case of academics being canned for holocaust denial.
>>>
>>> Talking to you is like trying to explain calculus to a grade 3 pupil
>>> who has just started basic addition and subtraction.
>>>
>>> You just don't have the knowledge base to partake in any meaningful
>>> discussion about anything here.
>>>
>>> It isn't my assignment to educate you. Hire somebody.
>>
>> Try looking up "ad hominem" . It is a dead giveaway. when someone is 
>> LOSING the argument they resort to attacking the person who has defeated 
>> them! Look up"shifting the burden" while you are at it!
>
>Shut up. You've lost. You're as thick as pig shit.

Unlike mcfee/mcvay, who are paid to be obtuse, this poor woman comes
across as truly clueless and sincerely ignorant. It really is a waste
of time talking to her much longer.

>
>
>>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:35 EDT 2009
Article: 2016014 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:    <4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie> <46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com>   <1b239$49f9fd64$596480f8$16053@news.upc.ie> <11tlv4po9uqav60p4pvfu29va238nqach3@4ax.com> 
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On Sat, 2 May 2009 07:48:24 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:11tlv4po9uqav60p4pvfu29va238nqach3@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:07:49 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:tfkjv41ng0i1u04fj278n18vrfhac3c7dt@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:55:53 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you
>>>>>>>>>> >>> know
>>>>>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is the
>>>>>>>>>> >>> case you
>>>>>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of 
>>>>>>>>>> > shit
>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, 
>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for
>>>>>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be 
>>>>>>>>>> arrested
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say 
>>>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much
>>>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who are Butz and Finkelsein , what academic credentials do they have
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> how were they "canned" for questioning the Holocaust?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You really are as dumb as a box of rocks, girlie.
>>>>>
>>>>>You mentioned the names Butz and Finkelsein as cases of academics being
>>>>>canned and you can't actually support your own claim. If you can't 
>>>>>support
>>>>>your own claim don't try to attack the person asking you for the
>>>>>supporting
>>>>>evidence. It is a dead giveaway that you are a loser.
>>>>
>>>> I know and understand what Ben is talking about, so why don't you?
>>>>
>>>
>>>You cant SHOW you know unless you can show whom he is talking about and 
>>>how
>>>it is a case of academics being canned for holocaust denial.
>>
>> Talking to you is like trying to explain calculus to a grade 3 pupil
>> who has just started basic addition and subtraction.
>>
>> You just don't have the knowledge base to partake in any meaningful
>> discussion about anything here.
>>
>> It isn't my assignment to educate you. Hire somebody.
>
>Bravo.



I'm afraid that my frustration was starting to get to me. Talking to
Mavis is like trying to teach a swine to sing the American National
Anthem. It is an exercise in futility that frustrates the teacher and
clearly annoys the pig.

>
>
>
>>
>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:35 EDT 2009
Article: 2016016 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:    <4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie>  <1cdf0$49f9fd65$596480f8$16053@news.upc.ie>  <958b2$49fab519$596480f8$5225@news.upc.ie>  <8bc$49fb1199$596480f8$2935@news.upc.ie>
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Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2016016

On Fri, 1 May 2009 13:26:28 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>news:YZudnUjBfNBYJGfUnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>> news:958b2$49fab519$596480f8$5225@news.upc.ie...
>>>
>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>>> news:IqydndxifJbHuWfUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much 
>>>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Who are Butz and Finkelsein
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Holy fucking Moly, woman, do some research. Why are you wasting our
>>>>>> time?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why don't you do some research and look up the phrase "burden of 
>>>>> evidence"?
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you ever support your
>>> > shite with evidence, twat.
>>>
>>> I do -
>>> http://www.geocities.com/xenu_rules/misc-burden-of-proof.html
>>> http://education.gsu.edu/spehar/FOCUS/EdPsy/misc/Fallacies.htm
>>> http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance#Burden_of_proof
>>> http://www.zionism-israel.com/Fallacies/burden-of-proof.html
>>> http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/adhom/burden.html
>>
>> Then shut the fuck up and find what was done to Finkelstein and Butz for 
>> yourself.
>
>The above supports the position that THE PERSON MAKING THE CLAIM - i.e. = 
>YOU has to support their claim!

You are simply not worth that much effort. You were not invited to
this discussion, but chose to invite yourself. Neither Ben nor I have
any obligation to provide you with proof of anything.

>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:36 EDT 2009
Article: 2016017 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <4lbpv45jup59m2h80kj05tof7oenti5u54@4ax.com>
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 16:57:19 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:ugtlv49bgqgfmhhsvt3ebugvc727nbvla9@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 1 May 2009 09:12:23 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>news:IqydndxifJbHuWfUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much
>>>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Who are Butz and Finkelsein
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Holy fucking Moly, woman, do some research. Why are you wasting our
>>>>>> time?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why don't you do some research and look up the phrase "burden of
>>>>> evidence"?
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you ever support your
>>> > shite with evidence, twat.
>>>
>>>I do -
>>>http://www.geocities.com/xenu_rules/misc-burden-of-proof.html
>>>http://education.gsu.edu/spehar/FOCUS/EdPsy/misc/Fallacies.htm
>>>http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance#Burden_of_proof
>>>http://www.zionism-israel.com/Fallacies/burden-of-proof.html
>>>http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/adhom/burden.html
>>>
>> Nizkor's propaganda offerings don't quite make it as "evidence" of
>> anything except that the holocaustT industry has a lot of money at its
>> disposal.
>
>The Nizkor definition happens to agree with and antiscientology definition, 
>two  third level educational institutiona and wikipedia.
>
>They are all Jewish too I suppose?
>One can look at christian sites (NOT JEWISH) and especially atheist sites 
>(also non Jewish) for similar definitions!
>
>LOL! What a joke you are making of yourself.

Being a devout RC, it is clear that you are prone to believing in
fables, so Nizkor would be your kind of site.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:36 EDT 2009
Article: 2016018 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <9yCJl.24611$Db2.22407@edtnps83> <02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu>    <4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie>  <1cdf0$49f9fd65$596480f8$16053@news.upc.ie>  <2da8$49fb24f6$596480f8$20622@news.upc.ie>
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 17:00:11 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:tctlv45bb4m55s59j06j0jilrdn6cf545n@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:09:58 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:udkjv4l78l1i1mdqihuimn5rbquc7d3s4b@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:58:48 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you 
>>>>>>>> >>> know
>>>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is the
>>>>>>>> >>> case
>>>>>>>> >>> you
>>>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of shit
>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, and
>>>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for
>>>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be arrested
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say the
>>>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much
>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found that
>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>>
>>>>>Who are Butz and Finkelsein
>>>>
>>>> Holy fucking Moly, woman, do some research. Why are you wasting our
>>>> time?
>>>
>>>
>>>Why don't you do some research and look up the phrase "burden of 
>>>evidence"?
>>>I didn't make the claim.
>>>If YOU make a claim then YOU supply the evidence.
>>
>> Nobody is making a "claim".
>
>" Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind" is a claim based on the 
>question
>Can name [an academic canned for holocaust Denial] and prove it [i.e. that 
>they were accused and canned].
>
>>The trials and tribulations of both Butz
>> and Finkelstein have been widely reported in all manner of different
>> media. Your ignorance isn't either my problem or Ben's.
>
>Yes it is.
>and since the Holocaust and Jesus are also widely reported on your ignorance 
>of it isnt this groups problem.

Carefully read the name of the group, and you will realize that you
are an unwelcome interloper that is trying to force their bizarre
interpretations of history onto the participants. Can you not get it
through your thick head that I have no interest in what you believe or
have to say?  If I wanted to hear what you have to say, I could visit
a whole bunch of groups, such as soc.culture.jewish where your views
would be the standard.

Your presence here, just like mcfee/mcvay, is in the role of disrupter
and saboteur.


