Archive/File: people/g/gritz.bo gritz.dat

From ubc-cs!destroyer!caen!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!sgi!cdp!cberlet Mon Sep 21 08:14:02 PDT 1992
Article: 10888 of alt.activism
Path: oneb!ubc-cs!destroyer!caen!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!sgi!cdp!cberlet
From: cberlet@igc.apc.org (NLG Civil Liberties Committee)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Complete PART report on Bo Gritz
Message-ID: <1296500372@igc.apc.org>
Date: 20 Sep 92 16:29:00 GMT
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Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cberlet    Sep 20 09:29:00 1992


From: NLG Civil Liberties Committee 
Subject: Complete PART report on Bo Gritz

/* Written  9:28 am  Sep 20, 1992 by cberlet in cdp:publiceye */
/* ---------- "Complete PART report on Bo Gritz" ---------- */


FRONT MAN FOR FASCISM: "Bo" Gritz and the Racist Populist Party

A Background Research Report

by People Against Racist Terror (PART), Burbank, California

Copyright 1992, PART

    | For more information about the campaign to oppose Gritz and 
    | the Populists, contact PART, People Against Racist Terror, 
    | P.O. Box 1990, Burbank CA 91507

======================================================================
This is the  text of the PART report on Bo Gritz. A previous 
unauthorized edited version containing less than half of the full text 
of the PART report was circulated previously on electronic networks. 
That text should deleted and replaced with this complete version, 
which includes the PART address. Only circulate the full text.
======================================================================


FRONT MAN FOR FASCISM: "Bo" Gritz and the Racist Populist Party

     Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas. "Bo" Gritz and his
supporters must know the truth of this bit of country common
sense.

     Yet four years ago, Bo Gritz (rhymes with Knights)
accepted a nomination to run for Vice-President of the United
States on a ticket with "former" Ku Klux Klan grand dragon
David Duke, from the Populist Party. And now, Bo is preparing
to run as the Populist Party candidate for President in 1992. In
1988, Bo had the good sense to resign from the ticket and run for
Congress from Nevada instead. But even as neo-nazi David
Duke parlayed the credibility he got from his Populist
presidential run into electoral success in Louisiana as a
Republican, Bo Gritz has attached himself irrevocably to the
Populist Party as its candidate for President.

     In recent years, Gritz has re-established  a good deal of
the credibility he lost several years ago after his naked self-
promotion for an abortive "raid" on south-east Asia. He claimed
he was going to find and free MIA's supposedly still held
captive. Whereas then, Gritz directed most of his fund-raising
efforts at the Hollywood right, like Clint Eastwood and William
Shatner, he has recently been focusing his speaking and fund-
raising activities in California and elsewhere around the
country more at progressives and others concerned about
George Bush and the New World Order. Gritz has been
speaking out about his discoveries of CIA involvement in heroin
trading in south-east Asia and his awareness while heading
Green Beret counter-insurgency efforts in Latin America of
similar involvement in cocaine dealing.

     As a result, he has been developing a wide audience, and
to some degree a following, among opponents of U.S.
intervention in the Third World. Leftists and even pacifists, who
would otherwise be extremely suspicious of this militarist, have
gone to hear him speak and been impressed by his exposes of
government double-dealing and corruption. He has had
substantial air-time on Pacifica radio; representatives of groups
such as the Christic Institute have made joint appearances
with him. Now, Gritz is trying to influence such people into
supporting his Populist Party presidential bid.

     The Populist Party, in spite of its friendly, democratic
sounding name, is an amalgamation of "former" Klansmen,
nazis, and other racist far-right wingers that was cobbled
together in 1984 with the support of Willis Carto, long
considered an anti-Semite and Hitler apologist, and his Liberty
Lobby. Carto was a member of the Populists' National Executive
Committee from its inception. The Party's first presidential
candidate in 1984, Rev. Bob Richards, virtually ceased
campaigning in embarrassment over the racist nature of the
party apparatus. Duke, its 1988 nominee, of course had no such
misgivings. Its first chairman, Robert Weems, a former
Mississippi KKK leader, described its strategy; "We Populists
have adopted a tri-partisan approach... we share with Lyndon
LaRouche..., within both major parties and through the
Populist Party itself." (Lyndon LaRouche is another neo-nazi
political figure backed by Carto who is now in federal prison.)

     Carrying out this strategy, the KKK/Populist David Duke
ran in the Democratic Presidential primaries, then in the
general election as a Populist, then in a special election in
Louisiana as a Republican. He used the notoriety, name
recognition, and national fund-raising base he built with the
Populists to win a seat in the state legislature and espouse his
"sanitized" racism. Even after winning office as a Republican
in 1989, Duke met with the Populists, including such party
stalwarts as Chicago nazi leader Art Jones. "Bo" has been
following the same multi-party strategy. Even after he resigned
from the Populist ticket with Duke in 19888, to run in the
Republican primary in Nevada, he wrote to the party, "I intend
to offer the Populist Party platform in my campaign, and carry
it forward in public office." Luckily, he lost in the primary.
     What is the Populist Party platform and who are the
Populist leaders? Racism and racists, only thinly disguised.
Don Wassall, the Pennsylvania state chairman who became
National Executive Director and now is locked in a power
struggle with Carto--the latest in a series of faction fights over
control of party finances--used the party's newspaper, the
Populist Observer, to reprint explicitly racist material from the
"National Democratic Front," an avowed white supremacist
group based in Maryland.

     Ralph Forbes, who ran Duke's Populist Campaign, is
another "ex" nazi and "ex" Klansman, who then switched
parties to run for office in Arkansas. While with the Populists,
he ran a "Christian Identity"-oriented radio ministry called
"The Sword of Christ." He recently filed suit to prevent a
medical school in his state from teaching about abortions.
Forbes continues to be closely associated with the Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan leader Thom Robb, who recently declared that the
KKK intends to train "one thousand David Dukes."

     Van Loman, who chaired the Ohio chapter of the Populist
Party, and ran under its banner for the Cincinnati City Council,
was formerly the Grand Dragon of the Ohio Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan.

     Jerry Pope, once the state Populist chair in Kentucky,
was an organizer of the National States Rights Party, the
segregationist, anti-semitic grouping led by convicted
Birmingham church bomber J.B. Stoner. (Interestingly, when
Duke switched to the Republicans and won a seat in the
Louisiana legislature, his opponent, endorsed by the "official"
Republican apparatus from Reagan and Bush on down, had
also been a member of the racist NSRP.)

     In Washington State, in 1989, the United Front Against
Fascism held several successful demonstrations against the
Populists, thwarting their efforts to obtain ballot status in one
county. As a result, anti-racist organizers received death
threats, The Christian Sons of Liberty, an "Identity" group
central to Populist organizing there, put out viscous red-baiting
and anti-gay attacks on UFAF leaders. The CSL published
home addresses of UFAF organizers, in a clear attempt to
foment violence.

     Locally in California, the Populist Part is cut from the
same mold. California has always been one of the strongest
state affiliates of the Populists. David Duke raised 11% of the
funds for his Louisiana legislative race in California. Half the
money for his gubernatorial campaign came from outside of
Louisiana, much of it from California. Local leaders of the
Populists have included former San Fernando/Simi Valley
Klan leader Dennis Hilligoss, and Harbor-area nazi activist Joe
Fields, an associate of Nazi party chieftain Stan Witek and Tom
Metzger of WAR (White Aryan Resistance). Fields is, in fact, a
member of the party's National Executive Committee.

     Behind the Gritz campaign, the Populists have become
the most active neo-nazi group in southern California, and are
successfully uniting a variety of racists in their ranks. This
year, the Populists have sponsored several programs in Orange
County, one featuring John Tyndall, leader of the neo-nazi
National Front in England. Another spotlighted the impeached
ex-governor of Arizona, Evan Mecham, whose reactionary
forces have allied with fundamentalist preacher Pat Robertson
to take over the Republican Party in his home state. Among the
participants at the Populist parlay was Kim Badynski, head of
the virulent Northwest Knights of the Ku Klux Klan based in
Washington State. In Ventura County and up north to Alameda
County, the California Populists have held party meetings to
commemorate Aldolf Hitler's birthday. Such Populist
organizing legitimizes the fear and hatred of the privileged for
the oppressed that generates hate crime.

     The danger of the Populists and the Gritz campaign is
not that he will win the presidency. As of this writing, the
Populists have not yet achieved ballot status in any state;
(although here in California, they will presumably run under
the American Independent banner, a recognized state party
still on the ballot since running George Wallace for President in
the sixties). The real danger is that the Populists will succeed in
further legitimizing racist and anti-semitic politics. They have
a long-range goal, of unifying Christian rightists and Christian
patriots, anti-abortionists and anti-semites, into an apparatus
dominated by neo-nazis. With Gritz, they have the added bonus
at the same time of coopting or at least disarming progressive
forces that would have otherwise have exposed and opposed
them. Unifying with Gritz would inevitably discredit the white
left with the movements for immigrants rights, Black
empowerment, women's liberation and gay and lesbian dignity.

     No one concerned about conspiracies and abuse of
government power, about spiritual development or the survival
of the planet, should offer the racist and fascistic oriented
Populist Party a shred of legitimacy. The Ku Klux Klan has
always been the number one racist conspiratorial group in U.S.
history, seeking power to carry out its divisive and destructive
program. The Populist Party is the latest hood these night
riders have put on to mask their identities so they can win
popular support for carrying out their racist terror. DON'T BE
HOOD-WINKED!

     The problem with "Bo" Gritz's Populist candidacy is not
merely one of guilt by association with neo-nazis. Gritz himself
openly embraces the Populists' politics of anti-semitism,
racism, anti-immigrant hysteria and anti-gay bigotry. As
criticism has begun to emerge of the Populists, Gritz has
claimed in his speaking engagements that he has "cleaned
house" since the Duke days. But this is an outright lie. Joe
Fields, for example, the open neo-nazi who heads the Populists
in L.A., is also a current national officer of the Party. What's
more, Gritz's connections to racists and anti-semites extend
beyond the ranks of the Populist Party itself.

     For example, Gritz is a member of the board of the
Populist Action Committee (PAC), established by Willis Carto of
the Spotlight. Although Carto is on the outs with the current
leadership of the Populist Party, accusing them of financial
mismanagement, he supports Gritz, and Gritz in turn supports
the PAC's approach of backing sympathetic Democrats and
Republicans as well as Populists. While many of Gritz's
southern California speaking appearances seem directed at
progressives, the bulk of his organizing and speech-making is
carried out through the apparatus of the "Christian Identity"
movement, which preaches that Anglo-Americans are the true
"chosen people" of the Bible, that Jews are satan-spawn, and
that non-whites are "pre-Adamic," that is, sub-human. The
Coalition for Human Dignity in Portland, OR has documented
the involvement of the so-called "Christian Patriot" Identity
churches in the Gritz campaign in that state, as well as
participation by nazi skins.

     In particular, Gritz is closely tied to the Rev.  Pete Peters,
a national leader of Christian Identity based in Ft. Collins, CO.
Gritz has spoken at Peters' "Scriptures for America" Rocky
Mountain Bible Retreat, also attended by such noted anti-
semites as "Col." Jack Mohr and by KKK defense attorney Kirk
Lyons. Lyons' Patriotic Defense Foundation has represented
nazi boneheads, the Order white supremacy underground
sedition defendants, and is now coordination Tom Metzger's
appeal of his liability for the nazi skin killing of an Ethiopian
refugee. Gritz has spoken at similar Christian Identity
gatherings in the northwest, in Nampa, Idaho, and in North
Carolina, where he has shared the rostrum with neo-nazis.

     The connection to Mohr and Peters is particularly
striking because the two were part of the incident which
precipitated the murderous birth of the "Order" or "Bruder
Schweigen," a neo-nazi underground, in the early 1980's.
Richard Mathews and David Lane, the founders of this
clandestine, para-military outfit, hooked up at Peter's La Porte
based "church." And it was the humiliation of Jack Mohr, a
guest of Peter's in Colorado, by Denver talk show host Alan
Berg, which prompted the Order conspirators to execute Berg
and initiate their reign of racist terror. (This incident was
dramatized in the films "Talk Radio" and "Betrayed.") Mohr,
meanwhile, has been promoting the Populist Party since its
inception through his para-military network, the Christian
Patriots Defense League.

     In a speech to Peter's retreat, Gritz acknowledged that
the money to print his self-published campaign autobiography,
"Called to Serve," came from Rev. Peters. "Called to Serve"
spells out Gritz's own far-right views pretty clearly. He refers to
the "Rockefeller/Rothschild" Federal Reserve System as being
controlled by "seven Jewish families." This is not a momentary
aberration or a slip of the tongue. At his "Call for Action '90"
conference in Nevada, Gritz featured the anti-semitic views of
Eustace Mullins in analyzing the Federal reserve, and he
distributes the work of Mullins, who was a supporter of Erza
Pound and the Italian fascists. Reflecting his Christian Identity
beliefs, Gritz refers to America in "Called to Serve" as "the new
Zion," and white Christians as "the gathering tribes of Israel."

     These views are also reflected and expressed in Gritz's
own campaign literature for his Populist candidacy. In a four-
page brochure signed and authorized by Gritz, the ex-Green
Beret couches his program less in electoral than in
revolutionist terms. "We can, we will, we must oust 'the'
government and restore 'our' sovereignty. We need a second
American Revolution." The racist nature of this revolutionism
is evident in the rest of the platform he puts forward. Referring
to his enemy as "seditious bankers" and  "satanic globalists,"
Gritz pledges to "derail their plans and send them back into the
abyss." The platform is full of xenophobia and racism. "It's
time to return America to the Americans,... halt the illegal
immigration that is turning America into a Third World
country,... end affirmative action,... end this country's decedent,
degenerate ways. I've spent my life fighting for America, and
now it's time to fight again. Will you be a part of my grassroots
army?"

     This militaristic rhetoric, wrapped in thinly-veiled code
words for anti-Semitism, racism, sexism, and homophobia, is
an invitation to his followers to engage in cross-burnings, gay-
bashings and vandalism. Nor does Gritz try to separate himself
from the party as a whole. He specifically tries to develop "coat-
tails" in his campaign literature, calling on his backers to
support other Populist candidates for state and local offices.

     The Populists have been using Gritz's candidacy to step up 
their racist organizing all around the country. PART learned 
about the Populists' L.A. organizing and its local anti-
immigrant, anti-semitic activities while distributing a leaflet 
headed "Bo Knows the Truth About the Racist Populist Party," at 
an appearance by Gritz at the L.A. airport Hilton.

     Typically, that event was sponsored not by the Populists 
themselves, but by a local "new age" bookstore, Mandala Books, 
which has been running a conspiracy lecture series. They invited 
the Christic Institute to have a table after becoming worried 
about Bo's racist and rightist affiliates. But the Populists also 
had a table at the event, and were out in force. They began anti-
Jewish harassment of the anti-racist activist who was 
distributing the expose of their racist nature, calling him 
alternately a Communist and an agent of the Mossad (Israeli 
espionage), and saying he looked like Jewish attorney Alan 
Dershowitz. Many of the several hundred people drawn to the event 
were evidently disturbed by the Populists' tactics, and 
questioned Gritz about his connections with them during the 
event. Gritz defended the party and was more open about his won 
rightist politics than he has been in the past.

     PART exposed and demonstrated outside a gathering of the 
Populists at the Hastings Ranch public library in Pasadena, CA in 
September. They were meeting to plan a "Borderwatch" 
demonstration for later in the month. They had a speaker from a 
group called "Stop Immigration Now," which has been involved with 
"Light Up the Border" demonstrations in San Diego. Another 
planned speaker, an Arab doctor who went on a delegation to 
Jordan led by Nord Davis, a white racist from North Carolina who 
was opposed to the Gulf War, canceled after PART exposed the 
meeting and the racist nature of the Populists. We expressed 
outrage that the Populists would be promoting anti-immigrant 
hysteria on the eve of Mexican independence day, and propagating 
anti-semitism in the midst of the Jewish high holidays. The 
following month, the Populists met at the library again under 
heavy police guard. Five counter-demonstrators were arrested, and 
several brutally wrestled down and struck by police in riot gear.