>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>What can I expect next? Are you going to claim Unicorns got canned for
>>>Holocaust denial and then when I ask you to show evidence of Unicorns you
>>>try the "do your own research" to support your empty claim?
>
>LOL! which is exactly what you did!
>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:36 EDT 2009
Article: 2016020 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yad Vashem Counts the Same "Victims" Many Times
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 2 May 2009 13:25:52 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:7soov454uf47nvgag6i6visaoq5se0sc3g@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 1 May 2009 22:17:13 -0400, in
>> , "Neil Harrington"
>>  wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Hitler posed no threat to the west. All of his territotial ambitions were 
>>> to
>>> the east.
>>
>> Whenever I am asked why I say that deniers are simply stupid, it is
>> quotes like this one that require no elaboration.
>>
>> All of Hitler's territorial ambitions were to the *east*.  Hmmm...
>> France, Belgium, Holland, Britain, Denmark, Norway.  Poor stupid
>> deniers.
>
>Britain and France declared war on Germany, not the other way around. Hitler 
>certainly did not want that war. Belgium lay between France and Germany and 
>since France had declared war it was the obvious route for German advance, 
>just as it had been 20 years before. (Duh.) Norway was invaded by Germany to 
>prevent its invasion by Britain, which the British obviously (and logically) 
>intended to do. The Germans simply beat them to it, and not by much. Holland 
>and Denmark were likely possibilities for British beachheads.
>
>Your "simply stupid" are the people who don't grasp these rather elementary 
>facts, Gord. I take it that you pride yourself on being among them. 
>
Your analysis makes perfectly good sense, but unfortunately, logic
isn't poor gourd's strong point.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:37 EDT 2009
Article: 2016028 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Eisenhower on mass exodus westward of German inhabitants. High mortality rates.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 01 May 2009 18:49:25 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>A good friend of mine was in a Siberian concentration camp where the 
>Russians worked the prisoners to dead. When they were released they did have 
>most of the walk all the way to Germany. At one time while passing thru 
>Czechoslovakia the were greeted by the Czechs with some basin of fresh 
>water. He himself did drink out of a thirty ditch most of the others did die 
>because the water was poisoned. My rend name was Herman Schmitt and his wife 
>and kids can tell you all about it.

There is a reason that Bavarian school kids got out of their seats and
cheered when the news came in during 1968 that the Soviets had invaded
Czechoslovakia and were crushing Czechs under their tank treads. It
couldn't happen to nicer people.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>
>"Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in message 
>news:de7d5423-55ac-4af0-93d2-48db6756902d@h11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>On May 1, 12:31 pm, Zulu  wrote:
>> Eisenhower Telegram to the War Department,
>> 18 October 1945
>> (National Archives, Washington, D.C., RG165)
>>
>> At the conclusion of World War II more than fifteen million Germans
>> were driven from their homes in central and eastern Europe. It has
>> been estimated that 2,111,000 Germans died directly as a result of
>> these mass expulsions. The primary reference on this subject is:
>> Alfred M. de Zayas, "Nemesis at Potsdam: The Expulsion of the Germans
>> from the East" (University of Nebraska Press) Lincoln and London -
>> ISBN 0-8032-9907-9.
>>
>> WAR DEPARTMENT
>> CLASSIFIED MESSAGE CENTER
>> INCOMING CLASSIFIED MESSAGE
>>
>> TOP SECRET TOT
>>
>> PRIORITY
>>
>> CRYPTOGRAPHIC SECURITY DOES NOT APPLY. HANDLE AS TOP SECRET
>> CORRESPONDENCE PER PARAS 44g AND 53a AR 380-5
>>
>> From: CG US Forces European Theater Main Frankfurt Germany
>> To: War Department
>> Nr: S 28399..... 18 October 1945
>>
>> S 28399 to for action War Dept for G 2 attn Major General Clayton
>> Bissell from Hqs US Forces European Theater Main from Connor from
>> Sibert sgd Eisenhower cite ETGBI. TOP SECRET.
>>
>> Detailed reports from reliable observers including an officer from G 2
>> Div confirm indications of critical situation developing in area
>> Silesia and eastern Germany.
>>
>> In Silesia, Polish administration and methods are causing a mass
>> exodus westward of German inhabitants. Germans are being ordered out
>> of their homes and to evacuate New Poland. Many unable to move are
>> placed in camps on meager rations and under poor sanitary conditions.
>> Death and disease rate in camps extremely high. Germans who attempt to
>> hold onto homes and land are terrorized into "Voluntary" evacuation.
>> Methods used by Poles definitely do not conform to Potsdam agreement.
>> Polish administration disorganized in Silesia and no security exists
>> for inhabitants of region.
>>
>> Due to mass migrations into Brandenberg and Saxony, health conditions
>> in these regions tragically low. There is unprecedented lack of food,
>> medical supplies, and doctors. Reasonable estimates predict between
>> 2.5 and 3 million victims of malnutrition and disease between Oder and
>> Elbe by next spring.
>>
>> CM-IN-8742 (18 Oct 45)
>>
>> WAR DEPARTMENT
>> CLASSIFIED MESSAGE CENTER
>> INCOMING CLASSIFIED MESSAGE
>>
>> TOP SECRET TOT
>>
>> Page 2
>>
>> From: CG US Forces European Theater, Main Frankfurt Germany
>> Nr: S28399 18 October 1945
>>
>> Breslau death rate increased ten fold, and death rate reported to be
>> 75% of all births. Typhoid, typhus, dysentery, and diphtheria are
>> spreading.
>>
>> Total number potentially involved in westward movement to Russian Zone
>> of Germany from Poland and Czechoslovakia in range of 10 million.
>> Estimate 65 to 75 per cent already departed or on the road westward.
>> No coordinated measures yet taken to direct stream of refugees into
>> specific regions or provide food and shelter. Tendency of refugees is
>> to move into cities, and cities of Saxony, especially are becoming
>> dangerously over crowded. Attention is invited in this connection to
>> serious danger of epidemic of such great proportion as to menace all
>> Europe, including our troops, and to probability of mass starvation
>> unprecedented scale.
>>
>> Copies of special reports for your information are being forwarded by
>> Mail Annex Nbr 3 to our Special Intelligence Bulletin Nbr 3 gives a
>> preview of this problem.
>>
>> End
>>
>> ACTION : Gen Bissell
>>
>> INFO: Gen Arnold, Gen Hull, C of S
>>
>> CM-In-8742 (18 Oct 45) DTG 181435A da
>>
>> TOP SECRET
>>
>> http://www.codoh.com/incon/inconeisen.html
>
>My mother and her parents had their door knocked on one day.  They
>were given a few hours to gather possesions and leave.  There was no
>alternative given to them.  They were taken in by another villager.
>They stayed there for one year.  Then they were deported.  Through
>Czechoslovakia  Where a mob tried to storm their train.  Luckily,
>Czech troops kept the mob at bay.  Their story is interesting, but no
>one indoctrinated by the main stream media wants to hear it.
>Their house was inhabited by ethnic Hungarians who had been kicked out
>of Czechoslovakia. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:37 EDT 2009
Article: 2016029 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Eisenhower on mass exodus westward of German inhabitants. High  mortality rates.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 12:03:25 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On May 1, 2:49 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> A good friend of mine was in a Siberian concentration camp where the
>> Russians worked the prisoners to dead. When they were released they did have
>> most of the walk all the way to Germany. At one time while passing thru
>> Czechoslovakia the were greeted by the Czechs with some basin of fresh
>> water. He himself did drink out of a thirty ditch most of the others did die
>> because the water was poisoned. My rend name was Herman Schmitt and his wife
>> and kids can tell you all about it.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>
>The Czechs were especially brutal.  To people who had not caused them
>any harm.

Czechs were and are disgusting.

>
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in messagenews:de7d5423-55ac-4af0-93d2-48db6756902d@h11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 1, 12:31 pm, Zulu  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Eisenhower Telegram to the War Department,
>> > 18 October 1945
>> > (National Archives, Washington, D.C., RG165)
>>
>> > At the conclusion of World War II more than fifteen million Germans
>> > were driven from their homes in central and eastern Europe. It has
>> > been estimated that 2,111,000 Germans died directly as a result of
>> > these mass expulsions. The primary reference on this subject is:
>> > Alfred M. de Zayas, "Nemesis at Potsdam: The Expulsion of the Germans
>> > from the East" (University of Nebraska Press) Lincoln and London -
>> > ISBN 0-8032-9907-9.
>>
>> > WAR DEPARTMENT
>> > CLASSIFIED MESSAGE CENTER
>> > INCOMING CLASSIFIED MESSAGE
>>
>> > TOP SECRET TOT
>>
>> > PRIORITY
>>
>> > CRYPTOGRAPHIC SECURITY DOES NOT APPLY. HANDLE AS TOP SECRET
>> > CORRESPONDENCE PER PARAS 44g AND 53a AR 380-5
>>
>> > From: CG US Forces European Theater Main Frankfurt Germany
>> > To: War Department
>> > Nr: S 28399..... 18 October 1945
>>
>> > S 28399 to for action War Dept for G 2 attn Major General Clayton
>> > Bissell from Hqs US Forces European Theater Main from Connor from
>> > Sibert sgd Eisenhower cite ETGBI. TOP SECRET.
>>
>> > Detailed reports from reliable observers including an officer from G 2
>> > Div confirm indications of critical situation developing in area
>> > Silesia and eastern Germany.
>>
>> > In Silesia, Polish administration and methods are causing a mass
>> > exodus westward of German inhabitants. Germans are being ordered out
>> > of their homes and to evacuate New Poland. Many unable to move are
>> > placed in camps on meager rations and under poor sanitary conditions.
>> > Death and disease rate in camps extremely high. Germans who attempt to
>> > hold onto homes and land are terrorized into "Voluntary" evacuation.
>> > Methods used by Poles definitely do not conform to Potsdam agreement.
>> > Polish administration disorganized in Silesia and no security exists
>> > for inhabitants of region.
>>
>> > Due to mass migrations into Brandenberg and Saxony, health conditions
>> > in these regions tragically low. There is unprecedented lack of food,
>> > medical supplies, and doctors. Reasonable estimates predict between
>> > 2.5 and 3 million victims of malnutrition and disease between Oder and
>> > Elbe by next spring.
>>
>> > CM-IN-8742 (18 Oct 45)
>>
>> > WAR DEPARTMENT
>> > CLASSIFIED MESSAGE CENTER
>> > INCOMING CLASSIFIED MESSAGE
>>
>> > TOP SECRET TOT
>>
>> > Page 2
>>
>> > From: CG US Forces European Theater, Main Frankfurt Germany
>> > Nr: S28399 18 October 1945
>>
>> > Breslau death rate increased ten fold, and death rate reported to be
>> > 75% of all births. Typhoid, typhus, dysentery, and diphtheria are
>> > spreading.
>>
>> > Total number potentially involved in westward movement to Russian Zone
>> > of Germany from Poland and Czechoslovakia in range of 10 million.
>> > Estimate 65 to 75 per cent already departed or on the road westward.
>> > No coordinated measures yet taken to direct stream of refugees into
>> > specific regions or provide food and shelter. Tendency of refugees is
>> > to move into cities, and cities of Saxony, especially are becoming
>> > dangerously over crowded. Attention is invited in this connection to
>> > serious danger of epidemic of such great proportion as to menace all
>> > Europe, including our troops, and to probability of mass starvation
>> > unprecedented scale.
>>
>> > Copies of special reports for your information are being forwarded by
>> > Mail Annex Nbr 3 to our Special Intelligence Bulletin Nbr 3 gives a
>> > preview of this problem.
>>
>> > End
>>
>> > ACTION : Gen Bissell
>>
>> > INFO: Gen Arnold, Gen Hull, C of S
>>
>> > CM-In-8742 (18 Oct 45) DTG 181435A da
>>
>> > TOP SECRET
>>
>> >http://www.codoh.com/incon/inconeisen.html
>>
>> My mother and her parents had their door knocked on one day.  They
>> were given a few hours to gather possesions and leave.  There was no
>> alternative given to them.  They were taken in by another villager.
>> They stayed there for one year.  Then they were deported.  Through
>> Czechoslovakia  Where a mob tried to storm their train.  Luckily,
>> Czech troops kept the mob at bay.  Their story is interesting, but no
>> one indoctrinated by the main stream media wants to hear it.
>> Their house was inhabited by ethnic Hungarians who had been kicked out
>> of Czechoslovakia.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:38 EDT 2009
Article: 2016030 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What exactly is the evidence against Demjanjuk?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 10:55:16 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>
>http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE54052020090501

The moral of the story seems to be that U.S. citizenship simply isn't
worth the paper on which it is printed. Americans of Japanese descent
already found that out during WW2.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:38 EDT 2009
Article: 2016032 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What exactly is the evidence against Demjanjuk?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 01 May 2009 18:52:53 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>The show must go on , who will they finger next. as for the court proceeding 
>in Germany I would say the world would be kept in dark.

Germany operates on Roman Law, so the accused is assumed guilty on
arrest, and is required to prove that the charges are unwarranted. It
makes it a hell of a lot easier to get convictions, and explains the
better than 98% conviction rates in many German courts, especially
those that specialize in propaganda offences.


>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in message 
>news:3240901f-440c-4335-b2dc-87cf4223067b@k41g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE54052020090501 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:38 EDT 2009
Article: 2016033 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What exactly is the evidence against Demjanjuk?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <3240901f-440c-4335-b2dc-87cf4223067b@k41g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>  <9yHKl.26173$PH1.3166@edtnps82> <4b4c95e1-a4e7-4e14-9219-f56d3dcca125@x3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 12:42:04 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On May 1, 2:52 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> The show must go on , who will they finger next. as for the court proceeding
>> in Germany I would say the world would be kept in dark.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in messagenews:3240901f-440c-4335-b2dc-87cf4223067b@k41g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE54052020090501
>
>Question:  How many Jews perished during WWII?
>Question:  How many Americans perished during WWII?
>Question:  How many Soviets perished during WWII?
>Question:  How many Japs perished during WWII?
>
>And so on.  The answer is this:  Everyone knows how many Jews perished
>in WWII.  Yet very very few know how many Americans died; how many
>Japs died; how many innocent Germans died; how many Estonians died.
>etc.
>Why is that?

One is also allowed to argue about numbers regarding any figures but
the fabled six million.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:39 EDT 2009
Article: 2016034 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: J'accuse! An indictment of academic historians for their  unprofessional attitude to documenting the Holocaust
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 1 May 2009 11:03:45 -0700 (PDT), Zulu 
wrote:

>J'accuse! An indictment of academic historians for their
>unprofessional attitude to documenting the Holocaust
>
>
>Historians sometimes think of themselves as truthtellers and
>iconoclasts. One Canadian historian, for example, places the following
>quotation from Khrushchev as an epigraph at the head of her website:
>
>'Historians are dangerous people. They are capable of upsetting
>everything.'(1)
>
>Yet this is only true of real historians, those who are prepared to
>tell the truth about the past without fear or favour. It is doubtful
>that more than a handful of such historians have appeared in any given
>century.

Most historians, sadly, are just apologists for the people in power.
The Soviets believed that history was bunk designed to deceive the
masses for the benefit of the people in power. That same attitude
seems to reign in the western countries also.