     A contingent of about half a dozen Black men associated with 
the Self Determination Committee have attended the Populist 
events in Pasadena. The Self-Determination Committee, run by a 
Black pseudo-nationalist named Robert Brock, has been prominently 
allying itself with white supremacist in southern California for 
several years. Brock's most notable association has been with 
Daniel Johnson, author of the so-called Pace Amendment to the 
Constitution, which would restrict U.S. citizenship to people of 
northern European extraction. The Populists have picked up 
members from the pace Amendment Advocates, which closed its 
Glendale, CA headquarters after Johnson moved to Montana to run 
for Congress. They also seem to be emphasizing the anti-Jewish 
and anti-immigrant aspects of their politics to cement an 
alliance of convenience with Brock's group. Fields tries to cite 
this opportunistic alliance to claim that the Populists are not 
racist.

     Told they had to put up a bond to cover the costs of police 
protection and that they could not exclude people from the 
library, the Populists tried to meet elsewhere. In November, the 
Populists' youth front group, Students for America, tried to 
sponsor a Populist-inspired conference at Pasadena City College 
Featuring Fields, Brock and a speaker from the American 
Independent Party (the right-racist group with ballot status in 
California which ran both George Wallace and unreconstructed 
white racist Lester Maddox for president). The college canceled, 
evidently for reasons of security, after the nature of the 
gathering was exposed. (PCC students had been among those 
arrested at the library demonstrations.) The Populists then tried 
to secure the meeting hall of the American Friends Service 
Committee in Pasadena under false pretenses. The AFSC also 
canceled when they were informed of who it actually was trying to 
rent their facility.

     The youth group which fronted for the Populists in Pasadena, 
"Students for America," is also organizing on at least one other 
campus in this area. Students for America was set up nationally 
as the shell of a youth formation for the Populists but now seems 
to be taking on a real existence. The chapter at Cal State 
University in Northridge, scene of several reason {{sic}} hat 
incidents directed against lesbians and gays, Jews and Mexicans, 
planned to bring embattled L.A. police chief Daryl Gates to the 
campus to speak on Wednesday, Nov. 13. Gates canceled at noon on 
the day of his scheduled appearance, supposedly because of fears 
of security problems, after students from the BSU, MEChA and 
SQUISH, a new lesbian and gay group, planned to demonstrate. 
Stefan Khachaturian, who described himself as a regional 
coordinator for Students for America, vowed that Gates would come 
to speak to a private, closed meeting of the group. Students for 
America is also reportedly organizing in the "Inland Empire" area 
of Riverside and San Bernardino counties, east of Los Angeles.

           JOE FIELDS: THE FACE OF THE POPULISTS

     The head of the L.A. County chapter of the Populists, also a 
member of its national executive committee, who chaired the 
Pasadena meeting, is Joe Fields. One Joe Fields in national 
leadership is more than enough to discredit any political 
formation, and Fields is typical, not exceptional, in the ranks 
of the Populists. Fields has been a nazi activist of long-
standing in the L.A. Harbor area. He has also become a national 
"footnote" to the story of David Duke's campaign for governor of 
Louisiana, after a tape recorded interview with Fields and Duke 
was widely circulated. On the tape, Fields openly asserted his 
nazi identity and beliefs, such as that the Jews deserve 
"everything they get, even extermination," while Duke admonishes 
him to be more discreet. It's ironic that Fields, who boasts on 
the tape that he would "never deny" he is a nazi, now is denying 
it, having taken Duke's advice to heart. Fields specifically 
opposes democracy on the tape, noting that it allows "anything 
that can claim to be human to vote." His speech is riddled with 
references to "kikes" and "niggers." Now Fields professes to be a 
supporter of the Bill of Rights, but on the tape he declares 
matter of factly that he would suppress any speech that he deems 
not in the interest of the white race.

     Like David Duke, Fields has made a career since his youth of 
his neo-nazi politics. On the tape he expresses the admiration he 
has had for Hitler and the nazis ever since he saw war movies as 
a little boy. While a student at L.A. Harbor College, Fields ran 
a series of articles in the student newspaper calling the 
Holocaust a hoax, some taken without attribution from right-wing 
publications. He was disciplined for meeting on campus with Tom 
Metzger to plan the distribution of "holo-Hoax" material.

     Later, openly acknowledging his nazi affiliation, Fields 
joined three other nazi party members in wearing swastikas into 
an Oktoberfest celebration at a German restaurant. The nazis were 
expelled after refusing to remove the nazi regalia (and because 
the bathroom had been vandalized with nazi graffiti on their 
previous visit.) Fields sued, represented by the ACLU, and won. 
(On the gape, Fields refers to his defenders as the "ACL-Jew".) 
One of Fields' co-plaintiffs in the swastika case, nazi party 
chieftain Stan Witek, was convicted on weapons and assault 
charges and more recently for conspiracy for burning crosses in 
L.A. along with Tom Metzger during this same period of time. 
Fields himself got into a brawl with Jewish activists at a City 
Council action in 1988 on the swastika case. 

     After "leaving" the nazis, Fields was closely associated 
with the Institute for Historical Review, set up to question 
Hitler's genocide by Willis Carto, publisher of the Spotlight and 
founder of the Populist Party. He married a South African woman. 
Like David Duke, who underwent plastic surgery, Fields has 
changed his appearance; he has trimmed down from a weight that 
once exceeded 300 pounds. But neither man has changed his white 
supremacist politics. Remember - a vote for "Bo" Gritz is a vote 
for Joe Fields and the politics of hate he represents.

     PART is planning a continuing campaign against Gritz and the 
Populists. Gritz and such backers of his as Craig Hulet (a/k/a 
K>C. De Pass) have been getting a lot of air time on KPFK here in 
L.A. and other Pacifica Stations. His material has been reprinted 
and promoted by the progressive oriented conspiracy catalog from 
Prevailing Winds Research in Santa Barbara. Hulet, who also has 
been involved in Spotlight and Liberty Lobby circles, claims to 
be apolitical but against racism himself, and to have his 
disagreements with Gritz. Yet he is urging the left to disregard 
or mute criticism of Gritz, claiming such criticisms are really 
coming from George Bush and the "globalists." Gritz returned the 
favor by promoting a Hulet meeting in Seattle in October 1991. 
The PWR promo for Gritz's literature includes a pamphlet by long-
time anti-semite Eustice Mullins. The Christic Institute, for 
another example, allowed itself to be used to give Gritz 
credibility, at the same time that it presents itself as an anti-
racist organization.

     After several exposes and criticism of this connection, 
Christic has begun to back away from Gritz. They issued a 
somewhat self-contradictory disclaimer of their involvement. 
After saying that Christic "does not form alliances with racist 
or anti-semitic extremists," Sara Nelson, the national director 
of the Christic Institute in a letter to In These Times objecting 
to an article documenting Christic participation in Gritz-
sponsored activities, goes on to say, "we can be accused of not 
having severed our relationship with him earlier than we did." 
Christic needs to more forthcoming about what that 
"relationship" was, and why they were unaware of this years-long 
involvement with the Populists. Even in this letter, Nelson says 
only that "the charges against Gritz, if true, are extremely 
serious." In reprinting the letter in their own newsletter, 
Christic frames it with the assertion that they had no formal 
relationship with Gritz and were "saddened and shocked" to hear 
of his affiliation.

     In another chilling example, progressives associated with 
"Vox Populi," an attempted anti-intervention coffee-house in the 
Venice area, helped a local activist who calls himself "Tom 
Reveille" to start up a "pirate" radio station, a mini-
transmitter not covered by the FCC. Reveille turned out to be a 
follower of Willis Carto, the notorious anti-semite. He has 
received funds with which to continue broadcasting from Carto, 
and devotes his air time to questioning the Holocaust. Reveille 
has admitted meeting with Joe Fields and with open members of the 
Nazi Party. Meanwhile, programmers at KPFK and KPFA continue to 
grant substantial air time to Gritz and other who advocate an 
alliance of the left and right (including racists) against George 
Bush, while denying access to their air to researchers and 
activists who would expose these dangerous developments.

     The "new age" movement is another area where Gritz, the 
Populists, and other racists have been recruiting. The Alexandria 
II bookstore in Pasadena has held a book-signing party for Gritz, 
to peddle "Called to Serve." It has distributed "Phoenix 
Express," a bizarre "new age" publication with supposedly 
"channeled" writing from spirits which support Gritz and have 
regurgitated the vicious anti-semitic forgery "Protocols of the 
Elders of Zion." Mandala Bookstore in Santa Monica, despite 
expressing misgivings about the Populists, continues to sponsor 
Gritz and other similar speakers, mixed in with John Stock well 
or Daniel Sheehan as if there were no distinction.

     Another area of intense Gritz/Populist recruitment is among 
"conspiracy buffs." The Spotlight crowd, through Carto's 
"Noontide Press," has always mixed claims of CIA double-dealing 
with theories about Jewish/Masonic domination. Thus Willis Carto 
has promoted Mark Lane's conspiracy theories about the Kennedy 
assassination and rightist Fletcher Prouty's "insider" exposes of 
the CIA; Craig Hulet relies on Anthony Sutton, whose books are 
mainly marketed by neo-nazi, for a critique of the Trilateral 
Commission. Some people are swallowing this bait, and getting 
hooked for the rest of the Populist politics. Prevailing Winds 
Research's catalog continues to offer Gritz's material without 
any disclaimer or warning, as if it were equivalent to the anti-
imperialist analyses of Michael Parenti or the anti-fascist 
exposes by Russ Bellant which they also offer. Groups in 
Portland, Colorado, San Francisco, and L.A., are marketing video 
and audio tapes of Gritz and/or Hulet on a similarly co-equal 
basis with those of anti-war and anti-imperialist speakers. This 
is highly irresponsible.

     Progressives and anti-racists must draw a clear line that 
exposes and condemns Gritz and his racist and neo-fascist allies 
in the Populist Party. The Christic Institute, for example, needs 
to recognize that the "unity" Gritz and the Populists are talking 
about is the same unity as that of the nazi-klan united front 
which took the lives of five anti-klan protesters in Greensboro, 
North Carolina -- a case where Christic represented the families 
of those killed by the nazis. Christic's association with Gritz 
and the rest of the racist Populists, even if unwitting, is an 
unjustifiable insult to the memory of those martyrs and must end 
immediately and totally. Christic should join the campaign to 
expose Bo's campaign for the fascist vehicle it is.  Christic 
should take the lead in condemning the Gritz campaign, rather 
than demanding retractions from those who have raised criticisms 
and concerns. It should share frankly and self-critically with 
its followers in the process of deception and rationalization by 
which it was hoodwinked, so that other can escape the same fate.

==================================================================
     For more information about the campaign to oppose Gritz and 
the Populists, contact PART, People Against Racist Terror, P.O. 
Box 1990, Burbank CA 91507


From ubc-cs!destroyer!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817 Sat Sep 26 10:57:38 PDT 1992
Article: 5911 of alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!ubc-cs!destroyer!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817
From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: "A Nation Betrayed" - Bo Gritz POW/MIA Video
Date: 25 Sep 1992 20:05:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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Message-ID: <19vrehINNcq7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


These excerpts from Col. Bo Gritz's video "A Nation Betrayed" were 
compiled and edited from a longer series on POW/MIA's posted originally 
by jad@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (John DiNardo)

-Steve




   The following excerpts are from a transcript of the video,
                    A NATION BETRAYED:

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
COL. JAMES `BO' GRITZ:
What I want to tell you very quickly is something that I feel is more
heinous than the Bataan death march. Certainly it is of more concern to
you as Americans than the Watergate.  What I'm talking about is
something we found out in Burma - May 1987.  We found it out from a man
named Khun Sa.  He is the recognized overlord of heroin in the world. 
Last year he sent 900 tons of opiates and heroin into the free world. 
This year it will be 1200 tons.

   [video showing discussion at Khun Sa's headquarters -- some translation
    of Burmese to English going on. Bo Gritz still narrating in foreground.]

On video tape he said to us something that was most astounding: that US
government officials have been and are now his biggest customers, and
have been for the last twenty years.  I wouldn't believe him.  We
fought a war in Laos and Cambodia even as we fought whatever it was in
Vietnam.  The point is that there are as many bomb holes in those two
other countries as there are in Vietnam.  Five hundred and fifty plus
Americans were lost in Laos.  Not one of them ever came home.  We heard
a president say, "The war is over, we are out with honor - all of the
prisoners are home." and a few other lies.  Now we got rid of that
president, but we didn't get rid of the problem.  We ran the war in
Laos and Cambodia through drugs.  The money that would not be
appropriated by a liberal congress, was appropriated.  And you know who
we used for distribution?  Santos Trafficante, old friend of the CIA
and mobster out of Cuba and Florida.  We lost the war!

Fifty-eight thousand Americans were killed.  Seventy-thousand became
drug casualties.  In the sixties and seventies you saw an infusion of
drugs into America like never before.  Where do you think the Mafia
takes the heroin and opiates that it gets through its arrangement with
the US government?  It doesn't distribute them in Africa or Europe. 
This is the big money bag HERE.  We're Daddy Warbucks for them.  So I
submit to you that the CIA has been pressed for solutions.  Each time
they have gone to the sewer to find it.  And you can't smell like a rose
when you've been playing in the cesspool.  We've been embracing
organized crime.  Now you've all looked and heard about Ollie North,
about the Contras, about nobody knowing anything.  

    [cut to part of Iran Contra hearings with Ollie North explaining 
     the flow of funds from Iran to the Contras]

NORTH:
And Mr. Gorbanifar suggested several incentives to make that February
transaction work.  And the attractive incentive for me was the one he
made that residuals could flow to support the Nicaraguan resistance.  

LEGISLATOR:
Even Gorbanifar knew that you were supporting the Contras.

NORTH:
Yes he did.  Isvestia knew it.  The name had been in the papers in
Moscow.  It had been all over Danny Ortega's newscasts.  Radio Havana
was broadcasting it.  It had been in every newspaper in the land.

LEGISLATOR:
All our enemies knew it and you wanted to keep it from the United
States Congress.

NORTH:
We wanted to be able to deny a covert operation.

     [end of scene]

BO GRITZ:
We have a constitution that says that the laws will be made by the
Congress, enforced by the executive branch, interpreted by the judicial
branch.  But in reality we have an executive branch that has for more
than twenty years operated in what Ollie North called a parallel
government.  When the Congress says no, it makes no difference. 
They're gonna do it anyway.  And it is special intelligence -- top
secret.  Why?  Not because the communists don't know what were doing.
It's to keep it a secret from YOU.  You're not capable of making those
kinds of  decisions -- according to those in parallel government.  
The reason I know ... I was there.  I've been a product of the 
parallel government myself.

NARRATOR:
Lieutenant Colonel James `Bo' Gritz is the most decorated Green Beret
commander of the Vietnam Era.  General William Westmoreland, in writing
his memoirs, singled out Bo Gritz as the "American Soldier" for his
exemplary courage in combat and outstanding ingenuity in recovering a
highly secret black-box the Viet Cong had taken from a crashed U-2 spy
plane.  The feature films "Rambo", "Uncommon Valor" and "Missing in
Action" were based in part upon his real-life military experiences.

BO GRITZ:
Dick Secord, General, United States Air Force, a man I know well, said
it best.  Before the senate investigating committee Dick Secord was
asked: If we were supporting the Contras, why were we selling them
arms bought from a communist bloc nation at exorbitant profit rates?

    [cut to a scene from Congressional hearings]

SENATOR:
If the purpose of the enterprise was to help the contras, why did you
charge Colero a mark-up?

SECORD:
We were in business to make a living, Senator.  We had to make a
living. I didn't see anything wrong with it at the time.  It was a
commercial enterprise.  

SENATOR:
Oh..I thought the purpose of the enterprise was to aid Colero's cause.
      
SECORD:
Can't I have two purposes?  I did.

SENATOR:
Oh ... alright.

BO GRITZ:
And then Dick Secord said in his playboy interview:  "I think I deserve
the eight million that we made from the Iran arms sale for all the hard
work I did."  
If you've got to pay a patriot, you've got the wrong guy.
These are patriots for profit.  There has been a guise of patriotism
that a lot of people have been hiding behind.  War is their business. 
Business has been good.  