>
>Certainly, there is little reason to attribute to academic historians
>today either truthtelling or iconoclastic potential. Indeed, it is
>hard to think of a single academic historian who has ruffled a
>politician's feathers in a very long time, let alone one who has
>rocked a political establishment.(2) The risks of genuine scholarly
>independence, such as loss of tenure, the loss of prestige,
>professional and social ostracism, and the loss of a means of
>livelihood are so great that they ensure that most academics conform
>to the expectations of their peers and the heads of their
>institutions.
>
>One only has to be aware of the trials and tribulations of New Zealand
>historian Joel Hayward, whose 1991 M.A. thesis gave a fair, and in
>certain respects sympathetic assessment of Holocaust revisionism, to
>appreciate the fact that an historian who upsets things has no future
>in academia.(3) In 2002, Hayward was forced by the pressure of the
>controversy over his M.A. to resign his tenured position as a Senior
>Lecturer in Defence and Strategic Studies at Massey University,
>Canterbury, N.Z. Although Hayward is now employed again (apparently by
>a British military college), his website trumpets the fact that he is
>a 'NON-REVISIONIST scholar.' In short, if Hayward is working as an
>historian again today, it is only because these days he flaunts his
>non-revisionism and his philo-Zionism. (He maintains, for example,
>that 'Israel clearly has a right to exist within its current
>borders.') Given that his latest book is about Lord Nelson, it also
>looks like a condition of his current employment is that he stays well
>away from WWII-related subjects.
>
>The result for Hayward is probably the BEST that could be expected for
>any academic who shows even the slightest objectivity in relation to
>the Holocaust. Today, academic historians are the zealous watchdogs of
>orthodoxy, the political religion of post-WWII liberal democracy.
>Subscribing to this religion is now mandatory - we are talking about
>an orthodoxy that is as rigidly enforced as any in any historical
>period, not excluding under dictatorships such as those of Hitler and
>Stalin.
>
>Although this political religion lacks a name, its dogmas - which
>comprise the core of what most ordinary people think they know about
>modern history - include the following:
>
>1. The Nazi regime was the most evil which has ever existed.
>
>2. Hitler was the most evil man who has ever lived.
>
>3. Hitler and the Nazis cannot be viewed negatively enough because
>they perpetrated the most evil crime ever perpetrated, the Holocaust.
>This was an evil plan, the most evil ever devised, to exterminate the
>Jews. The plan was the fruit of Hitler's radical anti-semitism.
>
>4. WWII was a good war because it led to the overthrow of Hitler and
>the Nazis. It doesn't matter an iota how many people were killed in
>the war, because the removal of the Nazi regime was a good at any
>price.
>
>5. Winston Churchill is one of the greatest men in history because
>only he realized how truly evil the Nazis were. If it wasn't for him,
>England may never gone to war with Germany and the Nazi regime might
>not have been overthrown, with consequences too terrible to even think
>about.
>
>6. Stalin was nearly as bad as Hitler, but at least he didn't try to
>exterminate the Jews and at least he helped overthrow the Nazis.
>However, he did confine many of his political enemies to gulags, which
>were pretty much the same things as concentration camps, so he was
>still very, very bad.
>
>7. Hitler and Stalin headed totalitarian regimes of right and left
>respectively.
>
>8. Because both leftwing and rightwing totalitarianism are so bad, the
>only viable political alternative to either is liberal democracy.
>
>9. Because liberal democracy overthrew Hitler and the Nazis, it proves
>just how virtuous and benevolent it is.
>
>10. You cannot say anything good about Hitler. If you do, it means you
>are a crypto-Nazi and therefore as bad as Hitler yourself.
>
>11. It is not permissible to say anything that would suggest that Nazi
>crimes were not as bad as historians maintain. If you do, it means you
>are seeking to 'minimise' Nazi crimes. Anyone who seeks to 'minimise'
>Nazi crimes has to be a crypto-Nazi. On the other hand, you are
>allowed to say that Nazi crimes were even worse than historians
>previously maintained. While it is not permissible to 'minimize' Nazi
>crimes, it is permissible, indeed actually encouraged, to maximise
>them, even if you're lying.
>
>12. It is not permissible to say anything bad about Jews, who have
>always and everywhere been totally innocent and unfairly persecuted.
>To criticise Jews is to engage in anti-semitism, and no matter how
>different the circumstances may be anti-semitism always has the
>potential to trigger another Holocaust.
>
>13. Under no circumstances can you say that WW II was fought for the
>benefit of the Jews. You have to say that it was fought for
>'democracy.'
>
>14. Since the Allies' aim was to overthrow the Nazi dictatorship,
>nothing the Allies did during the war, no matter how heinous, and
>whether it was done to the Germans or to someone else, can
>legitimately be construed as a 'war crime.' To describe an act of the
>Allies as a war crime is to suggest that there is no inherent moral
>difference between Allied acts and Nazi acts. To even suggest that the
>Allies could have committed war crimes is a sign of crypto-Nazism.
>
>15. The Nuremberg trials were a massive leap forward for human moral
>development, as war criminals were prosecuted as such for the first
>time.
>
>Of course, academic historians do not teach these dogmas in the same
>open and honest way that, say, a Catholic priest teaches the dogmas of
>the Catholic church. Rather, because students come to University
>already steeped in the modern political religion academic historians
>are free to assume them and their writings constitute large-scale
>elaborations of them. The dogmas are perpetuated not by being taught
>explicitly, but by ensuring that they are the only conclusions that
>can legitimately be drawn from history.
>
>Of all the dogmas I have just described, the only one which might be
>regarded as open to debate is whether Hitler was worse than Stalin.
>Some people would insist that Stalin was worse, since his regime
>killed many more people. However, the idea that the Holocaust is the
>most evil crime ever perpetrated tends to reinforce the conclusion
>that Hitler was worse, although the obvious implication - that Jewish
>lives are worth more than Russian lives - is left unuttered (because
>drawing attention to the fact that Jewish lives are to be regarded as
>more important than other people's lives is something that you would
>only do if you were motivated by anti-semitism).
>
>Of all the dogmas of the political religion whose caretakers academic
>historians have become, by far the most important - perhaps because
>it's also the least defensible - is dogma #3: that Hitler and the
>Nazis implemented a programme for the extermination of the Jews.
>
>Academic historians are complicit in the perpetuation of this
>political dogma mainly by omission - that is to say, by neglecting to
>do their jobs properly. They 1) overlook the fact that there is no
>material evidence to support the Holocaust hypothesis and 2) take for
>granted the authenticity of the documents which they cite, in lieu of
>material evidence, as proof that the Nazis tried to exterminate the
>Jews.
>
>Let me expand on these two points:
>
>1. The utter disregard of material evidence
>
>Academic historians normally treat material (i.e., physical) evidence
>as conclusive (unless, of course, it is subsequently proven to be
>inauthentic). For example, if a Roman map did not show a city in a
>certain location, but archaeologists discovered Roman-era ruins at
>this location, historians would conclude that there had been a city
>there in Roman times, not that the city could not possibly have been
>there because it wasn't mentioned in Roman documents. Conversely, if a
>town was drawn at an identifiable location on a Roman map and
>archaeologists had failed to turn up so much as a potsherd at that
>place, most historians would conclude that the mapmaker had made a
>mistake, not that the mapmaker was right and that all traces of the
>settlement had been obliterated by the ravages of time.
>
>Yet in the case of the Holocaust, the dearth of material evidence for
>the existence of large-scale extermination programme is not perceived
>as significant. It is assumed that the Nazis destroyed their vast
>death machinery so thoroughly as to preclude all possibility of
>postwar detection. It is not permissible to express doubts as to
>whether the Nazis could really have eliminated all material evidence
>so completely, including making the ashes of six million people vanish
>from the locations at which they must have been interred. To think
>such doubts is to engage in thought crime; and to verbalize the
>doubts, hate crime.
>
>It is therefore more acceptable for academic historians today to
>assume that the Nazis had magical powers - that is, the ability to
>make material evidence disappear beyond hope of recovery, even by
>means of the most sophisticated modern technology - than it is to
>conclude that the lack of material evidence supports the allegations
>of Holocaust revisionists.
>
>2. A cavalier attitude towards documentary evidence
>
>Given the non-existence of material evidence, documentary evidence is
>obviously critical to reasoned belief in the Holocaust. While the
>majority of the public seems happy to accept eyewitness testimonies as
>a sufficient basis for their exterminationist beliefs, for scholars
>'the faintest ink is usually a more reliable foundation for historical
>analysis than the strongest memory.'(4)
>
>Holocaust scholars seem to be divided on the question of whether
>documents exist that refer to the alleged Nazi programme for the
>extermination of the Jews. In Harvest of Hate (1979), Léon Poliakov
>specifically avers that with respect to this programme 'no documents
>have survived, perhaps none ever existed.”'(5) Yet on the back cover
>of Steve Hochstadt's Sources of the Holocaust (2004), the author
>Judith Magyar Isaacson is quoted as saying that that Hochstadt's
>collection 'documents [the Holocaust's] perpetration with painstaking
>accuracy.'
>
>Although Isaacson is clearly exaggerating here - if there were such
>documents it is hard to see how Poliakov could not have been aware of
>them - there does seem to be a growing tendency to assert that a
>corpus of Holocaust documents exists which, while far less complete
>that we would like, is nonetheless adequate for the purpose of
>affirming the existence of a Nazi extermination programme.
>
>Unfortunately, academic historians have failed to concern themselves
>with the question of the authenticity of the documents they cite as
>evidence for the Holocaust. They neglect such crucial matters as the
>provenance of the documents, the accuracy with which they have been
>translated, and whether their meanings are being construed fairly.
>
>A striking but never discussed fact about Holocaust historiography is
>that its key documents are all of unproven authenticity. Most of the
>documents academic Holocaust historians have taken to citing are, in
>fact, no more than mere transcriptions. By far the majority appeared
>for the first time during the Nuremberg trials, and were prepared for
>the court by the Documentation Division of the Office of the U.S.
>Chief of Counsel (OCC) in Paris, an organization that subsumed the
>OSS's Evidence Collection and Analysis Section in London. In other
>words, many if not most of the documents used in the Nuremberg trials
>originated with the OSS, the wartime precursor of the CIA.
>
>Very little is known about either the OSS's Evidence Collection and
>Analysis Section or the OCC's Documentation Division. Matters such as
>the provenance of the documents cited at Nuremberg are apparently of
>little interest to historians generally. To my knowledge, no
>historians go beyond the transcriptions which were used during the
>postwar war crimes trials to seek out original documents - something
>which would be inexcusable in almost any other avenue of historical
>enquiry.
>
>To be sure, one reason for this is that in most cases it is impossible
>to say where the originals are held today, if indeed they exist at
>all. Carlos Whitlock Porter, an American-born professional translator
>who apparently today lives in Germany, is the only person I know of
>who has looked into this matter, and he has established that no
>institution acknowledges possessing any original documents:
>
>'The standard version of events is that the Allies examined 100,000
>documents and chose 1,000 which were introduced into evidence, and
>that the original documents were then deposited in the Peace Palace at
>The Hague. This is rather inexact. ... The Hague has few, if any,
>original documents. The Hague has many original postwar "affidavits,"
>or sworn statements, the Tribunal Commission transcripts, and much
>valuable defense material. They have the "human soap," which has never
>been tested, and the "original human soap recipe" (Document USSR-196),
>which is a forgery; but apparently no original wartime German
>documents. ... The National Archives in Washington ... claim that the
>original documents are in The Hague. The Hague claims the original
>documents are in the National Archives. The Stadtsarchiv Nurnberg and
>the Bundesarchiv Koblenz also have no original documents, and both say
>the original documents are in Washington. Since the originals are, in
>most cases, "copies," there is often no proof that the documents in
>question ever existed.'(6)
>
>The reality, therefore, is that the bulk of the 'evidence' for the
>Holocaust derives from a corpus of documents that was expressly
>manufactured by the OSS and OCC in 1945-46 for the purpose of
>incriminating the leaders of the former German government at
>Nuremberg. The procedure went roughly along these lines: the
>Documentation Division in Paris created 'copies' (in English only),
>certified them as true, and sent them to the prosecution in Nuremberg,
>while the original documents (if they ever existed) were never seen or
>heard of again. German translations of the original English texts were
>then prepared and sent to the defense in Nuremberg, where they arrived
>as late as possible so that the defense had insufficient time to worry
>about such matters as their authenticity.
>
>Few professional historians can be unaware that original documents and
>only original documents qualify as evidence. Without access to the
>original of the document it professes to transcribe, there is no way
>for an historian to tell whether a given transcription is accurate.
>Transcriptions may conceal interpolations and excisions, while
>translations can involve interpolations, excisions, misleading
>translations and even the fabrication of entire passages. Many
>Holocaust documents can legitimately be suspected of being wholesale
>fabrications.
>
>Although many documents were certainly fabricated, the Documentation
>Division in Paris seems rarely to have been required to forge
>documents. The procedure followed at Nuremberg, which assigned
>evidentiary value to mere 'copies,' avoided the need for original
>documents. The defence, on the other hand, had no power to insist that
>original documents be used.
>
>The real problem was the risk of authentic documents coming to light
>which would contradict the fabricated documents. We can assume that as
>the Nuremberg trials proceeded authentic documents that had the
>potential to create conflicts with forged documents were secreted away
>in inaccessible locations. Given the fact that an extremely large
>proportion of the total corpus of Nazi documents remains inaccessible
>to historians even today - historians have probably never had access
>to more than a small sample of the documents captured by the Allies in
>the closing stages of the war - we can safely assume that most
>original documents that would resolve questions concerning the
>Holocaust are destined never to be made public. Many may even have
>been destroyed in order to ensure the enduring success of the hoax.
>(If it was a hoax, of course. A theoretical possibility is that
>genuine documents had to be suppressed for another reason, perhaps
>because they point to the complicity of the U.S. corporations that
>worked hand in glove with the Nazis during the war.)
>
>Another potential problem was the appearance of individuals associated
>with the Nazi regime who would have had the ability to expose the OSS/
>OCC documents as fabrications. The need to prevent this from ever
>happening would explain why, starting in May 1945 with the alleged
>suicides of SS-General Hans-Adolf Prützmann, SS head Heinrich Himmler
>and SS-General Odilo Globocnik while in British captivity, there
>followed a bizarre string of murders of individuals associated with
>the Auschwitz concentration camp. (These were perpetrated by a Jewish
>hit squad known as the DIN.) As Joseph Bellinger, author of a new book
>on Himmler's murder, points out, within six months or so of the war's
>end practically any one who could have shed light on the Jewish policy
>of the Third Reich was murdered!’(7) This, it must be said, was
>extremely convenient for the prosecution at Nuremberg.
>
>So we therefore encounter a striking paradox. Although the Holocaust
>is considered by many historians to be the central event of the 20th
>century and also one of the most important events in history, the
>standards which are applied to the study of the Holocaust are lower
>than those which would apply in, for example, a minor property dispute
>in a local court. Yet if the Holocaust is to be elevated to its
>present status as central event of the 20th century, it is obvious
>that it must meet a higher standard of proof, not a lower one.
>
>To be blunt: if historians are going to tell people that the Holocaust
>is one of the most important events in history, they better have
>overwhelming evidence to back up their extraordinary claims. So far,
>though, they have not lived up to their responsibility. Despite the
>gravity of the subject, which demands the greatest scrupulousness,
>they remain suspiciously cavalier about documenting the Holocaust, as
>though it were the one historical event that transcends the
>historian's craft.
>
>In the case of the rush to impute to the Nazis a programme for the
>extermination of millions of people which has implausibly left no
>material traces, all the normal rules of historiography seem not only
>to have been suspended, but to have been violated over and over again.
>Historians routinely cite documents from secondary works like Raul
>Hilberg's The Destruction of the European Jews (1961) or from printed
>collections of documents, such as Robert Wolfe's Holocaust: The
>Documentary Evidence - but they never cite original documents.
>
>http://www.blogigo.co.uk/socialdemocracynow/accuse-indictment-academic-historians-for-their-unprofessional/45/