    [fade to a scene from the Vietnam War] 

NARRATOR:
Bo Gritz risked his life a thousand times in combat in Vietnam before
he was sent by national security council staffer Tom Harvey in the
White House to Burma in November of 1986 in search of American
prisoners of war.  He discovered instead a heroin highway and a nation
betrayed by high-level American officials involved in narcotics
trafficking.  Tom Harvey and his superiors in the White House were not
pleased with Bo's report. 

    [fade to a scene of Bo Gritz in a field. It apprears to be in  
     Southeast Asia. Palm trees and oxen indigenous to the area abound.]

BO GRITZ:
The thing that I was most concerned about was -- and I thought it was
fantastic -- was the [Asian] general's offer to stop the flow of opium 
and heroin into the free world.  When I asked him [assume he's talking
about a conversation with Tom Harvey now] he said "That's fantastic." 

There was a pause. Then he said: "Bo, there's no one here that supports
that." And I said, "What?!  Vice-President Bush has been appointed by
President Reagan as the number one policeman to control drug entry into
the United States.  How can you say there's no interest and no support
when we bring back a videotape with a direct interview with a man who
puts 900 tons of opium and heroin across into the free world every year
and is willing to stop it?"  And he said, "Bo, what can I tell you? 
All I can tell you is there is no interest in doing that here."  

Well that made me wonder.  That's because it doesn't sound American 
and it doesn't sound right.  Thats when we began to do our own
investigation, because for about three years people had told me -- both 
in Washington DC and, interestingly enough, in Oklahoma City -- that 
the whole POW situation was being undermined by U.S. Government officials
involved in drug trafficking.  I wouldn't believe it.  I said: "You
guys aren't playing with a full deck... you've got yourselves strung
out too thin."  And they said: "Bo, you better listen, because for
three years we've had prisoners literally within our grasp and
something has happened at the last minute."  (I said), "Each time, 
I've made every effort to cooperate with government officials.  I can't
believe that people in the U.S. Government would actually, either 
overtly or covertly, do anything to undermine a rescue operation."

Well, we're still without Prisoners of War and there is no interest,
we're told, at the White House in stopping the flow of drugs coming in
from the Golden Triangle into the free world.  

    [fade to front-page articles about Bo Gritz in PARADE Magazine
     and in SOLDIER OF FORTUNE]

NARRATOR:
Lieutenant Colonel Bo Gritz is no stranger to controversy.  In thirty
years of devoted service to the U.S. Army and to the recovery of American
prisoners of war, he has encountered plenty. .....
                                .... Bo Gritz won his Green Beret in
the Army Special forces by passing all courses in unconventional
warfare training. After graduating from officer's candidate school, the
newly-commissioned second lieutenant then insisted on Ranger training. 

Assigned to the command of the first mobile South Vietnamese guerilla
forces to be organized, Gritz also operated secretly in Cambodia and
Laos with his force of Cambodian mercenaries, or "Bo's", as he called
them.  By official body count, over 450 of the enemy died as a result
of Gritz's actions.  His wartime records are replete with examples of
Bo's concern for keeping Americans alive in a war gone mad.

As recon chief of the supersecret Delta Force, Bo was cited for valor in
saving the lives of 30 U.S. infantrymen from the "Big Red One" Division.
More often than not, his valor was in placing himself between the
enemy and his men.  According to an official military report dated 31
July 1967 submitted on then Major Gritz: "His personal bravery is
legendary, exemplified by the fact that he has been awarded five silver
stars and numerous other decorations for valor."  In all, Bo Gritz was
awarded 62 citations for valor, five silver stars, eight bronze stars,
two purple hearts and a presidential citation.

Bo was ready to sign up for a fifth tour of duty when he had a talk
with General Fred Weiyan (sp?), the "daddy-rabbit" in Vietnam.  As
Gritz described it: "I was a major and special operations chief.  I'll
never forget that day.  I stood there and heard that man say: 
`Bo, you're not going to win the war, and neither am I.'  That was the most
disillusioning moment of my life.  It meant that every man who had ever
lost his finger or his life had lost it for nothing.  I decided, on the
spot, to leave Vietnam.  I would not kill another enemy or risk another
comrade's life."

BO GRITZ:
I've had the opportunity to do a lot of things that other officers have
not.  I was the first reconnaissance chief and intelligence officer for
Delta Force -- commanded the first guerilla forces that went behind enemy
lines.  When I commanded Special Forces in Latin America, we did it
exactly right.  And we did exactly what men in camouflage are supposed
to do.  It was very natural that Harold R. Aaron (sp?) would single me
out because, besides having a sixth-degree black belt in karate, I have
established an ability to operate on my own.  And I think when Aaron
said, "Bo, we want you to do this",  he understood that I'm also hard
headed enough that I wouldn't cave in.  He said, "I want you to
consider retiring.  It would only be temporary.  We have overwhelming
evidence now that people are still there, being held in communist
prisons."  Mr. H. Ross Perot had been asked by Eugene Tighe, Director
of the Defense Intelligence Agency, to back a private mission that
would look into the POW situation.  Perot said, "Bo, I want you to go
there. I want you to do everything you have to do.  You come and tell
me there aren't any prisoners of war left alive."  

NARRATOR:
Bo returned from Indo-China with extensive evidence that there were
indeed American prisoners of war in captivity, including a solid report
of 47 at one particular camp.  Perot turned the project back over to
General Tighe who wrote to Secretary of Defense Harold Brown asking
that the source, a Nguyen Dok Jong (sp?) be brought to the United
States for a polygraph test.  Brown repeated the request to Secretary
of State Cyrus Vance.  One month later, Vance finally responded that
the Commissioner of Immigration would not permit Jong into the United
States for further questioning.  As Bo puts it: "Think about it.  
One man, not a thousand, and the Defense Intelligence Agency chief and
Secretary of State can't get him into the country.  That was a pretty
clear signal that the military was politically handcuffed on the
prisoner of war issue."  

For eight years Gritz sought to find and free American POW's.  He
crossed five times behind enemy lines into communist Laos and Vietnam. 
Three times he was within moments of embracing those American heroes
our government had declared dead.  Each time something unexplained
caused Gritz and his Operation Lazarus team to fall short, 
with freedom and victory in sight for the POW's.
                      (to be continued)
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
NARRATOR:
There has never been a shortage of criticism from any number of
armchair generals such as Robert K. Brown of "Soldier of Fortune"
magazine who devoted an entire issue to condemning Gritz's efforts. 
Even to the extent of publishing documents stolen from Bo while he was
on the mission in Laos.  They have even belittled his prayer before
crossing enemy lines. (Gritz is a devout Mormon...Ed.) His critics said
he should have looked more like the Rambo in the movies, who actually
avoided the draft in an all-girls school in Switzerland.  

More debilitating than the hundreds of miles on foot within enemy
territory has been the disinformation propagated by those within our
government who have covered up the plight of our prisoners of war. 
Gritz has been accused of being a media hound.  He insists he has never
sought the spotlight, but when confronted has always been a positive
voice for our prisoners of war and will continue to be until they are
home to speak for themselves.

Working as an agent for the Intelligence Support Activity (ISA) in the
CIA, it was fine for Gritz to travel at great peril using false
documents, as Ollie North and Bud McFarland did when they traveled to
Iran on phony Irish passports.  On one occasion he was stopped by US
customs at Seattle-Tacoma airport with four separate passports.  He was
quickly released when his intelligence contact in Washington confirmed
his mission.  It was quite acceptable with the US government for Bo
Gritz to travel at such great peril until he returned from Burma's
infamous Golden Triangle on December of 1986 with information
concerning the involvement of high-level US officials involved in
large-scale drug trafficking in Southeast Asia.  His tremendous courage
in refusing to back down to their threats has lead to his current
indictment for misuse of a passport in order to keep him from getting
this information to the American public.  

BO GRITZ:
There's a book out now called SECRET WARRIORS, I think.  Its about 
an organization called the ISA.  Congress never knew about it and 
everybody gives me credit for exposing it, but that's not true.  
When I was called before Congress in 1983, they said, "Bo, are you 
working as an official agent of the US government?"  And I said, "Yes".  
And they said, "For what organization?"  And I said, "I will not 
identify that organization, other than to call it the activity."  
This is because even the initials I-S-A were top secret.  Because it
wasn't an oversight.  It was created by Carter.  Can you imagine that?  
He did one good thing that I know of.  But it was a parallel government.
He created a secret organization to do things that the CIA could not
do and he didn't dare let Congress know about it.  

Now ISA got Dosier back, the general that was captured by terrorists in
Italy. And ISA did a lot of other things.  You can read about them now
because its in this book by some guy who writes for the Wall Street
Journal.  The point is that Jerry King was the head of ISA.  Jerry King
called me on the telephone and said, "Bo, we have been ordered to put
Operation Grand Eagle...", which was the government's name for the
prisoner of war rescue mission.  It certainly wasn't grand and it sure
wasn't an eagle 'cause it never got off the ground.  But he said,
"We've been ordered to put Operation Grand Eagle on the shelf as if it
never existed."  Hand before God he said, "there are still too many
bureaucrats who don't want to see American prisoners of war come back
alive."  Now I didn't know what Jerry King meant then.  I thought he
was angry because there was a bureaucratic tug-of-war going on between
ISA, the CIA and Defense Intelligence and maybe he was losing.  But
remember Jerry King's words, 'cause they'll tie in here.  I'm wondering
why [they recaptured] the Vietnamese intercept Colonel Richard Walsh 
(a POW...Ed.) moments before the turnover and captured not only him, 
but the general also (unclear who the General is here ... Ed.)  And I 
And I knew that we still had him, because in the newspapers it appeared 
that "The Vietnamese and Lao delegations of the United Nations confirm 
that they are holding an American citizen in custody."  And I said, 
"By golly. We and our State Department are going to press for an identity."  
Because doesn't it say that the President is required to safegaurd 
American citizens in hostile hands.  And I knew when we pressed what would
happen?  Richard Walsh would be identified.  Who is he?  A prisoner of
war.  Hooray!  Now the logjam is broken.  And who can Walsh testify
to?  The other men he was with.  And they can testify.  We're going to
get them all out now, even though its going to cost us something.  
Did you ever see Richard Walsh's name identified?  I didn't.
                       (to be continued)
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
                       (continuation)
BO GRITZ:
Mrs. Walsh showed me a newspaper article that said where an Air Force
casualty officer came to her at this time and said: "Your husband
is alive.  He's a prisoner of war. We have high hopes he'll be coming
home soon."  They put it in the newspaper there in Minneapolis.  She
was told that Air Force Two was spooling up ... Who's that belong to?
... George Bush ... to go get her husband.  That's what she told me, 
but it never happened. And I thought again: "What rotten luck, and what 
a bunch of wimps in the State Department for not going and demanding 
that they identify that citizen." They probably did. They found out who 
he was and they said: "Lets forget it."  Because when I walked into the
State Department shortly thereafter, a friend of mine said: "Bo, we
thought that you'd been captured.  Your passport turned up in a very
unlikely place."  And I said: "Yeah, I know all about it." 

Do you think that all of this has just been rotten luck.  Well, when
you wear the uniform of the United States you have this faith ... hope
that the system will do it.  Just like General Aaron said: "Let the
system do the rest."  Now comes truth ...

We were training Afghan freedom fighters in the deserts of South Nevada
near where I live and I was proud to do so  -- in cooperation with the 
U.S. State Department Office For Security Assistance.  We finished that
mission. A man by the name of Tom Harvey who is a National Security
Council Ollie North look-alike (Ollie comes from Anapolis. Harvey
comes from West Point.) ... Tom Harvey called me and said: "We have
information ..."  And here is a copy of the letter. That's why I brought
all these documents.  I hope some of you challenge them.  I hope the
White House, the Pentagon would challenge them.  Because if they would
publicly they would have to admit to the truth.  This letter was sent
to Vice-President Bush by an American citizen by the name of Arthur
Souchek. It is dated 29 August, 1986.  It says that General Khun Sa 
has American prisoners of war.  It says that Khun Sa tried to rescue 
four of them.  It says his forces escorted the four to the Mekong River. 
While attempting to cross the rain-swollen river, the four U.S.
personnel, three of Khun Sa's soldiers and two horses were swept away
by the raging water and all drowned.  It goes on to say that Khun Sa
has repeated intelligence reports of a location of U.S. prisoners being
kept in Laos ... that he says that has seventy prisoners of war.  Tom
Harvey said: "This is getting TOP priority."

Now in G. Gordon Liddy's book, "Will", he says, "no American has ever
come out of the Golden Triangle alive."  But that's what we were being
asked to do.  Tom Harvey said, "Bo, do you think you would be able to
infiltrate into Khun Sa's inner sanctum and determine if this report is
true or not?"  Do you think maybe somebody is trying to get me bumped
off?  It didn't make any difference.  Brothers and sisters, you and
I are small compared to this nation. And the risk that we take, if 
there is one American there, is worth it.  God's will, they'll be home
while they're still alive.  I told Harvey, "We didn't fight a war in
Burma. Why should there be prisoners of war there?"  But you know a guy
like Khun Sa has got connections all over.  And I said, "We'll try."  

I speak Chinese.  Khun Sa speaks Chinese.  He's right along the
southern China border, surrounded by communists. He's fighting the
communists.  He has a forty-thousand man army.  About eight million
Shan people make up the minority Shan state.  Burma is communist. 
Every one of his weapons are M-16s and M-60 machine guns.  All the 
latest stuff that we have.  I found out why later.  To make a long 
story short, we got in to see Khun Sa and he didn't have any prisoners 
of war.  And let me caveat it by saying this.  We traveled three days
going and three days coming by horse over mountains that were literally
vertical up and down.  I made the comment at that time to Scott Weekly
who was Ollie North's classmate at Anapolis and went with me. 
I said: "I would hate to be an engineer that had to build a highway
through these mountains because they're virgin teak forests ... rain
forests .. tremendously beautiful." 

Six days coming and going. Khun Sa didn't have any prisoners of war. 
We gave Khun Sa the letter from the White House that I had.  Thats the
only thing that let me get in there.  You don't walk in because the CIA
has a seven digit figure on Khun Sa's head and they haven't been able
to collect.  You think they're gonna let somebody like me in there. 
Say, "Hi! I wanna go visit Khun Sa!"  Doesn't work!  But I guess they
thought this guy is crazy enough because I gave this letter ... I told
Harvey, "We got to have a credential, guy."  He said, "We can't do
that, Bo.  We never do that."  I said, "Harvey, has anyone ever gone to
the Golden Triangle and come out alive?  I need something that will
convince Khun Sa we're not there to kill him. We're there for
humanitarian purposes." So Harvey said, "Well, this will be the
language:  `You are operating in cooperation with the White House ...
etc, etc.'"  It worked!  Khun Sa didn't have one single prisoner of
war, didn't know anything about prisoners of war.


[Switch to a scene with Bo and Khun Sa talking at Khun Sa's camp with
Khun Sa's troops doing practice drills in the background.  Bo is
discussing the letter from Souchek with Khun Sa.  It is nearly
impossible to decipher what is specifically being discussed because
Khun Sa's troops are incredibly loud and drown out the conversation, so
I will proceed to the next scene.  Don't worry...there are more Khun Sa
meetings to come.  The long and short of it is Khun Sa says he will
decrease or stop the drug shipments and Gritz gets it on videotape.]

BO GRITZ:
Now with Nancy Reagan saying no to drugs and Judge Ginsberg not allowed
to sit on the supreme court because he smoked marijuana ... and you're
an accessory to murder if you've ever smoked marijuana, according to Nancy
Reagan.  I figured we'd get an `attaboy'.  We didn't have prisoners,
but we had three videotapes showing Khun Sa himself.  And I thought,
"Boy, is George Bush gonna be thrilled about this!"  
We delivered those tapes to Tom Harvey just before Christmas.  You try
to call Tom Harvey now, because some news people did, and he doesn't
return your calls.  We delivered those tapes just before Christmas, Tom
Harvey called me back and said, "Bo, fantastic!  You guys actually got
in to see Khun Sa.  The CIA said he had been assassinated."  Somebody
needed some pocket change.  "And there he is talking."  And I said,
"That's right, Tom.  Harvey, what about the 900 tons?"  I figured they
were just bubbling over.  They were all right. They were dripping in
their knickers.  But it wasn't from joy.  Harvey said, "Bo ...". These
are quotes ... hand on the square ... he said, "Bo, there's no interest
here in that."  You be on the other end of the phone.  You've just come
out of Burma.  You've brought what you consider to be a way to stop 900
tons of heroin, not marijuana, and get rid of the cancer that has
infected the bureaucracy -- and there's "no interest."  I challenged
Harvey because I'm pretty hard-headed.  I said, "Tom, didn't President
Reagan appoint George Bush the number one cop to stop drugs before they
come into the United States?"  I wanted to remind him of these little
things.  And he said, "Bo, what can I tell you? There is NO INTEREST
here in doing that."  Now that is White-House-ese for saying, "Get off
this subject. Leave us alone."  I knew that we had trod upon some very
sensitive toes.  I still didn't have a clue to what was going on, but I
knew that we were getting close to finding out and I took off and went
to Burma again.

Now I want to show you some things when I got back to Burma.  [He shows
some newspaper headlines] The United States government wanted Khun Sa
killed quick and here's how they did it:

  US CALLS FOR NO MERCY IN DRUG WAR

These are "over-there" newspapers:

  AIR STRIKES AGAINST KHUN SA's HEADQUARTERS
  BURMESE AND THAI TROOPS MOVE ON KHUN SA

Finally it says, and there is a picture of Burmese and Thai troops
standing on top of a high mountain top:

  KHUN SA'S STRONGHOLD SEIZED

Now many of you are soldiers, airmen, marines, sailors.  You know that
air strikes and troops mean war.  There's hair, eyes and teeth everywhere. 
When I went back into Burma in May I took two other Americans with me. 
It was the most peaceful area.  It was exactly like we left it except
for one big change.  Remember I told you it took us three days to ride
by horse to get there in November and come out in December.  Well, when
we went in May, we went by pickup truck.  Straight from the Thai border
all the way right to the General's front door.  And on the other way
coming back there were Thai military ten-ton trucks covered and loaded. 
There's only one thing that comes out of the Golden Triangle, 
and that's heroin.  

When we got there, General Khun Sa said, "What took you so long?"  I
said, "General, I was waiting for the war to die down.  I didn't want
to get caught in all of this 26,000 troops and air strikes." And he just
laughed.  He said, "That was a newspaper war!"  I said, "What do you
mean newspaper war?"  He said, "The Thai and Burmese came to me and
said that if they don't make it look like they're doing something, they
stand to lose tens of millions of dollars this year in drug supression
funds from American taxpayers."  So Khun Sa said, "Make it look like
anything you want to, but I want a road built here."  They used the
newspapers and I want to show you something.  This one here says: "U.S.
PROVIDES ANOTHER 1.8 MILLION TO FIGHT DRUGS"  So it worked!  And this
guy is really smiling.  This is a Thai receiving a check from the U.S.
Ambassador.

Khun Sa got what he wanted.  Now he began to assemble his officers.  It
took him a week to get them all together because he brought them from
all over the place.  And now I understand why.  I thought I was just
going to talk to him, but he said no and put me off for a week.  He
assembled officers from the entire Shan territory from all over the
Golden Triangle.  They came in.  He sat everybody down.  He brought his
secretary out.  He had his secretary read from their log.  

[Scene switches to Khun Sa's headquarters.  All of Khun Sa's officers
are here along with Khun Sa.  I'd say around twenty in all.  Bo and his
companions are sitting with them.  This is where it gets VERY
interesting.  The following conversation was in broken English from
Khun Sa's end so some of the syntax may be a bit weird.)

BO GRITZ:
I cannot ask the General to cut your throat by revealing any contact
that would hurt your economy at this moment.  But I pray that he will
reveal any connections from the older time, or that will not hurt you
now; that if they are still in power, we might be free of them.  

KHUN SA:
Some of the connections I can expose to you.  Some were in Burma. Some
were in Thailand. Some were in America.  But I don't remember all of
their names and my secretary remembers them so he will give you the
information.

SECRETARY: 
In 1965 to 1975 there is one CIA in Laos. His name was Shackley.  
He was involved in the narcotics business.  And we know that Shackley 
used one civilian to organize trafficking.  His civilian name was Santos
Trafficante.  He was the organizer of trafficking for Shackley.  This
was financed by Richard Armitage who stayed in Vietnam.  After the
Vietnam War, Richard Armitage was a prominent trafficker in Bangkok. 
This was between 1975 to 1979. He was a very active trafficker in
Bangkok.  He was one of the Embassy employees.  Then after that, in 
1979, he quit from Embassy and then he established a company name the 
Far East Trading Company.  Then he used the name of his company under the
table for drug trafficking.  He then used the drug money to support the
Lao anti-communist troops.  

BO GRITZ:
So he used it in arms and munitions.

SECRETARY:
Yes.  This Richard Armitage has a lot of friends in Laos and Thailand. 
There is a lot of CIA personnel in Laos.  One of the CIA agents is
named Daniel Arnold.  This Arnold was a munitions trafficker.  There is
another one, Jerry Daniels, who organized trafficking for Richard
Armitage.  

   [Scene is cut and Bo Gritz is shown narrating.]

BO GRITZ:
One of the men named by Khun Sa. This is not me naming him.  This is
Khun Sa, the drug overlord reading from his records, naming Richard
Armitage as being a chief drug trafficker from 1965 through 1979.  You
know where Richard Armitage went in 1979?  He went to Dole's staff,
then to Reagan's campaign staff and now he is the Assistant Secretary
of Defense right underneath Mr. Carlucci.  Richard Armitage has been
responsible for recovery of U.S. prisoners of war way back before we
actually got involved with H. Ross Perot.  He is still responsible for
them.  What I'm trying to do is find you Khun Sa's letter because it
will say it best.  Here it is.  Letter from Khun Sa written to the U.S.
Justice Department dated 28 June, 1987.  I just want to read you a couple
sentences.  "During the period 1965 to 1975, CIA Chief in Laos Theodore
Shackley was in the drug business."  Now Theodore Shackley would have
been Director of Intelligence of the CIA if George Bush had not been
appointed to that post.  Theodore Shackley was then posted as the Deputy
Director for Covert Operations.  It said, "Santos Trafficante acted as
his buying and transporting agent while Richard Armitage handled the
financial section with banks in Australia."

All of a sudden the words from Jerry King came back, "Too many bureaucrats
don't want to see American prisoners returned alive."  Why? Couldn't
figure it out.  Gunboat at midnight in the middle of the Mekong [River]
with Voice of America saying we're there to abort our attack.
Walsh and the General recaptured before turnover.  Why?  Now I'll tell
you why.  If this is true, it means Richard Armitage and a lot of other
people that are named here are the least men in the world that want to
see Americans come home.  Because when American prisoners of war do
come home, whether we bring them home or they drag themselves across
that Mekong river somehow, and report to the US Embassy and aren't
destroyed there ... when they do come home, because they will, there will
be one hell of an investigation as to what took the greatest nation in
the world so long to bring home heroes who have been waiting for more
than fifteen years. When that investigation is conducted, it will show,
as Khun Sa says, that these men, these bureaucrats -- appointed, not
elected ... appointed -- have broken the faith with you and this country 
and its law; have used their office as a cover to run drugs and arms to
promote covert operations that the United States Congress did not
approve of.  Its the parallel government.  Now that may be alright.
But I'll tell you something.  It's not alright to leave hundreds of
Americans to die alone in the hands of the enemy by a bunch of wimps
who were never there.

When I came back here, I thought I was the Lone Ranger.  I said, "Boy,
I've got this information.  Somehow we've got to get it to the proper
authorities and I'm all alone."  Well, not so.  Guess who shows up in
        /\/\/\/\/\/\
Time Magazine?  H. Ross Perot.  And he's on page 18, May 4th and it
says, "Perot's Private Probes."  H. Ross Perot was not in Burma with
me, but I know now where he got his info.  Four billion dollars opens a
lot of doors for you.  It didn't open a couple of doors, however, as
I'll let you in on this story.  H. Ross Perot had gained U.S. agent
investigation reports of Richard Armitage.  Perot didn't know I was
over in Burma.  He was doing this on his own.  This article said he
pinned Richard Armitage ... (Armitage is a fat broad.  Literally.  
This is a giant of a man) ... and demanded that Armitage resign because 
it says that H. Ross Perot accused him of being a drug smuggler and an 
arms dealer.  That takes pretty big cajones.  It says that Perot
then went to his friend, George Bush.  It says that he gave evidence of
wrongdoing by Armitage.  I'm quoting. "Bush told Perot to go to the
proper authorities."  I'm still reading now.
So the billionaire called on William Webster.  He's now
head of the CIA.  It says that Perot made at least one visit to the
White House carrying a pile of documents, yet he has received no
support from the Reagan Administration.  In fact Frank Carlucci ...
Who's he?  He's the Secretary of Defense.  And who was he before? 
Deputy Director of Central Intelligence. ...  Frank Carlucci called him 
in to ask him to stop pursuing Armitage.  Talk about insulation!  And
when four billion dollars can't even get your foot in the door -- even
though the man is a good Texan from Houston -- tell me there's no
cover-up here.

Now H. Ross was working on his own.  He didn't know what Khun Sa had
told us.  Khun Sa doesn't have a television or a telephone.  He doesn't
know who Richard Armitage is.  He doesn't give a damn.  All he knows is
the people who are on his records that he's dealt with.  This affidavit,
though by a man by the name of Daniel Sheehan ... and you'll recognize
Sheehan's name if you don't know him already by the Silkwood case.  He
jumped on Kerr-McGee.  Kerr-McGee is pretty powerful.  But they
won the Silkwood case there in Oklahoma and have done a few other
things.  

    [switch to a talk-show interview with Daniel Sheehan]

DANIEL SHEEHAN (lead attorney for the Christic Institute):
There's little doubt at all that President Reagan was involved in a
conspiracy to violate the Neutrality Act.  He's been directly ordered
by the United States Congress not to mount this military operation
against Nicaragua.  They've cut off all funds for him to do so, but he
went to Saudi Arabia and various private citizens to raise the money in
total violation of the Federal Neutrality Act.  They're engaged in
violations of the arms-export control act.  They're engaged in
violations of the Federal Racketeering Act.  There is a whole federal
racketeering syndicate that they like to refer to as The Enterprise. 
Richard Secord referred to it as.  But what it is in fact, Jim, is the
off-the-shelf, stand-alone, self-financing, covert operations capacity
that Oliver North talked about Bill Casey wanting to set up.  Fact is,
that it has been set up.  It's been operating for many years now -- out
from under the control of any President; out from under the control of
the Director of Central Intelligence.  Out from under the supervision
of any intelligence committee.  Its run by Theodore Shackley, the former
Director of Covert Operations worldwide; by the CIA under George Bush
when George Bush was the director of the Central Intelligence Agency in
1976.  And this crowd has set up the off-the-shelf operation and is
carrying out not only a partnership with the drug dealers from Central
America and from Southeast Asia, but also carrying out a major
political assassination program which was participated in by William
Buckley who was the Beirut Section Chief for the CIA who was kidnapped
in March of 1984 and who was the subject of all the real negotiations
for the sale of the TOW missiles to Iran.  It was not a sale to open
any openings to the moderates in Iran, nor was it in fact a negotiation
to negotiate for the general release of hostages.  It was initiated
solely and exclusively to obtain the release of William Buckley because
he knew about the whereabouts of the off-the-shelf operation.  It was a
criminal enterprise and they feared that if the American people found
out about that there would be a huge Constitutional scandal and the
President of the United States would be impeached.

**********************************************************************

The preceding excerpts are from a transcript of the video, 
A NATION BETRAYED, which was posted to Usenet by:
jburnes@swbatl.sbc.com (Jim Burnes)
>Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: A NATION BETRAYED - PART 1
Date: 28 May 91 02:04:46 GMT
Message ID: <1991May28 . 020446 . 1637@swbatl.sbc.com>

    transcribed by John DiNardo




-Steve


From cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!csd.unb.ca!morgan.ucs.mun.ca!nstn.ns.ca!news.cs.indiana.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!ccsvax.sfasu.edu!f_gautjw Sat Oct  3 15:41:48 PDT 1992
Article: 11469 of alt.activism
Xref: oneb alt.activism:11469 alt.conspiracy:6042
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!csd.unb.ca!morgan.ucs.mun.ca!nstn.ns.ca!news.cs.indiana.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!ccsvax.sfasu.edu!f_gautjw
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: NLNS: CHRISTIAN IDENTITY (UPDATED V
Message-ID: <1992Oct2.154508.1334@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:45:08 CST
References: <9209301854.AA02095@igc.apc.org> <1296500391@igc.apc.org>
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University
Lines: 67

In article <1296500391@igc.apc.org>, cberlet@igc.apc.org (NLG Civil Liberties Committee) writes:
> 
> 
> There are scores of thoughtful and devestating critiques of the Federal 
> Reserve and its questionable policies. The views of Bo Gritz about the
> Fed are drawn from a long-list of far-right attacks on the Fed that for
> the most part track back to a conspiracy of Jewish-controlled bankers
> held on Jekyll Island off the coast of Georgia.

	But you told us it was a characteristic of *fascists* to be
against the Federal Reserve System.  Now you tell us that many thoughtful
people are devastatingly critical of it.  

	Incidentally, there *was* a meeting on Jekyll Island that was
foundational in establishing the FED.  And there were Jewish bankers
in attendance (Warburg, et. al.) although I personally don't consider
the ethnicity of the bankers important.  But the facts are there and
are a part of history.

>   You may choose to believe Gritz, a person even Soldier of Fortune
> magazine in its September issue called a huckster. You may choose
> to believe Gritz, who has written that super market bar codes are part
> of a satanic plot. You may choose to believe Gritz, who has accepted
> the nomination of the fascist Populist Party. Or you can get off your
> ass and go to a library and spend a few hours reading the many books
> on the Federal Reserve, paranoid right-wing conspiracy theories, and
> fascist rhetoric.

	I for one have never endorsed Gritz for anything and probably
never will.  I have no intention of voting for him in the upcoming
election.  But I am disgusted to see you malign this proven patriot,
who apparently so upset you with his courageous rescue of the remnants
of Randy Weaver's family, with words like *fascist* and huckster.  You
can get your information from "Soldier of Fortune" magazine if you wish,
but I have more reliable literary sources available.  Incidentally, I've
already been to the Library and over time have found out a good bit of
disturbing information about the Federal Reserve, all without having to
rely on anyone's campaign literature.  I would recommend that you make
a few trips yourself.

>   Gritz is a hero to the same people who thought Franco, Hitler and
> Il Dulce were terific leaders. Congratulations for proving this
> level of naive foolishness infects some leftists, just like it did
> in the 20's and 30's.
> -Chip Berlet

	If you'll bother to ask around a little, I think you will find
a good many people who respect Gritz who don't think Hitler or Franco
were worth spit.  What continues to trouble me is your fuzzy use of
terms like *fascist* and Nazi.  You have been politely asked to offer
your concise meaning of the term *fascist*.  All you've given us is the
lengthy posting of historical tidbits and aphorisms called "What is
Fascism?" and a list of people or organizations that you have at one
time or another called *fascist*.  But we are still waiting for your
definition.  You owe that to us if you are going to continue to hurl
the insulting epithet *fascist* with such free abandon while describing
yourself as a professional researcher.

	Most people reading this could readily given an adequate and
concise three or four line definition of communism, capitalism, or
plutocracy.  One can define some of the most abstract terms in 
mathematics in no more than a line or two.  So, once again, would you
please tell us just exactly what you mean when you use the term *fascist*
so we can better understand on what wavelength you are operating.
Thanks.

Joe Gaut


From cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!scd.hp.com!hplextra!hpfcso!reykja Sun Oct  4 00:32:50 PDT 1992
Article: 37423 of talk.politics.misc
From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 07:09:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Why not Gritz? (Was: why perot?)
Message-ID: <7610058@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!scd.hp.com!hplextra!hpfcso!reykja
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
References: 
Lines: 55

>   According to a newspaper report reprinted here in t.p.m. Gritz gave
>   the NAZI salute to Weaver's supporters.  He belongs to an organization
>   that wants to ban foreign workers and ownership of companies in
>   the US.  They want to "discourage" (their words - I have no idea what
>   they mean) nonChristian religions in the US.   Gritz basically makes
>   David Duke look like Mister Rogers.    Don't vote for this clown if
>   you care about any of the ideals that built this country.
> 
> 
> ---peter
> 

        That is absolutely right! Bo Gritz has a history of association
with various racist organizations. In fact, he has made appearances at
the LaPorte Church of Christ in Colorado where Identity preacher, Pete
Peters, is notoriously racist. 