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:40 EDT 2009
Article: 2016159 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 2 May 2009 15:26:49 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>news:wOWdnWi1IPzb8GbUnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>> news:18957$49fb24f8$596480f8$20622@news.upc.ie...
>>>
>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>>> news:ppslv499h7g4o9954heqdfs82loie0r6pf@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:34:37 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:ljojv41b00q38lqjojjl16cp8sg2vhcv34@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:49:00 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:u84ev498qnsb7arf8ouceg7mptf2tjbuiv@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:38:57 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:26ad5$49f59a2b$596480f8$9758@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:ftk9v4pvi7c33reejkug2gql8snht54uqt@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>I repeat, there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere except 
>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>> New Testament. If you find some, you will become world famous
>>>>>>>>>>> overnight.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>WELL?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Now that you were shown it what have you to say?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You haven't shown me anything worth squat. Church babble centuries
>>>>>>>> after the fact doesn't cut it. You have no independent evidence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Clement of Rome (c. 100),Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107-110), Justin 
>>>>>>>Martyr.
>>>>>>>Papias of Hierapolis
>>>>>>>Quadratus of Athens
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Josephus, Tacitus,
>>>>>>>Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger.
>>>>>>>(All Late first or early second century and NONE of them Christian)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, I'm game. What did Tacitus write that was unambiguously about
>>>>>> Jesus?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>LOL! I note you added "unambiguous"! The point isnt whether Jesus 
>>>>>Christed
>>>>>existed! The point you made what that no evidence outside of the New
>>>>>Testament esists! You were wrong!
>>>>
>>>> It isn't too bloody likely that I'm wrong. You are just the victim of
>>>> a rather primitive American education.
>>>
>>> My education is not a matter of debate. Nor would it matter .
>>
>> It most certainly does matter, dearie. You have given every indication 
>> your education was basic if not all but non-existent. You are capable of 
>> nothing else but introducing red herrings into debate and whining.
>
>I submit you couldnt distinguish between a red herring and a kipper.
>Ad hominem is not debate. 
>
Nobody is debating you, Mavis.