        There is also some evidence that this same church is where 
David Lane and Bruce Pierce hung out the night before killing Alan
Berg. It is well-known that other members of The Order attended there
regularly. 

        Bo Gritz is one scary dude! When he talks about nonChristian
religions, he is not just talking about paganism, Judaism or Islam! He
is talking about Protestants, Catholics and Methodists as well. One of 
the basic tenets of Identity is that they (read:white people) are the
lost tribes of Israel and the true holders of the Covenant of Abraham!
All other so-called Christians are not 'true' Christians in their 
belief. 

        War hero? Even if Gritz didn't have such creepy connections, 
the last thing this country needs is a 'war hero'! What we need is
a person of compassion.     

        If anyone is interested in more information on the associations
of Bo Gritz, Jack Mohr or any of these figures, please contact me
at 3107 W. Colorado Ave #172, Colorado Springs, CO 80904. (I am a 
hate group investigator with the Religious Movement Resource Center and 
have a great deal of documentation on these folks.) 

       The address and e-mail are as follows:

                       Religious Movement Resource Center
                       3107 W. Colorado Ave #172
                       Colorado Springs, CO 80904

                       E-mail : rks@cscns.com


     (Don't get freaked out by the name of the organization. It is not
a fundamentalist organization. The name was chosen when the only 
investigations going on were dangerous and destructive religious cults.)

> 
>   


From cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona Sun Oct  4 07:43:42 PDT 1992
Article: 11518 of alt.activism
Xref: oneb alt.politics.elections:14918 alt.politics.clinton:10714 alt.politics.bush:8994 alt.politics.perot:3042 alt.conspiracy:6072 alt.activism:11518
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.perot,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Subject: FILE: Bo Gritz Speech - 1/4 (LONG)
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 05:24:06 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Oct4.052406.22035@bilver.uucp>
Lines: 814

This is a speech that Bo Gritz gave back in August at a rally in
Tehachapi,Calif. I d/l it from the Phoenix Liberator BBS.

This speech is l o n g. It is posted in 4 parts.

Disclaimer: I'm just the messenger here, so do with this what
you will. I take no stand, nor am I connected in any way to the
Gritz campaign or to America West and/or George Green. It's being
posted to the alt.conspiracy,alt.activism and alt.election* newsgroups
as I believe it to be relevant to ongoing political discussions.

------------Begin included text----------------------------------------


             BO  GRITZ'  SPEECH  8/16/92


             (Editor's note: The following is the complete text of
             presidential candidate Colonel James "Bo" Gritz' dynamic
             speech at the well-attended citizens' rally in Tehachapi,
             California  on Sunday afternoon, August 16, 1992.)

             8/16/92    GRITZ

             Brother, have you ever lost a son?  Have you ever lost a
             father?  I lost my dad in World War II.  He was a pilot.  He
             didn't come home from Europe.  I lost twenty-five hundred
             brothers in southeast Asia.  They didn't come home either.
             It wasn't my idea to go looking for them.  But in 1979, we
             had some Generals who knew that Americans were still left
             behind.  Now, in the newspapers, we read where they were all
             right.  We had a President who didn't care.  His name was
             Jimmy Carter.  We had a man named Cyrus Vance who was
             Secretary of State, and they said, "No, there are no living
             Americans.  We won't authorize one cent for any pursuit of
             prisoners of war.  And so, like patriots, we did it anyway.

             I salute those few Generals because they are few in number
             who were the original ones, other than the families, to keep
             the faith.  So, they call a man named H. Ross Perot and they
             explained the situation that the President and the Secretary
             of State would not authorize it, but they wanted to know if
             he would cover a mission to try and determine whether there
             were or were not prisoners left alive and I was the person
             that they chose to send to make that determination.

             On the tenth story of a building in the EDS (Electronic Data
             Systems) complex in Dallas, Texas, H. Ross Perot drew me
             near and said, "Bo, I've been asked by General Eugene Tighe
             to have you go to Southeast Asia.  Now, you go over there
             and you do everything you have to do.  You come back here
             and you tell us there aren't any American prisoners still
             left alive."

             Now, that was my intent when I left Dallas in April of 1979.
             I didn't want there to be any of my family still alive in
             the hands of the enemy six years after we had pulled out,
             but I'm a man of truth.  As a matter of fact,  the thing
             that I used to get into trouble for more than anything else
             my whole life, even when I was a little popper, was for
             being at the back of my Grandma's closet trying to see what
             was back behind all of the linens and the old clothes that
             were stacked up there.  I wanted to know even if it was an
             old rat box.  I wanted to see what it was.  I was in trouble
             because I'd climb up on a chair and get on the cabinet and
             reach and look up into the top drawers and want to see what
             was in the bottles all the way at the back.

             The very first schools that I went to in Special Forces were
             safe cracking and lock picking.  It was made in heaven for
             me to be a Special Forces Soldier.

             The truth is a very valuable and elusive commodity,
             especially in America today.  But they chose the wrong man
             if they wanted me to go over and come back and say something
             that wasn't true, because when I did come back in May of
             1979, I had bad news for them.  My reports were that there
             are American prisoners still in the hands of our enemy, and,
             boy, it started.

             We immediately had all kinds of bureaucratic problems in
             Washington.  Still we kept on.  In April of 1980, I was in
             Southeast Asia and I sent a patrol across the river to check
             out ten targets that the hated CIA had given me as possible
             locations of living prisoners of war.  One of the patrols
             returned saying, "Yes, there are thirty Americans alive
             today at Nhommarath.

             As a matter of fact, I just saw in the L.A. newspaper where
             the Nhommarath reports were finally being made public since
             1980.

             We didn't know whether to believe them or not.  We came back
             and we asked for a SR-71 which could provide oblique
             photography.  That SR-71 can see your face from one hundred
             thousand feet above the earth.  We would know for certain
             who the prisoners were.  It was of such low priority, and
             that was May, that we didn't get anything until November of
             1980 when we were voting for Ronald Reagan.

             I voted for him twice.  He was a movie star.  I didn't think
             he'd hurt the United States of America.  I didn't vote for
             George Bush.

             In November, a satellite took a photograph of Nhommarath and
             there was a prison compound and there were thirty American
             prisoners of war,  confirmed because A-1 intelligence is the
             very highest intelligence rating that we have in our system.
             There was a very discernible figure "52" that had been made
             by the occupants of Nhommarath camp in the ground where it
             could be seen from the air.

             The number "52" was a code.  It meant that there were
             Americans present; don't bomb this location.

             This got everyone excited.  Suddenly, they were going to
             make the rescue not using my forces, but they were going to
             use Delta Force at Ft. Bragg.  Finally, in March of 1981,
             the President was already installed and all these decisions
             had been made.  I was called back to Washington, DC and in
             the bowels of the Defense Intelligence Agency located in the
             Pentagon, Admiral Jerry O. Tuttle told me, "Bo, we're going
             to make this rescue using Delta.  I want you to go home and
             allow these official forces to do this."  I said, "Admiral
             Tuttle, I don't believe the government is going to do it
             because Ronald Reagan is already being cast as a hawk.
             We're criticising the Russians for being in Afghanistan.
             What happens when we send the Marines in to Laos and they
             fail like the rescue did at 'Desert One' in Iran?" I said,
             "It's going to be like the Bay of Pigs.  In the last hours,
             they're going to turn the planes around."  And I said,
             "Please, let us continue in lock-step.  We won't do anything
             until the official mission is set aside."

             It was all Special Intelligence in those days and I couldn't
             even tell the people that were with me exactly what was
             going on and some of them became disgruntled.

             Finally in April, Admiral Tuttle told me, "The planes will
             not be turned around.  This rescue is going to go forward."
             And then on May 21st, he called me.  I was living in
             California, in the Los Angeles area, and he said, "Bo, the
             planes have been turned around.  The mission is off."  We
             weren't going to bring home the Americans we knew were
             there.

             Now, I see in the newspapers, I saw it yesterday in the
             Denver Post, where the 1981 agreements with Vietnam and our
             rescue efforts in Laos are now public knowledge.  But what
             are we doing about it?

             You've got Henry Kissinger on Nightline  with Mr. Kerry from
             the state of Massachusetts, head of the Prisoner of War
             Committee, saying, "It's outrageous that anyone would accuse
             a bureaucratic official of leaving Americans behind
             knowingly in the hands of the enemies."  HENRY KISSINGER
             SHOULD BE INDICTED FOR TREASON.  They gave him the Nobel
             Peace Prize, but I want you to note something.  They gave
             Henry Kissinger the Nobel Peace Prize and that fat turkey
             accepted it, but Le Duc Tho, who was the other negotiator,
             out of honor refused it because he knew what was going on.
             And, along with that Nobel Peace prize, we also gave it to
             Gorbachev.  I'm sure we'll be offering it to George Bush by
             next year.

             There ought to be an indictment on the side of truth, an
             indictment for treason for knowingly leaving those prisoners
             behind in the hands of our enemies.

             Now, I don't have the time because I have some other points
             that I want to make.  But I just want to summarize this day
             because I started this talk about prisoners.  If you take my
             newsletter, or if the media has any way cooperated, we
             called for a national day of fasting and prayer that God
             Almighty might do for us what we haven't been able to
             accomplish for ourselves, and that is the delivery of our
             brothers home while they're still alive.

             I want to tell you that there were five occasions since 1983
             where we have known where American prisoners of war were
             located and we have gone seeking to bring them home and in
             every case in the last moments, we met the enemy and, as
             Pogo has said, "We found him to be us", meaning the
             bureaucrats in Washington DC.  Five occasions we've had to
             leave the Americans behind because we've denied the victory.
             The reason I have called for a national day of fasting on
             Saturday (yesterday) and prayer today is because if we do
             not bring our brothers home now, they will not be
             figuratively, they will be literally buried and it will be
             done before I can ever be president.  It cannot wait for
             that to happen and it will be done so that Mobil Oil can
             start drilling offshore in Vietnam and it will be done so
             that other contractual arrangements can go forward and it
             will be done so that the Soviet Union can receive twenty-
             four billion dollars in aid from us.  And it will be done so
             that the politicians will feel safe again that no American,
             no matter how determined we are, will ever come home alive.

             Well, we've tried.  We've done everything we can.  You may
             or may not be familiar with what we have tried.  When I say
             "we", I mean America.  I represent the Lazarus Team.  My
             Team was official.  I had the backing of the Central
             Intelligence Agency.  I had the backing of the Defense
             Intelligence Agency, the Intelligence Support Activity.  We
             couldn't do it.  You haven't been able to do it in whatever
             other private efforts have been going on out there.  But,
             I've learned something in my life: it's caused me to be
             fearless.  It has given me the confidence that a bumble bee
             has to fly despite what Northrop University says, that "It's
             not aerodynamically capable of sustaining flight."  It's the
             thing that has allowed the few to do and give battle against
             the many and win against the many.  It's the thing that
             separated Elijah from the armies of Assyria.  It's the thing
             that gave victory to Gideon and three hundred against a
             hundred and thirty thousand Midianites.  It's the thing that
             allowed George Washington to bring King George to his knees.
             It's the thing that permitted a young sergeant by the name
             of Willie Brown to, in absolute desperation with no chance
             of survival, lead a small contingent of Colonial soldiers
             against the outer British battlements at Yorktown.

             On that day, it was indeed a forlorn night because all of
             the men knew none of them would return.  They were a small
             group going to go against the tens of thousands.  How could
             they return?  And finally, that thing that lit up Gideon.
             The thing that made Elijah tell his young helper, "Fear not
             for they that be with us are more than they would be with
             them."  That Something got into Willie Brown and he said,
             "Follow me" and ten minutes after they launched their
             attack, they weren't just into the outer, they had broken
             into the very command center at Yorktown and the British
             regiments were withdrawing and falling back in fear and
             confusion and Washington sent his Colonial Soldiers to start
             filling in the gap and the Battle at Yorktown was won and
             the American Revolution was won at Yorktown, was it not?
             And how many of Willie Brown's volunteers died that night?
             NOT ONE.  And how many volunteers were wounded that night?
             NOT ONE, except Willie Brown, who took a bayonet through his
             hand, and he was the first American soldier to ever receive
             the Purple Heart from General George Washington for military
             merit above and beyond the call of duty.

             God bless Willie Brown.  God bless those who have put on a
             uniform.  God bless those with the courage to do what the
             faint-hearted fearing will not do.  God bless the three
             percent that stood against the ninety-seven percent that
             said, "We can live under the King just a little while
             longer."


             Friends, it is That Element that will allow our prisoners to
             be returned to us if enough of us will recognize our
             dependency upon God Almighty and will call upon him with our
             unified voices.  I'm not a preacher, but I've got a very
             personal relationship with God.  You gain that with over a
             hundred special operations in places you should have never
             come out of.  I know that God is.  I know that God is my
             father and I know that somehow God hears even my voice and I
             know that he'll hear all of our voices because all across
             the nation, I've asked and I have a feeling that it's being
             done in the tens of thousands.  I've asked people who would,
             "Would you fast?"  Remember Esther of the Bible?  It looked
             like all of her people were going to be slain, and so she
             told them, "You fast and you pray."  And in Psalm 35, David
             fasts.  When you fast, every time you feel a little hunger
             it reminds you of the purpose of your fast, your prayer,
             your petition.  I hope that some of you have fasted with us
             through Saturday and we're prepared to offer a prayer.  If
             you don't mind, I'll be the voice for this prayer:

             Father, God Almighty, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy
             name.  Father, we thank thee for this earth.  We thank thee
             Father for this life and citizenship in this the greatest
             nation on the globe.  Father, we thank thee for the
             knowledge that we are thy children if we will be.  Father,
             we thank thee for the knowledge that if we ask it in
             righteousness it shall be given us,and thou has promised us
             that where two or three gather there are You, also, in thy
             spirit.  Father, we are thankful for all the things for thou
             art the author of all good that thou has given us.  Father,
             we gather together in this company, this day with a single
             purpose in our heart.  Father, every spirit speaks out in
             angelic language.  Father, every soul now speaks with one
             purpose, a righteous purpose with no thought of any
             selfserving reason.  Father, we ask thee, in thy mercy lift
             up our prisoners, bring our brothers and restore them to
             their families in this great nation, Father, while they
             still live.  We seek only thy will.  We know not thy agenda.

             Father, we have all faith and hope in thee and we know that
             yours is the hand that has made this universe and all things
             that are good. Father, that same hand can restore even the
             life to Lazarus.  And Father, that same hand can restore
             even our brothers unto us.  Father, hear our righteous
             prayer.  Father, grant us this petition that this nation
             might awaken again to what is right and wrong in conscience.
             Father, grant that this be given to us that we might clearly
             give thee the glory for we are children and thou art our
             Father.

             I want to thank you for whatever faith you've had to join
             with me.  Friends, we've run out of solutions on these
             prisoners.  I've always had another way to go.  Everytime
             one door was closed, it looked like another was opened.
             I've fallen on my knees in absolute desperation and cried
             out in God's name, "Why can't we just get a break when what
             we're trying to do is righteous?", and I never knew why we
             couldn't win the victory.  I do know this, I've learned this
             in combat and I'll share it with you: before the guilty can
             ever be punished before the bar of justice, the innocent
             must suffer.  So when your children suffer and when your
             loved ones are taken from you in the challenging times
             ahead, and when things happen that you don't undertand, it's
             your job to keep faith with God almighty for without God we
             are nothing.  And we keep faith in God almighty and we must
             understand that someday the blood of those who have
             innocently been harmed will cry out from the ground, even as
             Abel cried out for justice against Cain.  And God in his
             wisdom and in his justice and in his time will cause all
             things to be right.