People are stating their beliefs and the reasons for those beliefs. If
you cannot accept the reasons, then tough. Nobody owes you an
explanation, let alone a proof. You invited yourself here unwanted,
and you are also free to leave any time.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:41 EDT 2009
Article: 2016160 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 2 May 2009 15:21:22 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>news:vNydnasOSJQ282bUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> news:eatlv4t0edm4o45gsvm0ncied1svv0dkdh@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 1 May 2009 08:11:45 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>news:b1a69$49f99dd4$596480f8$22128@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>
>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you
>>>>>>>>>> >>> know that
>>>>>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is the
>>>>>>>>>> >>> case you
>>>>>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of 
>>>>>>>>>> > shit
>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, 
>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for
>>>>>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be 
>>>>>>>>>> arrested
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say 
>>>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much
>>>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who are Butz and Finkelsein , what academic credentials do they have 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> how were they "canned" for questioning the Holocaust?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You really are as dumb as a box of rocks, girlie.
>>>>>
>>>>> You mentioned the names Butz and Finkelsein as cases of academics being
>>>>> canned and you can't actually support your own claim.
>>>>
>>>>What the fuck are you blathering about?
>>>
>>> She probably would have difficulty distinguishing her arse from a hole
>>> in the wall. I figure that interactions with her are a waste of time.
>>> She just doesn't know anything about the subject at hand.
>>
>> She has a single trick. That of trying to bend the conversation to the 
>> only topic she seems interested it - Socrates and Alexander.
>>
>Not at all. I picked Socrates and Alexander because they were about the same 
>time as Jesus.

LOL, that sums up the quality of your stuff. Socrates was born 469 BC
and died around 400 BC, so he was hardly a contemporary of Christ.
Alexander was born 356 BC and died 323 BC. By your loose time-keeping
you could claim to be a contemporary of Shakespeare. You're a total
arsehole and you are now going on my ignore file.

Bye







> It arose out of you pals WRONG claim abut "no evidence of 
>Jesus outside of the New Testament" I produced evidence and he tried to jump 
>through all sorts of hoops and change his original claim! But then I picked 
>someone from that time who is world famous Socrates. Or Alexander if you 
>wish. Anyone from ancient history would do. Pilate for example. how do you 
>know he existed? Or any king of any City from 300 BC to the time of Christ? 
>When faced with supplying ORIGINAL writings from the time that person was 
>alive or by someone else who was alive when they were (which was asked as 
>evidence for Jesus) he utterly failed to produce ANY!
>
>You haven't much of a clue about historical scholarship and revisionism!
>
>The more general point being made was that apart from denying the WWII 
>Holocaust you seemed incapable of discussing anything else in history. No 
>wonder. when faced with discussing any other historical event you are shown 
>up as inept! 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:41 EDT 2009
Article: 2016162 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 3 May 2009 21:19:25 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>news:2689d$49fd6aea$596480f8$9807@news.upc.ie...
>>
>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>> news:vNydnasOSJQ282bUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>>> news:eatlv4t0edm4o45gsvm0ncied1svv0dkdh@4ax.com...
>>>> On Fri, 1 May 2009 08:11:45 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:b1a69$49f99dd4$596480f8$22128@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:46GdnSA0oK5A7mTUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:G9qdnU9faI8XoGTUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:eq2iv4hs7ehnmij0gebt3pla3u232qls8e@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:20:11 +1000, in
>>>>>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Anonymous"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:02df9c5c5b991ab6c90cef0560f4482d@mixmaster.nymu.eu...
>>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:29 +0000, Truthseeker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> I am of the opinion that you are a Holocaust denier, that you
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> know that
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> if you openly state on an international stage that that is 
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> case you
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> can be arrested by international warrant
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > I live in the USA. If I think that the holohoax is a crock of 
>>>>>>>>>>> > shit
>>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>>> > say so here, are you telling me that if I am identified today, 
>>>>>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>>>>> > visit
>>>>>>>>>>> > Germany or Austria in the future, I can be arrested there for
>>>>>>>>>>> > 'denying
>>>>>>>>>>> > the holohoax' or whatever it is called?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Publish your thoughts along those lines and yes, you can be 
>>>>>>>>>>> arrested
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> Germany and many other countries for dissing the Holocaust(tm).
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > And that can happen even though it is legal in the USA to say 
>>>>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>>>>> > holohaox is a crock of shit?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too much
>>>>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found 
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to mind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Who are Butz and Finkelsein , what academic credentials do they have 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> how were they "canned" for questioning the Holocaust?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You really are as dumb as a box of rocks, girlie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mentioned the names Butz and Finkelsein as cases of academics 
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> canned and you can't actually support your own claim.
>>>>>
>>>>>What the fuck are you blathering about?
>>>>
>>>> She probably would have difficulty distinguishing her arse from a hole
>>>> in the wall. I figure that interactions with her are a waste of time.
>>>> She just doesn't know anything about the subject at hand.
>>>
>>> She has a single trick. That of trying to bend the conversation to the 
>>> only topic she seems interested it - Socrates and Alexander.
>>>
>> Not at all. I picked Socrates and Alexander because they were about the 
>> same time as Jesus.
>
>You tried to deflect the conversation.
>
>That is called deceit.
>
It is also ridiculous, since Alexander died more than three centuries
before the traditional date for Christ's birth, and Socrates more than
four centuries earlier.

Poor Mavis is totally clueless.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:41 EDT 2009
Article: 2016163 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <6vjrv45kp214eei7hauh27t8q7t8ktgif2@4ax.com>
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On Sun, 3 May 2009 21:19:47 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>news:3ecee$49fd6aeb$596480f8$9807@news.upc.ie...
>>
>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>> news:jOCdnZ3micR78GbUnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>>> news:8bc$49fb1199$596480f8$2935@news.upc.ie...
>>>>
>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:YZudnUjBfNBYJGfUnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:958b2$49fab519$596480f8$5225@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:IqydndxifJbHuWfUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> much noise
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to 
>>>>>>>>>>> mind.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Who are Butz and Finkelsein
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Holy fucking Moly, woman, do some research. Why are you wasting our
>>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why don't you do some research and look up the phrase "burden of 
>>>>>>>> evidence"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why don't you ever support your
>>>>>> > shite with evidence, twat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do -
>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/xenu_rules/misc-burden-of-proof.html
>>>>>> http://education.gsu.edu/spehar/FOCUS/EdPsy/misc/Fallacies.htm
>>>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance#Burden_of_proof
>>>>>> http://www.zionism-israel.com/Fallacies/burden-of-proof.html
>>>>>> http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/adhom/burden.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Then shut the fuck up and find what was done to Finkelstein and Butz 
>>>>> for yourself.
>>>>
>>>> The above supports the position that THE PERSON MAKING THE CLAIM - i.e. 
>>>> = YOU has to support their claim!
>>>
>>> You first, twat.
>>
>> sorry NO! You don't seem to understand logic.
>
>BBBWWWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>
>
LOL

Meanie! We all know that the poor woman is an airhead, but it isn't
nice to laugh at the disabled.