             Now there are things that we can do and I want to outline
             some things that we must do.  When I say "we", it doesn't
             have to be Bo Gritz because when you came here today, I hope
             you came here to learn something.  If you leave here and you
             haven't learned anything, don't go.  Stop me right up there
             where I came in and say, "Bo, I didn't learn a thing here
             today."  I will scrape my brain, I promise you, to try to
             divulge for you.  If I have to I'll reach down into the
             Special Intelligence area and the Top Secrets.  I'm going to
             tell you something that has made it worth your while coming
             here this day.  That's my purpose.

             There are some things that we have to do.  If we do not do
             them, America ceases to be the land that we now live in.
             Anyone could do it.  Some of you.  And thank you for being
             in uniform wearing Bo Gritz tee shirts and "No New World
             Order" tee shirts, I appreciate your support.  What I am
             doing as one man, I'm lifting a banner of Liberty and
             fearlessly I am going to go forward and I can't do it alone.
             But with your support, we are going to take Capitol Hill and
             we are going to restore and revive the Constitution of the
             United States and we're going to place this government back
             under God where it belongs once and for all.

             (Applause.)

             But what you're supporting, it could be any of you.  I'm
             just one who has volunteered.  I've come forward.  I've said
             through my experiences God has preserved me and allowed me
             to become fearless of all physical things on this earth.  My
             experiences have given me the confidence to move forward
             without compromise, but it could be any one of you.  It
             could be Clinton.  It could be Bush.  But, the chances are
             it will not be.  I believe in conversion.  I believe that
             when Saul was struck by the Holy Ghost upon the road and
             became Paul, that that could happen to George Bush.  But I
             tell you, it would be Divine Intervention, wouldn't it?  I
             don't know if it could happen to Bill Clinton, but I suppose
             that it could.

             (Laughter)

             It could be anyone.  That is my point.  As long as we have
             the same objectives, we're supporting one thing and it's
             real simple, it's in one page and it's called The
             Constitution of the United States of America.  If we 'll
             just support that, friends, we will have prosperity, we'll
             have health care, we'll have everything we need in this
             nation.  But, without it and we're about like a barrel going
             over the edge at Niagara Falls if we don't act now, we will
             deserve what it is that we went over for.  And so, you
             represent a remnant.  I'm sure that Bill Clinton will
             probably come to Tehachapi, don't you think?  I know George
             Bush is going to land out here at the Tehachapi Airport and
             he'll assemble and there will probably be thousands.  I'll
             bet your local newspaper will be here, but, I'll bet you,
             you'll leave here not knowing one new thing.  I'll bet you
             leave here with Bushlip.  I'll bet you leave here with a
             little bit of Clinton's hips, maybe, but you won't have any
             new knowledge at all about how to get this nation back on
             our feet as a healthy and as a sovereign and as a solvent
             nation.  It's not you that I'm worried about.

             George Washington told his troops, "In your hands rests the
             destiny of hundreds of millions of unborn Americans."  In
             your hands rests the destiny today of two hundred and fifty
             million living Americans.  And I think we ought to be
             ashamed of ourselves.

             We should recognize what we are.  We are prodigal children
             of the most high God.  We have taken a birthright that is
             the greatest on the globe and haven't we squandered it?  And
             like the prodigal child, we have taken all that has been
             given to us in our inheritance and we have allowed it to be
             taken from us by those who are of much lesser stature in
             this life.  Now, just as the money lenders are about ready
             to put the chains of slavery around our hands and our
             ankles, we'd better wake up and cry, "Father, Father, help
             me.  Father, thou has given me a great birthright and I have
             spent it foolishly and now the lenders, Father, are about to
             put me in prison.  Help Me."

             I believe God will hear our voice.  I think that he will
             help us, but only as much as we're willing to help
             ourselves.  And so it means that you're not going to have
             two-hundred and fifty million Americans falling out
             underneath the trees to hear a message of truth.  Most of
             them, ninety-seven percent (wasn't that what it was during
             the Revoltionary War), they are going to continue to sleep
             on, like Gulliver.  They'll wake up to find they've been
             pinned to the ground by the threads of tyranny that have
             gradually been woven there by those who would be master.

             You are the remnant.  You are the sons.  You are the
             daughters.  You're His children.  You hear His voice.  He
             knows you and you know Him, and so, you have no fear, but,
             it is not you that I'm concerned about.  It's those people
             that are less than 3 feet tall running around here.  Those
             are the ones that you should be concerned about, because if
             you are a great-grandparent and the Lord were to call you
             today, "Don't go."  Tell God almighty, "I'm sorry, please, I
             can't go.  Give me just a little more time that my great-
             grandchild will not be destined to a life of debt slavery
             because, Father, when I could have been laboring, I was
             traveling around America in my Winnebago.  I was enjoying
             this life but I have awakened and my sons and my daughters
             need my help.  Let me have the time, Father.  Let me have
             the time to free them from the debt slavery that I've
             allowed them to accumulate.

             DEBT  SLAVERY

             And how do we do it?  People continue to write me letters
             and they continue to call and they want more and more
             definition.  To me, it was fairly easy.  I just say, "The
             Constitution."  And I figure people can go in there and read
             and they'll understand it, but, it isn't that easy,
             apparently, and so I want to give you a very quick lesson,
             if I might, in money because the very first problem that
             we've got to solve in America is this economy.  DEBTORS ARE
             NOT CHOOSERS.  And, is it not true that the lenders are
             preparing the shackles right now as I speak?

             THE  PLAGUE  OF  COMPOUND  INTEREST

             I was born January of 1939.  The debt of the United States
             was 16.8 billion dollars.  Gosh, that's a lot of money,
             isn't it?  Well, in forty years it wasn't anything because
             the debt had gone from 16 to a thousand and do you think
             that's a pretty precipitous climb?  That's nothing, because
             from 1981 to 1989, our debt tripled from 1 to 3 trillion
             dollars in just eight years.  Now that's something!  Is that
             Reaganomics?  Is that a Congress that is irresponsible?
             Friends, that is compound interest.  That's what that is.
             It wouldn't have made any difference who was in the
             government.  It would have been the same.  It's called
             compound interest and today it is four trillion and it will
             soon be five and six trillion.

             Now Lester Thurow...  How many of you are familiar with him?
             If you are put your hand up.  Lester Thurow, he's a world
             renowned economist from MIT.  He just put out a book called
             HEAD TO HEAD.  The reason I say this is because you're
             seeing already in the speeches prepared and put on these
             three by five cards, for Clinton and for Bush to read, the
             exact thoughts that Lester Thurow had put in his new book.
             Lester Thurow says, in conclusion, that "America needs a
             fifty percent income tax, not a thirty percent income tax."
             He says, "America needs a twenty percent value added tax on
             all the things we buy.  Europe does it."  He says, "America
             needs to be spending four dollars a gallon for gasoline
             because that would give us four hundred billion dollars so
             we could pay our bill", like H. Ross Perot said.

             Do you believe that it is possible that Lester Thurow, a
             Ph.D. of economics at MIT, could be so deep into academia,
             he cannot see what the real problem is in the American
             economy today?  Do you think it's true or could it even be
             worse that Lester Thurow is part of the problem?

             Well see, I don't know what it is, but I do know this that
             you're getting the pablum coming right out of MIT, the same
             pablum you're gonna start hearing from the President and
             from Clinton until the election and it's going to be, you
             watch it, if we don't change this system, if we challenged
             and had a thousand dollars a gallon of gasoline, would that
             pay the bill?  It will not.  Why?  COMPOUND INTEREST.
             So, I'm going to present you with a simple solution.

             Friends, if you have a better one or if you have another
             one, I need to know it.  But if you do not then you make
             sure that the media that refuses to attend these conventions
             because they have been bought and paid for are demanded to
             give me airing.  They are intellectual prostitutes.  The
             only purpose they serve are the people who own themto
             vilify and to lie outright.  You make sure that when Bill
             Clinton comes here or Bush comes here, wherever you are,
             that you get your hand up or you call in on Larry King Live
             or you do whatever you have to do.  You may have to lie,
             cheat and steal a little bit and tell them, "I just want to
             tell Mr. Bush what a wonderful Commander in Chief he has
             been!  What a great victory it is going to be when we go
             back into Iraq!"  Now, they'll probably let you on and then
             when you get on say, "Bush, I've been wanting to say this to
             you for a long time..."  And then, before they can bleep you
             off the air, you make sure you put some facts before him.
             You know how to do it.  It'll work for you.

             If they do not recognize this solution, I'm going to give
             you and they don't give a better one to you, don't support
             them.  Don't get into the "evil of two lessors" because
             that's what it is today and, friends, it's the last choice
             you're going to have other than to reject a literal mark of
             satan that will soon be coming if we stay with this system.
             Now, leading up to my solution, I'm going to go over a few
             papers with you.  The reason that I do this is people ask me
             all the time, "Bo, explain to me, write me a letter, tell me
             exactly how this works."  I'm going to tell you precisely
             how this works.  Take notes.  If you don't like taking notes
             then see my bride when this is over and the very same papers
             that I present to you are available to you.  They'll cost
             you $5.00 because they are considerable, but you'll have
             them so then you can xerox them.  They're official.  There's
             no copyright and so, you can spread them around to your
             friends.  Let me give you, by your request, the exact
             solution to this money problem.

             I have to dig into my bag.  Oops! (papers fly out.)  You
             always wonder what falls out.  I'm kind of guided by The
             Spirit when something falls out.  I look at it.  Maybe it's
             something I ought to be talking about.  These are letters
             from the Treasury Department.  I'm going to give a lesson
             and I hope that when you leave here, you will know more
             about money and you will know more about exactly how to get
             us back, as a solvent nation, than your bankers.  You'd
             better know more than your legislatures!  But then I want
             you to do something with this knowledge.  Please, don't just
             leave here today and let this knowledge lay dormant.
             We asked the question of the Treasury Department, "How does
             the money come into creation?"  I mean this stuff here (Bo
             is now holding up a dollar bill) has got to come to us
             somehow.  We ask, "How does it get here?"  And here is the
             answer.

             QUOTE:  "The actual creation of money...", this is from the
             Department of the Treasury "...always..." remember that
             word, that's an important word, "...the actual creation of
             money ALWAYS involves the extension of credit by private
             commercial banks."  And so how does ALL money come into
             existence?  PRIVATE COMMERCIAL BANKS.  Does it come into
             existence with the Federal Government?  No, it does not.  It
             comes into existence by loaning from private commercial
             banks.

             Well now, if you have to borrow money in order to get it,
             aren't you going to also be paying an interest?  So, where
             does the interest come from because that's pretty important.
             Gephardt, (and we were talking about the Balanced Budget
             Amendment), said, "We owe four hundred billion dollars just
             in interest every year."  Where's it come from?  Well, let
             me read the answer because we got it from the Department of
             the Treasury.

             It is signed by Russell L. Monk, Assistant General Counsel.
             QUOTE:  "Money for paying the interest on borrowed money
             comes from the same source as the other money comes from."
             All right, let's make sure we've got it straight.  Where
             does all money come from?  How was it created?  Through
             loans by commercial banks.  All interest to pay on the loans
             that come from commercial banks has to come as a form of a
             loan from a commercial bank, true or false?  It's true.  Can
             we ever get out of debt under that system?

             We can never get out of debt under that system.  So, the
             next question was, "Well, gosh, how does the Federal Reserve
             get this money?"  And it says, QUOTE:  "Currency notes are
             placed into circulation by your local financial
             organizations and can only be obtained by that
             source." Linda L. Coleman, External Affairs.

             Then we said, "Well, the mints..." because we know the mints
             make the money, "...when the mints make the money, are the
             Federal banks charged the same?  Is it given to them at face
             value?"  QUOTE:  "The notes are sold to the Federal
             Reserve..."  By the way, is the Federal Reserve federal?  No
             more federal than the "Federal Laundry".  No more federal
             than the Federal Bakery.  No more federal than Fred Smith's
             Federal Express.  But listen to this: "The notes are sold to
             the Federal Reserve at the cost of manufacture, not at face
             value."

             Well, let's see.  My wife lets me carry one of these.  I
             can't spend it unless I ask her, but I think I've got a
             hundred dollars unless she went through my pocket this
             morning.  Yeah, here it is.  (Bo holds up a $100 bill.)  Oh,
             you know how it is!  I've got a clean pair of britches and
             everything is already changed over for today's event with
             you.  So, here's a hundred dollar bill.  Now, this $100
             costs 2 cents to make.  How much does the Federal Reserve
             pay?  By the way, this was written by Donna Polk, Director
             of the Mint.  She's the one that says, "These notes are
             given to the Federal Reserve at the cost of manufacture."
             Two cents.  Now, let's say I've got a $1 bill.  How much
             does that cost?  Two cents.  So, a one dollar bill or a
             hundred dollar bill makes no difference.

             But then these are loaned to us at face value, are they not?
             What must you put up think about that just for a minute in
             order to get this loan?

             Now, next point:  We ask, "Well, is there anything behind
             this at all?"  Because when you borrow it, don't you have to
             put up your home?  Don't you have to put up your vehicle?
             Don't you have to put up your time, your labor, your talent,
             something that is valuable?  Isn't that true?  You have to
             give it substance, do you not, to the banks, so they will
             give you this stuff.  So obviously, there should be
             something behind it.  Just to make sure you know, all of
             these letters are available to you in our information
             packet.  We asked them about it and here's what they said.

             They said, QUOTE:  "Federal Reserve Notes are not redeemable
             in gold or silver or any other commodity.  Federal Reserve
             Notes have not been backed by anything since 1933."  So, if
             they're not backed by anything, we asked the United States
             Treasury, "If they're not backed by anything, are they worth
             anything?"

             Department of the Treasury Bureau of Engraving and Printing,
             signed by M.M. Schneider, Executive Assistant, QUOTE: "Money
             without backing is worthless."

             So what is this worth?  Zero.  The interesting thing, most
             easy number to remember Zero.  Now, if we make these things
             and give them to the Federal Reserve at 2 cents and they
             loan them to us at face value and we have to put up our land
             and all that we have worked hard to gain and even the
             interest has to be borrowed, somebody is always going
             bankrupt, aren't they, just to pay the interest.  A million
             bankruptcies in the last twelve months.  More than in any
             other time in our history over a million.

             Well, as a devious mind because in Special Forces the thing
             that's special is that the things we do have never been done
             before and so we have to get up out of the ozone layer so
             that we can have access to original thought.  And so, before
             I could ever be a presidential candidate, I had to answer
             the question How am I going to be able to solve the national
             debt?  So, I went back and started looking at what had been
             done in the past so I wouldn't have to re-invent the wheel,
             and Thomas Jefferson says, "If you ever let the banks take
             over the currency and credit, your children wake up as
             slaves on the continent that was conquered by their
             fathers."  Is that true today?  Then I went and looked at
             Andy Jackson, Old Hickory, they almost impeached him.  He
             wasn't popular at all, was he?  Because in 1832, he said to
             the Federal Banks, who had grown up in spite of Jefferson,
             he said, "You are a den of vipers and thieves and by the
             power of the Creator, I'll rout you out."  And he did.  And
             in 1836, what was the debt of the United States?  Easy
             number to remember.  What was it?  ("Zero!")  Thank you.  It
             was absolutely Zero!

             So, I started thinking...  Well, if Andy Jackson can make it
             zero and Abraham Lincoln in 1862 needed 450 million dollars
             and the banks were ready to loan it to him to continue the
             Civil War and he said, "It is not right for us to burden our
             children with our debts."  God be praised for Abraham
             Lincoln.  So he started printing "greenbacks".  There was no
             gold or silver behind them, but there was no debt behind
             them either.  He just printed green-backs and the banks
             called him extreme.  They said, "He's a radical."  They
             said, "He can't do that."  But, he did.

             Now, I'm going to test our Ph.D. here on the stage (Dr. Ed
             Young) because if Abe Lincoln would have accepted 450
             million dollars and the rate at that time of interest was a
             mere 20 percent, what would it be worth today in 1992?
             'Cause we never pay the principal, do we?  We just pay the
             interest.  So, what would it be worth today?  I can't read
             it because it's the next figure up from quadrillion, what is
             that?  Sextillions?  Isn't it Sextillions?  It sounds like
             it would be, in the order today sex something-or-other.  I
             believe it is sextillions.  Is there that much money in the
             world sextillions?  I don't think there is.  I can read the
             one that is down from that.  At 10 percent, at half the
             interest, it would be a hundred thirty-one trillion dollars!

             Now, do you want to say, thank you, Lord, for Abraham
             Lincoln and for the Holy Spirit that intervened and allowed
             him to say "No!" to those scum, those bankers, those
             politicians that belong on the bottom of the ocean with
             whale droppings and almost every lawyer that I can think of?
             Abraham Lincoln saved us.  He knew we would be debt slaves
             if he accepted that compound interest loan.

             Well now, I started digging around in the Treasury a little
             bit and it's kind of interesting.  I've had a lot of help.
             There's a guy named Byron Dale, he puts this out, and Byron
             said, "Bo, last year we minted five hundred million dollars
             in coins."  Does anybody have a quarter?  How much do you
             think a quarter is actually worth?  It costs us...  (Someone
             hands Bo a quarter)  Thank you.  Now, you'll see why you
             won't get this back because it's really worthless!  A
             quarter costs 1.008 cents to make.  So, there's no silver in
             there.  Is there?  No.  And so that quarter only costs a
             cent, but when we give it to the Federal Reserve, they have
             to give us credit for 25 cents.  They have to give us credit
             for the face value.  Are you beginning to follow me here?
             And so when we mint a silver dollar, it's not really silver,
             but how much credit must they give the debt of the United
             States?  One dollar.  It only costs us about 2 cents to do
             that, but, it's a dollar.  As a  matter of fact, a Susan B.
             Anthony costs a lot less than a half a dollar does because
             it's smaller.

             Well, if that's true...  Let's make sure we've got it all
             right, so there won't be any confusion here when you leave
             today.  You're going to know without locking Congress up at
             Andrews Air Force Base exactly how to get America out of
             debt if these are given to them at 2 cents because that's
             all it costs to make and yet they loan them back to us at
             face value and remember that now so we're four trillion
             dollars in debt with these, aren't we?  And, if this only
             costs a cent to make, but they have to give us 25 cents
             credit, what is wrong with minting a giant coin (Bo holds up
             a 5" diameter, giant coin) that says "Four Trillion
             Dollars Debt of the United States Paid in Full In God We
             Trust."  (Huge round of applause.)  Now, I ask you, let's be
             very clear about it: is that legal?  I'd be very
             enthusiastic if I thought I could get my great grandkids, my
             grandchild who's thirteen now and my three mules and a
             daughter, if I could get them out of debt because they all
             owe $42,000.  That's what every one of you owe and that's
             what your kids owe and  if  you're born today, that's the
             price of being an American.  I'd be excited about thinking
             on this because is this coin going to be made out of gold?
             Is it going to be made out of silver?  No, it has to be made
             out of pot metal because it has to be worthless!  It has to
             equal what it is that they have been giving us all this
             time!

             BUSH'S  TRUE  ALLEGIANCE

             Now, you may say, I'll bet you, if you're from the media
             because I've tested the media with this and they say, "Huh?
             Uh.  Um.  Uh, I don't think you can do that, Bo.  Well,
             Department of the Treasury, QUOTE:  "The former Chairman of
             the House Coinage Subcommittee correctly points out that we
             could pay off the National debt with a single four trillion
             dollar coin."  Now, tell me that I cannot do it.  And so,
             will we do it?  Yes!  Will George Bush do it?  No!.  Will
             Bill Clinton do it?  No!  Because, you see, they have a
             different master.  On C-SPAN, George Bush is recorded as
             having said, "Whatever I am, whatever I become, I owe to
             David Rockefeller."  Well, the President of the United
             States ought to be serving a different master.  And, matter
             of fact, before the United Nations this year, George Bush
             made this statement, he said, "It is to the sacred U.N.
             Charter that we and all people will now and forever pledge
             our allegiance."

             Well, maybe that's good for him and all of his international
             bankers and petroleum buddies and David Rockefeller, but
             there's 250 million of us!  Friends, I want you to know that
             I am absolutely 100% behind gun control and my definition
             is--responsible citizens being able to hit what they aim at
             with the first shot.  (Huge applause.)  Now that's gun
             control and if you have anything less than that, you're
             getting close to unconditional surrender.  But, as long as
             there is 200 million weapons in the hands--and I've got to
             admit, I've got more than my share, so there's some of you
             out there that are probably unarmed--but if there's 200
             million weapons in the hands of 250 million American
             citizens, do you understand why we can get out of debt, if
             we will?  But will we?  (Big round of applause.)

             Now, how long is it gonna take to punch this boy out?  (Bo
             is referring to minting the giant coin)  Not very long.  Pot
             metal is real easy to form into a coin and it doesn't have
             to be really in beautiful condition.

             Oh, by the way, what happens to the Emir of Kuwait?  The
             Emir of Kuwait owns 8 billion dollars of America's debt.
             Now, the media said, "What are you going to do about him?
             Are you going to cheat him?"  I said, "We're not cheating
             anybody.  This stuff right here is worthless and so this pot
             metal coin, I know that it would be worthless, but for the
             Emir of Kuwait, it is 4 trillion dollars on its face value.
             Let the Emir of Kuwait go to the Federal Reserve where he
             bought the debt in the first place and tell them that he
             wants a little piece of their coin."  It should be perfectly
             all right.

             What about the citizens of Americ,a because there aren't
             many but there are some who own a little bit of the American
             debt?  Friends, we created this government.  Those citizens
             are going to be paid.  We're going back on a gold and a
             silver standard so that we don't have a devaluation of
             American currency anymore.  We're going back that way
             because that's what the Constitution says.

-------------Cont in Gritz Speech part 2 ---------------------------------

Don



-- 
<*> Don Allen <*>             1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS
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From cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona Sun Oct  4 07:44:03 PDT 1992
Article: 11519 of alt.activism
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From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Subject: FILE: Bo Gritz speech - 2/4 (LONG)
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 05:26:48 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Oct4.052648.22192@bilver.uucp>
Lines: 747


 -------------Bo Gritz speech part 2 -------------------------------------


             Now, as soon as this coin is given to them, this is going to
             be given with the left hand.  I'm going to do that
             purposefully.  If you have any Islamic knowledge, you'll
             know why.  I'm going to give them this coin with the left
             hand after I've come out of the men's room.  I know it
             sounds tough, but, you know, I get bitter about this.  I'm
             extreme and I'm radical.  When I think of what they've done
             to our posterity and our prosperity, haven't they stolen it
             from us?  So, they deserve whatever they get and a lot more
             besides.  I wasn't even going to give them this coin because
             you don't need to, but, you see, I found out we could and be
             legal, so we are.

             Friends, this doesn't take four years.  This takes one hour
             into the presidency.

             The next thing we do is we tell the Federal Reserve: "You
             are out of business as of this day!  You are history!"
             And now we come to Gephardt, and we're going to say, "Now
             Gephardt, how much interest do we have to pay?"  And how
             much interest do we have to pay?  None!

             Just like "Old Hickory".  You see, we're not doing anything
             that's new.  We're going back and we're looking at the
             Wisdom and the Divine Intervention into our Founding Fathers
             and we are doing the things that they have shown us, as
             guided, that if we'll follow, we, too, can be free; we, too,
             can have liberty and prosperity.  And how do we say and
             under what authority do we say that the Federal Reserve is
             history?  Well, I see it in the newspapers.  They say, "Bo
             Gritz cannot do what he says because these matters are to be
             left to Congress."  And everybody knows that they're the
             best that money can buy.

             Friends, I would invite the media to read Article 2, Section
             3 of the Constitution.  It says, "The President will take
             care to insure the Laws are faithfully carried out."  The
             glory of the Constitution is this: it's called Checks and
             Balances.  Haven't we heard that before?  And when the
             Supreme Court won't and when the Congress won't--are you
             telling me the President cannot?  Can the President do what
             the Supreme Court and the Congress will not do as long as it
             is Constitutional?  Most certainly can.  Is there anyone in
             here who says--"No, you can't do that?"  Because, you see,
             very clearly by the Constitution has there ever been an
             amendment to the Constitution that says you can have a
             private industry like the Federal Reserve coining money and
             regulating the value thereof?  There never has been one and
             so that's the authority that we make sure this law is
             squared by and so we get rid of them.

             Now, when we get rid of them, what happens to the income
             tax?  Does the income tax pay for government?  This is very
             important because people are always going, "Bo, how can we
             pay for government?  What happens to all the highways, the
             military?  What happens to all the government programs?"
             Does anyone in here believe that your income tax goes to pay
             for government?  ("No!")  Thank you.  How come the media
             doesn't know that?

             You know the Grace Commission was put together in 1982--I'm
             always going to give you proof, I don't try to pull this
             stuff out of a rabbit's hat--these things come straight from
             law that has already been tested.  The Grace Commission in
             1982 spent 75 million dollars under Ronald Reagan.  Their
             job was to try and streamline government.  In 1984, if
             you've got a library here in Tehachapi or Bakersfield or
             wherever you go, just go in there and tell the librarian,
             "I'd like to see the Grace Commission Report, 1984."  One of
             the findings is very interesting.  It says, "Not one dollar
             of your personal income tax goes to pay for government."
             Where does your income tax go?  It goes to the debt of the
             United States.  And, who is the owner of the debt of the
             United States?  It is the Federal Reserve.  And, who owns
             the Federal Reserve?  Is it owned by American entrepreneurs?
             No, it is not!  And even the bankers should not have a
             nationality, I agree with you, but, THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS
             OWNED PRIMARILY BY EUROPEANS.

             Friends, we fought the War of 1812 to get the Europeans out
             of our pockets.  We fought the Revolutionary War for that
             purpose.  The War Between The States was not over slavery--
             the Europeans were trying to break America apart so that
             they could take us on more easily as separates instead of a
             united states.  They're still after us and they've almost
             got us.  But, you know what's interesting?  It always seems
             like America wakes up just in time.  I pray that this is the
             case.

             One more thing...  What happens to the IRS?  Think about it
             for a minute.  The IRS, they are paid by the Federal
             government.  If you work for the IRS, you get a green check
             and it says, "Treasury of United States".  But, have any of
             you ever paid income tax?  Most of you, probably.  Go and
             look at the check that you write.  Do you write it to the
             Treasury of the United States?  If you do, they send it
             back.  How must you make out your check?  It must be made
             out to the payment of who?  The IRS.  Now, what does the IRS
             do?  They cancel the check, don't they?  What does the
             cancellation say?  Dig out your own checks at home and see
             what is put on the back of the check.  It says, "For deposit
             into any--(what?)--FEDERAL RESERVE BANK AGAINST THE DEBT OF
             THE UNITED STATES."  The IRS is an agent for the Federal
             Reserve.  Friends, they have become a modern day gestapo.
             Now, you may say, "Well, Bo, they're so efficient."  H. Ross
             Perot would have made them even greater so that they could
             better collect funds so that government could pay its bills.
             Just like Lester Thurow says today.

             Do you think it would have been good to have held onto the
             Gestapo after World War II?  How about--let's hold on to the
             KGB, ok?  They're awfuly efficient, aren't they?  You know,
             I have seen with my own eyes a Regional Director, a tax
             collector, an auditor and a publicist from the IRS all admit
             publicly, "We don't know what the laws say.  We only do what
             we're told."  Was that good enough at Nuremburg?  It was
             not.  We said, "We won't let the Nazis get away with it."
             Why do we let the Federal Reserve get away with it?
             And so, the Federal Reserve, friends, must be purged.  And
             so, it will be!  Who appoints the head of the Federal
             Reserve?  Who appoints the head of the IRS?  The President
             does.  And so, can the President also fire them?  Well, you
             see, a Board of the Federal Reserve cannot be fired by one
             President because they're appointed for like thirteen years,
             but, there's not going to be a Federal Reserve for them to
             be the Board of, because those banks are history and the IRS
             is gone, and so, there won't be any need.  We're going to
             start saving some money there!  So, we get rid of them.

             Is there any question about how we get out of debt?  Because
             right now with this system right here, the debt of the
             United States is zero and your children are no longer debt
             slaves and there can no longer be a foreign power to
             foreclose on you.  I hope your learned a little bit about
             money.  (Applause)  How many of you knew you could pay off
             the debt with a single coin?  (Applause)  All right, good,
             so some of us learned something then.  For those of you that
             knew this, I'll try to get into deeper matters.

             NO  "NEW  WORLD  ORDER"

             The next thing that we're going to do, very simply, is--say
             NO to the New World Order.  And, we're going to do a little
             more than that.  I would pull us out of the United Nations
             before I would ever surrender the Sovereignty of our nation
             to the United Nations.

             (Huge round of applause.)

             Who owns the land upon which the United Nations has their
             meetings in New York?  Thank you.  Mr. David Rockefeller
             does.  David Rockefeller can rent that property out as a
             condominium as far as I'm concerned, because, what happened
             to the League of Nations back in 1919?  They gave Woodrow
             Wilson the Nobel Peace Prize for it, but we said "No" and it
             dried up and blew away.  If America was to pull out of the
             U.N. what do you think would happen?  I think it would dry
             up and blow away and do you think the world would be any
             less off for it?  I'll tell you one thing--we've got no
             business at all in Iraq and you're going to see us returning
             there.  We've got no business at all over in Yugoslavia.
             Thirty Nazi divisions could not disarm those Croatians and
             Serbs and so we definitely should not be involved in there.
             And if you want to cut the head off Saddam Hussein, we're
             going to let the Arabs do it.  I wouldn't send a single
             American soldier anywhere outside these borders. (Applause.)
             For those of you who have worn a uniform, welcome home.

             (Huge applause.)

             We know the price of liberty.  There's something worth
             fighting for, is there not?  There's something worth
             bleeding for; there's something worth dying for.  Everything
             I know of is within the boundaries of the United States of
             America and so, let us guard our borders.  We've got a
             million illegal immigrants that swarm in here every year.
             Very frankly, I think that America should open its doors to
             anyone who would want to properly immigrate into this
             country and the Congress sets those standards and so if you
             want to wait in line and fill out the paper work, then I
             think we should open our arms.  My family came from Germany
             and unless you're an American Indian, you're not native to
             this land.  America is an immigrant nation, but we need to
             stop being the world policeman, friends.  And along with
             that goes all foreign aid.  We're not going to give anymore
             foreign aid until America is healed.  (Applause.)  Now if
             you want to give money to some foreign country, does that
             mean that you can't do it?  No.  You can give all the money
             you want to any foreign country you want as long as it's
             your personal money, but not the public money because that's
             against the Constitution of the United States.

             WAR  ON  AIDS

             We're going to follow the Constitution.  We're going to win
             this war on AIDS.  We have to.  The World Health
             Organization has properly announced, and I don't think they
             know the half of it, that there will be ten times more
             incidents of AIDS in America within the next several years.
             They say by the year 2000, we will be spending a trillion,
             think about it, a trillion and a half dollars.  That is one
             thousand billion, five hundred more billion, on just taking
             care of AIDS patients in hospitals by the year 2000.  What
             happens to Bill Clinton's national health care plan then?
             Hey friends, let me tell you, do slaves have health care
             plans?  They most certainly do.  If the master wants a slave
             to be productive, the master's got to make sure the slave
             can work.  So you're going to have your national health care
             plan under the New World Order.

             But you know what's going to go in my plan?  And here's the
             solution to winning the war on AIDS.  The first thing we do-
             -let me relate it to something that maybe all of you know a
             little something about and where I live in Sandy Valley, we
             have our own septic system.  Every now and then it clogs up.
             When it clogs up I do not get a little straw and try to blow
             down into the bowl and clear it.  When the septic tank at
             the Gritz house clogs up in Sandy Valley, I call Roto-Rooter
             and Roto-Rooter comes out there and they rout it out so that
             we have a clean flow again.  The reason we do not have clean
             government is because human sediment is blocking the flow of
             clean government.  Kennedy got killed because he left the
             old bureaucracy in place.  Then, when he did fire Allen
             Dulles, it was something they weren't going to permit along
             with about seven other reasons they had.