ROTFLMAO


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:42 EDT 2009
Article: 2016164 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Victims" Count - What variance - Cremation data.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <4c71f$49f96963$596480f8$9879@news.upc.ie>  <1cdf0$49f9fd65$596480f8$16053@news.upc.ie>  <958b2$49fab519$596480f8$5225@news.upc.ie>    <5f2f6$49fd6aed$596480f8$9807@news.upc.ie> 
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On Sun, 3 May 2009 21:20:44 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>news:5f2f6$49fd6aed$596480f8$9807@news.upc.ie...
>>
>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>> news:WoqdnYp_2L2P8mbUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message 
>>> news:ee073$49fb24f4$596480f8$20622@news.upc.ie...
>>>>
>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:ugtlv49bgqgfmhhsvt3ebugvc727nbvla9@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Fri, 1 May 2009 09:12:23 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>>news:IqydndxifJbHuWfUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even in the US you will get your arse canned if you make too 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about questioning the Holocaust(tm).  Many academics have found 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out -
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hard way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not that you can name one and prove it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You lying old turd. Butz and Finkelstein come immediately to 
>>>>>>>>>>> mind.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Who are Butz and Finkelsein
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Holy fucking Moly, woman, do some research. Why are you wasting our
>>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why don't you do some research and look up the phrase "burden of
>>>>>>>> evidence"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why don't you ever support your
>>>>>> > shite with evidence, twat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I do -
>>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/xenu_rules/misc-burden-of-proof.html
>>>>>>http://education.gsu.edu/spehar/FOCUS/EdPsy/misc/Fallacies.htm
>>>>>>http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html
>>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance#Burden_of_proof
>>>>>>http://www.zionism-israel.com/Fallacies/burden-of-proof.html
>>>>>>http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/adhom/burden.html
>>>>>>
>>>>> Nizkor's propaganda offerings don't quite make it as "evidence" of
>>>>> anything except that the holocaustT industry has a lot of money at its
>>>>> disposal.
>>>>
>>>
>> The Nizkor definition happens to agree with and antiscientology 
>> definition,
>> two  third level educational institutiona and wikipedia.
>
>Que? Looks like English but I can't understand a word of it.
>>
>> They are all Jewish too I suppose?
>> One can look at christian sites (NOT JEWISH) and especially atheist sites
>> (also non Jewish) for similar definitions!
>>
>> LOL! What a joke you are making of yourself.
>
>So sorry, dearie. That would be you.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> 
Her gobble-de-gook is reminiscent of "Doc Tony". Perhaps the "Doc" has
taken to wearing dresses?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:42 EDT 2009
Article: 2016165 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Historical revisionism is the great intellectual adventure of the end of the 20th century. R. Faurisson.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 3 May 2009 11:09:48 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"ZuLu"  wrote in message 
>news:49fcc76b$1@news.x-privat.org...
>> Of course, for myself I would never have known what is revisionism without 
>> the public bashing of Roger Garaudy and the Abbe Pierre in France.
>
>I would never have known of revisionism had it not been for the likes of 
>mcFey, mcFee, wolk, goldman, salzman, roger et al, who attacked me en masse 
>when I dared ask a couple of innocuous questions about their precious 
>Holocaust(tm).
>
>I wonder how many other revisionists/doubters they have created directly as 
>a result of their insane obsession with defending the indefensible, their 
>overt hatred and their nastiness?

The mcfee/mcvay crew is the closest thing one can have to a "denier
factory" since they are so good at alienating people. It is pretty
hard to warm up to the shrill hysteria emanating from those two. If
one had no doubts beforehand, one certainly will have them after being
subjected to those two clowns.

>
>
>
>
>>
>> As the reason of such treatment was never given on the media (beside 
>> naming him a "negationist"), that fact awoke my curiosity about the topic 
>> and I read the Garaudy's book on the net "The Founding Myths of Israeli 
>> Politic".
>>
>> That started my interest for the technical aspect of the "gas chambers". 
>> It was a revelation for me.
>>
>> The Garaudy's affair in France, 1996.
>>
>> Reply to the Media Lynching of Abbe Pierre and Roger Garaudy, 1996
>> http://www.radioislam.net/islam/english/books/garaudy/zimythgarpamph1.htm
>>
>> The Founding Myths of Israeli Politic by Roger Garaudy
>> http://www.codoh.com/zionweb/zionmythgar.html
>>
>> Truthseeker escribió:
>>> I just wonder who they will victimise next who is questioning the 
>>> holocaust. They claim making public the holocaust is creating hatred jet 
>>> it is them who continue with their hate mongering forever. forcing others 
>>> who are questioning the holocaust is counter productive.
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>> Kurt Knoll
>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:42 EDT 2009
Article: 2016166 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: why heinrich is still very sad
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <06lrv4dlelo8nq2f4k4n5s0h0ifrp0qj56@4ax.com>
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On Sun, 3 May 2009 11:05:14 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>
>"I'll Always Be 3/05/09"  schreef in bericht 
>news:aussies_suck-BAA669.01574703052009@aries.ka.weretis.net...
>> In article
>> <764p2qF1a6iapU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> "Heinrich" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "I'll Always Be 3/05/09"  schreef in 
>>> bericht
>>> news:aussies_suck-7E6DB1.21582202052009@aries.ka.weretis.net...
>>> > In article
>>> > <764k92F1atu0nU2@mid.individual.net>,
>>> > "Heinrich" 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> "I'll Always Be 2/05/09"  schreef in
>>> >> bericht
>>> >> news:aussies_suck-3B4653.10551802052009@aries.ka.weretis.net...
>>> >> > In article
>>> >> > <762hm7F1aspbiU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>> >> > "Heinrich" 
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> The attack on the royal family
>>> >> >> during the Queen's Day
>>> >> >> celebrations means the day will
>>> >> >> never be the same again, according
>>> >> >> to editorials and comment in the
>>> >> >> Dutch newspapers.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> 'A national illusion died in
>>> >> >> Apeldoorn,' is the headline on a
>>> >> >> Volkskrant article on the attack.
>>> >> >> 'We will never see it like this
>>> >> >> again, a queen and her family,
>>> >> >> free and approachable... A
>>> >> >> national illusion died on April
>>> >> >> 30, 2009... the party of folklore
>>> >> >> - the only real national day of
>>> >> >> celebration - has been hit hard.'
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> 'The collection of curiosities in
>>> >> >> the category 'only in the
>>> >> >> Netherlands' is one attraction
>>> >> >> poorer. Foreigners who are
>>> >> >> surprised by ministers who cycle
>>> >> >> to their offices, a prime minister
>>> >> >> eating a herring alone at the fish
>>> >> >> stall next to parliament - it is
>>> >> >> all gone,' the paper states.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Symbol of unity
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> The Financieele Dagblad says
>>> >> >> events in Apeldoorn were an
>>> >> >> 'attack on a vulnerable symbol of
>>> >> >> unity'.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Your vision of unity is as corrupt as
>>> >> > your postings. Welcome to reality.
>>> >> >
>>> >> it  has an enourmous inpact on this society my friend
>>> >
>>> > Sorry, but the idea of royalty died out
>>> > centuries ago.
>>>  tell that to napoleon bonaparta if he had not lost the battle of 
>>> waterloo
>>> we would never have had a royalty
>>
>> Blame who you want, but royalty is just
>> so old fashioned and worthless
> the same can be told about a presidency, royalty is part ofour local 
>culture. it cost a lot ofmoney but so is it also when you have a president. 

Heads of state are always expensive, regardless of the format that the
office takes. Having a republic in England, for example, would
probably not save that much money.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:43 EDT 2009
Article: 2016167 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WW II : RARE COLOR FILM : BATTLE FOR GERMANY
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 2 May 2009 13:32:48 -0700 (PDT), george 
wrote:

>On May 2, 10:34 pm, StarDust  wrote:
>
>The usual revisionist rubbish ignoring those films taken at the death
>camps when they were liberated...
>
>And the Germans usage of total war came back to haunt them at the end.
>Look up Nancy Wake.
>Her only regret was that she hadn't killed enough Germans at the end
>of the war
>

Thanks for trotting out low-lifes such as Nancy Wake, since it makes
me even more certain that your stories constitute a hoax. All your
accusations against National Socialist officials amount to naught when
you trot out even worse people on the allied side.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:43 EDT 2009
Article: 2016168 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WW II : RARE COLOR FILM : BATTLE FOR GERMANY
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 2 May 2009 21:42:58 -0700 (PDT), george 
wrote:

>On May 3, 9:00 am, StarDust  wrote:
>> On May 2, 1:32 pm, george  wrote:
>>
>> > On May 2, 10:34 pm, StarDust  wrote:
>>
>> > The usual revisionist rubbish ignoring those films taken at the death
>> > camps when they were liberated...
>>
>> You mean those Allie propaganda films?
>> Delousing chamber at Dachau, presented as gas chamber?
>> Typhus victims at Bergen Belsen, presented as German's mass murder?
>> Time wake up little Holo boy!
>
>Riiiight. All those incredibly thin people were just pretending that
>they were starving eh ?

Your usual argument is that they were gassed, and now suddenly you're
singing a different tune. The corpses shown in the "liberation"
photographs were clearly not gassed. No victim of gassing has ever
been found.

>
>> > And the Germans usage of total war came back to haunt them at the end.
>>
>> You are a loony guy, German total war was forced upon them, by the
>> Brits, French and Russia.
>
>Germany invaded Poland!

So did the USSR, but they are entitled to as much Polish land as they
wish, whereas Germany reclaiming stolen territory is the crime of the
millennium. Allied stories are almost always hypocritical and
inconsistent.

>After they were told that such an action would lead to war.

The NS officials were clearly mistaken when they figured that the
leaders in France and Britain had IQs larger than their shoe size. The
Anglo-French action destroyed both the British and the French empires,
which is likely the exact reason that Roosevelt encouraged them to go
that route in the first place. After all the smoke had cleared, it was
the USA that was now the world hegemon and not Britain any longer.





From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:43 EDT 2009
Article: 2016331 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
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On Mon, 4 May 2009 09:47:48 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:k0jrv4dcckktb7tvt0vj181gt6sk5jete5@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 2 May 2009 15:26:49 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>news:wOWdnWi1IPzb8GbUnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>> news:18957$49fb24f8$596480f8$20622@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:ppslv499h7g4o9954heqdfs82loie0r6pf@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:34:37 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:ljojv41b00q38lqjojjl16cp8sg2vhcv34@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:49:00 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:u84ev498qnsb7arf8ouceg7mptf2tjbuiv@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:38:57 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>"Mavisbeacon"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>news:26ad5$49f59a2b$596480f8$9758@news.upc.ie...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ftk9v4pvi7c33reejkug2gql8snht54uqt@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I repeat, there is no record of Christ's existence anywhere 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>except
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> New Testament. If you find some, you will become world famous
>>>>>>>>>>>>> overnight.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>WELL?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Now that you were shown it what have you to say?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You haven't shown me anything worth squat. Church babble centuries
>>>>>>>>>> after the fact doesn't cut it. You have no independent evidence.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Clement of Rome (c. 100),Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107-110), Justin
>>>>>>>>>Martyr.
>>>>>>>>>Papias of Hierapolis
>>>>>>>>>Quadratus of Athens
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Josephus, Tacitus,
>>>>>>>>>Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger.
>>>>>>>>>(All Late first or early second century and NONE of them Christian)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK, I'm game. What did Tacitus write that was unambiguously about
>>>>>>>> Jesus?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>LOL! I note you added "unambiguous"! The point isnt whether Jesus
>>>>>>>Christed
>>>>>>>existed! The point you made what that no evidence outside of the New
>>>>>>>Testament esists! You were wrong!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It isn't too bloody likely that I'm wrong. You are just the victim of
>>>>>> a rather primitive American education.
>>>>>
>>>>> My education is not a matter of debate. Nor would it matter .
>>>>
>>>> It most certainly does matter, dearie. You have given every indication
>>>> your education was basic if not all but non-existent. You are capable of
>>>> nothing else but introducing red herrings into debate and whining.
>>>
>>>I submit you couldnt distinguish between a red herring and a kipper.
>>>Ad hominem is not debate.
>>>
>> Nobody is debating you, Mavis.
>
>Who is this "nobody" whom you claim is debating me?
>
>>
>> People are stating their beliefs and the reasons for those beliefs.
>
>I haven't seen any coherent REASONS yet! where are they?
>
>>If
>> you cannot accept the reasons, then tough.
>
>Nothing to do with me. If they are REASONED they should stand on their own!
>
>>Nobody owes you an
>> explanation, let alone a proof.
>
>Sorry but if it is reasonable then you owe REASON the evidence and proof!
>
>>You invited yourself here unwanted,
>> and you are also free to leave any time.
>
>So what? You don't own the internet now do you Netcop naziboi?

Insults from an ignorant Catholic cunt don't wash. I am neither Nazi
(vanished before my time) nor am I a boi, but factual details have
never been a high priority for Catholic cunts.

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri May  8 12:39:44 EDT 2009
Article: 2016334 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Smith" and the Auschwitz camp complex. 13 reasons to not swallow the HOAX.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 4 May 2009 11:38:51 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:in8pv41ma9o9k0ibtf63r9nnejkh8o88s6@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 1 May 2009 13:11:23 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:8pnlv4dafhq0vlco145avvjt0o16ui7a44@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:40:44 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:hvjjv4tca7d4pu4jaiuslksahecnr1hgtq@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:10:27 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>; "please"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:gt6bse$fem$1@pcls4.std.com...
>>>>>>>> In article ,
>>>>>>>> B.H. Cramer  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are photos of everything else from WWII,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is not one single photo of Soviet soldiers either
>>>>>>>> "killing" or "raping" German civilians.  None.  Zero.
>>>>>>>> Zilch.  Nada.  Nothing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Or of Jesus or Socrates or Alexander the Great!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL, Mavis, you don't suppose that part of the reason for that was
>>>>>> that photography wasn't invented until the middle of the 19th century,
>>>>>
>>>>>I am well aware of anachronisms. You seem to have missed the point
>>>>>entirely.
>>>>>Historical anachronisms necessitate an absence of evidence of that type.
>>>>>This absence of evidence is not evidence of absence of the events or
>>>>>people
>>>>>mentioned!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> well before the time of Jesus, Socrates, or Alexander. Of these three,
>>>>>> only Socrates and Alexander have independent verification of their
>>>>>> existence.
>>>>>
>>>>>But while you demand certain rules for evidence for Jesus in history you
>>>>>have DIFFERENT rules for Alexander or Socrates! and even then you have 
>>>>>yet
>>>>>to produce a single historical reference form even 150 years after
>>>>>Alexander
>>>>>or Socrates let alone during their life. How do you know Socrates for
>>>>>example was not invented by Plato?
>>>>
>>>> Your abysmal ignorance of classical antiquity isn't my problem.
>>>
>>>But YES IT IS!
>>>
>>>You are the one saying that you have evidence for alexander from the Time 
>>>of
>>>alexander and that it is commonplace. But you have not produced any while 
>>>at
>>>the same time asking me to produce evidence contemporary to Jesus from
>>>outside the New Testament. I did that! You didnt do it for Alexander or
>>>Socrates!
>>>
>>>> There
>>>> are all manner of pieces of evidence out there that testify to the
>>>> physical existence of both Plato and Alexander the Great.
>>>
>>>Really? Can you produce a single contemporary doccument by socrates or by
>>>someone else when they were alive about Socrates or alexander? I' ll bet 
>>>you
>>>cant! In spite of "all manner" of evidence you havent a single 
>>>contemporary
>>>doccument. Yet you expect to apply these rules to Jesus' existance in
>>>history?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jesus Christ, on the other hand, is RELIGION, translated as ignorance,
>>>> superstition, fables, myths, and faith.
>>>
>>>WRONG! The historicity of Jesus and the alleged divinlty of Jesus are two
>>>DIFFERENT issues.
>>
>> Thi