             We are going--and I know you probably think, "Bo, with your
             military experience, you've got some really neat insignia.
             Something like a screaming eagle or something really
             magnificent".  No.  Our symbol is going to be crossed
             plumber's pals.  Those big jobs with the scoops on the end
             of them.  That's going to be the emblem of the Gritz
             Administration because I'm going to fire--and tell me I
             can't do it--I'm going to fire all 16,000 bureaucrats that
             the President appoints.  Every one of them is gone and we're
             going to need those plumbers pals to suck them out.  But
             what does this mean and how does this relate to AIDS?  Who
             runs the Food and Drug Administration today?  You probably
             have got some pretty interesting answers, but is it not AMA
             doctors?  And don't you think they are bought and paid for
             by the petrochemical people?  So what does this mean when we
             take the plumber's pal into the Food and Drug Administration
             and we rout them out?  We're going to replace those AMA
             doctors with Naturopaths and with Holistic Medicine people
             that know that living better through chemistry is great for
             DuPont, but it doesn't do anything for getting America back
             on her feet.  And so tell me we can't do that?  (Huge
             applause.)  Who appoints the head of the Food and Drug?  The
             President does.  And so were 16,000 bureacrats appointed by
             the President.  Now friends, I don't know 16,000 people, but
             I'll tell you what--I've got a list and we're checking it
             twice and we're making a list of 16,000 and if you know
             anyone who has talent, if you can balance a checkbook,
             friends, you are more qualified to be serving in Washington,
             District of Criminals than those that are there now.  And if
             you are a grandparent, you've got the two best reasons in
             the world to do it right.

             I love it when they criticize me because the media in Idaho
             wrote a real nasty news article, very cynical.  It said, "Bo
             Gritz says he's going to take Capital Hill with 16,000
             grandmothers".  They better get ready.  I have a feeling
             that those AMA doctors are going to report back and say,
             "Boy, my backside still hurts.  Some old grandma came in
             with one of these plumber's pals and routed me out and has
             got my desk right now and we're curing AIDS by using things
             that have been available through this earth since this earth
             has been here".  And the reason you don't have those things
             today is because there's no profit in them.

             You see, one of the documents that I have here is the
             Solicitation for Charitable Purposes card.  It's for the
             National Cancer Research Center.  Out of every dollar how
             much do you suppose goes to cancer research?  Hold up your
             hand if you think 50%, 25%, 5%?  See, there's an optimist
             back there.  Let me cut right to the chase.  The National
             Cancer Research Center, do they have any other purpose?
             National-Cancer-Research-Center!  Boy, that's got to be the
             hub of all the solutions, right?  Well, let me just run down
             the facts for you.  A full 57% of the proceeds collected go
             to the Watson Huey Company.  They are the publicists.  Then
             32% goes to the buying of all the advertising and all of the
             advertisers and their budgets and then you have the
             administrators.  They get 7%.  When it's all added up on the
             Solicitation for Charitable Purposes card, it's very clear--
             .54 of 1%, that's a half a penny out of every dollar goes to
             cancer research.

             What do you think would happen to a young laboratory
             technician who might suddenly discover a cheap effective
             cure for cancer?  Do you think it would immediately be
             announced by the National Cancer Research Center?  I don't
             think so because that multi-multi-billion dollar collection
             industry would collapse, would it not?  Lorraine Day is
             going to be the Surgeon General in this administration.
             Laraine Day told me the other day that the head of cancer
             research is now head of AIDS research because there's more
             money to be made in AIDS than there is in cancer.

             Now how do we win this war?  One is we get rid of the Food
             and Drug Administration bought-and-paid-for bureaucrats, the
             profiteers and we replace them with knowledgeable
             experience--not voodoo people because that's what you're
             going to be called--but real people and ones knowledgeable
             of the therapies.  What about oxygen?  Oxygen is really hard
             to get a hold of isn't it?  Oxygen doesn't cost very much,
             does it?  Los Angeles has four ozone generators, but they
             don't have the most.  In Moscow they have the largest ozone
             generator in the world.  What do these things do?  They
             purify all of the water.  How do they do it?  You tell me if
             I'm wrong.  Not one virus, not one fungus, not one bacteria
             can live in an oxygen-intensive environment.  Is that true
             or false?  It's true.  Gosh, if that's true and you can do
             anything you want to do to the waters of Moscow--and they
             probably do in L.A.--and it purifies it, are you telling me
             we can't use oxygen therapy to win the war against AIDS?
             Isn't AIDS a virus?  And is that the only one of the
             solutions that you can think of?  Friends, there are at
             least three or four that I have personal knowledge of and
             I'm not an expert in this.

             JOIN  BO'S  WINNING  TEAM

             If you know people, we need to know who they are.  We've got
             one group that does nothing but sort out all these
             recommendations.  I've got to have 16,000 people because
             when I fire--some of you are going to put yourselves out of
             business.  We're going to completely get rid of the
             Education Department and so Phil Lindstrom is going to be
             head of the Education Department.  He runs the Christian
             Liberty Academy of West Chicago.  He sends out a lot of the
             books that people use for home schooling.  He knows about
             what education should be, and his job--get rid of his whole
             department.  And so he will.  And when you're invited in,
             you see if you're there for your grandchildren and for their
             children and for your own children.  You'll do it right
             won't you?

             I'm not saying I'm not going to have any young lawyers.  I
             can see a lot of you right now getting worried about the
             lawyers.  Don't worry about the lawyers.  Lorraine Day said
             the lawyers are already being hired by the laboratories
             because there's more lawyers today than there are rats.  She
             also said that the laboratory technicians don't become
             attached to the lawyers the way they do with the rats once
             the rats are kept around the laboratory for quite a while,
             and there are some things she said that a rat will just not
             do and so lawyers will always have jobs, fear not for them.
             And you're worried aren't you, about the IRS people.  What
             are they going to do?  They're going to be offered an
             opportunity to fill sand bags because do you think these
             international bankers, when they go back to Europe, it's
             simple to get rid of them isn't it?  It's real simple.
             Here's the Constitution and here's their coin.  Now they're
             history.  But is it going to be easy?  They go back to
             Europe and don't you think Europe is going to embargo
             America?  Don't you think the media is going to rain all
             over us?  It may not be easy, but is it going to be worth
             it?  And what is your alternative?  Thank you.  Slavery, in
             one word.


             ASK  FOR  GOD'S  HELP

             Now I just mentioned a few things to you and you've been
             very patient.  I'm talking about your posterity, so your
             posteriors, I know, weigh in on this issue.  You've been
             very kind and gracious, you've come from different places
             and maybe even different states here and I would hope that
             you would have learned something.  As you travel back to
             your homes would you do me and my brothers a service?  Would
             you call upon God in your own way, would you do whatever you
             think that God would have you do that he might honor your
             petition?  Do you believe that God, if he would, could reach
             down and deliver our prisoners and restore them while they
             are still alive?  Do you believe that He could?  I believe
             He can.

             Now we don't know what God's agenda is.  We never know.  You
             see, I would love for America to stand against a world
             raging against itself, but will we?  Let's say they take
             this sacred Constitution document.  To me it is a sacred
             document.  You see, I took an oath to this document.  It was
             to defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic.  How
             many of you took that oath?  It didn't go away did it?  Was
             there anything in the oath that said that you only have to
             do that as long as you're in uniform or wear a badge or in
             office or draw a green check?  There was nothing like that
             in there, was it?  "I promise to bear true faith and
             allegiance to the United States of America".  I have given
             this oath so many times I can even remember it.  I know it
             by heart.  "And to defend the Constitution of the United
             States against all enemies, foreign and domestic".  I want
             you to remember your oath.

             Now, if they take this document and they shred it and let's
             say that they pulp it and let's say they burn it and let's
             say that they throw it into the Potomac River, does that
             make any difference?  Does that mean that the Constitution
             is dead?  Where does the Constitution live?  Thank you.  The
             Constitution lives right here (in the heart).  It is a
             LIVING document.  It was inspired by God, it was gained by
             blood and by courage and by sacrifice.  It lives within us.
             As a matter of fact, I was on a radio program in Washington
             this last week and their big problem is whether or not to
             move the RFK Stadium from Washington D.C. to Alexandria VA
             and I said, "Do you mind if I give you my solution?  I would
             take this whole capital, as President of the United States,
             and I would lift it up out of the muck that it is now stuck
             in and I would move it clear out to another area.  And I
             would have everybody here, stay here, that's here right
             now."  And I said, "We'd have clean government for a while."

             And about every 50 years I'd call a period of jubilation
             just like they had in the Bible and we'd move it so all
             those political action committee (PAC) people would have to
             stay there and we'd continue to have clean government.  I
             think we're going to have perfect government.  It's not
             going to be under Bo Gritz, it's certainly not going to be
             under the New World Order.  A lady in Denver two days ago
             asked me, "Bo, why are you fighting this New World Order?
             Isn't this the thing that God wants us to have?  Isn't this
             a thing that he has given us where we will have a single,
             global government?  There will be peace and prosperity.
             We'll all be working together as John Lennon said--'wouldn't
             it be wonderful'"  And I said, "Ma'am, we're going to have
             perfect government, but it's not under David Rockefeller and
             it's not under The New World Order".

             BIBLICAL  PROPHECIES

             When I read, friends, in Revelation and I read in Daniel, it
             tells me about what's happening.  You are living in three-
             dimensional periods that we've been reading about in two
             dimensions for generations.  Tell me, how many heads did the
             beast have that Daniel saw crawl out of the ocean that
             represented a global government?  Seven heads.  And what do
             the nations and leaders of the world call themselves today?
             The G what?  The G7.  And wasn't one of those heads severely
             wounded and to the awe of all who beheld it, wasn't it
             miraculously healed?  And what happened when the wall went
             down between East and West Germany?  Weren't we in awe?  I
             tell you they didn't show it on CNN.  It wasn't shown by the
             star gazers that all this was going to happen.  We were in
             awe, weren't we, as we watched that occur?  Wasn't that a
             healing of one of the G7?  I'm excited about it.

             I'm going to show you one more thing before I step down from
             here.  And that is about a year ago, a little over a year
             ago now, I was in Idaho Falls and the person there was a
             computer consultant who worked in Brussels for the Economic
             Community of Europe and he was correcting me.  We had a
             luncheon before the talk and this was before I was running
             for President, so it was over a year ago.  And he sat down
             and he said.  "Bo, I want you to be accurate".  I had used
             the material out of Mary Rolfy's book.  She's a Christian
             writer.  She said that we were using infrared laser tattoos
             to mark animals and she was hypothesizing that we would use
             this infrared laser to mark people.  And he said, "Bo, that
             isn't the way it's going to go.  I know.  I was one who
             helped set up the EAN System--European Article Numbering
             System".  We call it the Bar Code here in America.  Doesn't
             it mark almost everything?  Doesn't it?  Can you even buy a
             Bible without having to look in the box it comes in; and
             there's the mark.  Well, you look at one of my books.  You
             won't find a mark on it.

             I'm hard headed. I got shot in the back of the head in
             Vietnam, the bullet bounced off.  I haven't checked all of
             my anatomy; I don't know if I'm 100% bullet proof, but I am
             hard-headed and I think that's going to be beneficial if we
             win this presidential election.  Now, he said, "Bo, we're
             going to use a micro chip.  It's smaller than a grain of
             rice".  I've got one of them in here.  (He held up a plastic
             case with the little microchip module inside, the size of a
             small grain of rice.)  I'll pass it around to you, you can
             take a look at it and I hope you'll have the forethought and
             the time to come to reject it.  Now this micro chip is
             fairly exciting.  It is smaller than a grain of rice; it's
             encapsulated in a tiny membrane that is nontoxic.  He said,
             "If we were to mark an infant upon birth with an infrared
             laser tattoo, as that child matured, you see, it would
             distort the mark."  He said, "We're going to use this
             microchip."

             This was over a year ago and he described what I'm holding
             in my hand right now except that we really didn't have it
             available at that time.  And then in November, L.A. said
             that they were passing a law that would make it mandatory,
             they were going to mark pets because they wanted pet owners
             to be more responsible.  Then in July of this year in Fort
             Lauderdale, they just picked up the same thing.  It's gone
             all the way across America now from November the 12th in LA
             where it started, all the way to Fort Lauderdale in July of
             this year.  Everybody's using this mark now to mark animals.

             I've got a video tape.  See, my arms aren't long enough to
             get around all these facts so I depend on you.  I got a
             video tape just the other day sent to me--the person said it
             was coming.  Last night I stuck it into the video and there
             it was on Discovery channel where they are now offering
             these things on a voluntary basis to mark children so that
             they cannot be kidnapped or you can find them or the babies
             won't be exchanged on you in the hospital.  Isn't that
             exciting?  They're also beginning to use this--the yuppies
             back East think this is real clever to have their credit
             card information put into this mark so it can be inserted
             under the hand, so all they have to do is walk into the
             store and say, "Darling, scan my hand with your wand".
             That's all they've got to do.  These things are exciting to
             me.  How come?  This is the precursor to "perfect"
             government, friends.  We're going to have "perfect"
             government in the near term, and the mark of the beast, if
             you remember your biblical predictions.

             Now, let me say I'm not a prophet, but I did make some
             predictions.  I predicted the very day that H. Ross Perot
             would go belly up.  If you get my newsletter, three months
             before it happened you saw me saying during the Democratic
             Convention, "You won't see H. Ross Perot anymore.  He's
             gonna cash in".  Knowing the beast allows you to generally
             be able to tell what the beast's habits are going to be.  I
             think you're going to see something--how many of you are
             from California here?  I think you're going to see something
             catastrophic in California before the elections.

             FEDERAL  ENSLAVEMENT  MANAGEMENT  AGENCY

             The reason is because FEMA (Federal Emergency Management
             Agency) is gearing up.  I don't know exactly what the event
             will be, but I would venture a couple of entries.  First of
             all we have treaties.  When I worked for the Hughes air
             crash company as a cover in Los Angeles, we had Malibu and
             Santa Barbara as the skunk works and they developed a thing
             called Gemstone.  Anybody aware of the Gemstone technology?
             Gemstone is outer space particle laser technology and more
             advanced systems and that was back in 1979/1980 when I was
             playing secret squirrel for the government.  They already
             had these things developed and they were being put in orbit.
             Now the Soviet has appeared to have gone belly up so we now
             have all of their technology, do we not?  And as a treaty
             basis we agreed with the Soviets that we would not cause any
             earthquakes.  We would not cause any radical weather
             patterns.  We would not attack any crops with weather
             systems or cause any phenomena with the earth or its
             atmosphere.  If we made treaties to that, doesn't that tell
             you that we do indeed have the technology?  Friends, George
             Bush is not acting like a man who is just about to be voted
             out of office.  I think maybe he thinks he knows something
             that we don't.

             George Bush, I believe, is going to try to gain some
             popularity by going back in to Iraq, but I don't think it's
             going to work.  I don't think the American people are going
             to be caught up by killing 500,000 Iraqis the way we were in
             January, 1991.  Do you?  But I think he knows something
             else.  I believe that a fully informed jury could have saved
             us from the Rodney King problems.  Unfortunately, the jury
             did what the judge said and that's not what fully informed
             juries are all about.  It's not what Article 3 is all about
             in the Constitution.  And so I believe the L.A. riots were
             just a little entr‚, just a precursor to greater things.  It
             was a dress rehearsal for a larger FEMA operation.

             In Phoenix, Arizona, there are Black Hawk helicopters flying
             down beneath the buildings.  The people are told on
             television, "Don't get excited.  This is just U.S. military
             forces practicing and training in these FEMA operations."
             How come they're doing this in Phoenix, do you think?  How
             come they're doing this in Nevada?  Friends, I believe that
             you, in California, are going to be in an experiment, and I
             don't know what kind it will be, but I think that George
             Bush has it geared up before the election.  If I were you I
             would be prepared.

             There are only three kinds of people those who have their
             heads up high and can see what's going on, those who are
             waiting for something to happen you won't be
             disappointed and those who wonder what happened after it's
             already occurred.  You make sure that you've got yourself a
             72-hour pack.  Right now in my closet, in my home, I've got
             my rucksacks that I've worn in Laos and Yemen and Bangladesh
             and Burma it's all set.  I just pick it up.  It's got
             everything I need to live for just about as long as I need
             to be outside of civilization.  You better have yourself a
             72-hour pack.  You better save yourself some food.  My wife
             and I were in Washington, D.C. in February, 1979.  There's
             going to be an efficiency spike that people won't be able to
             figure out for a long time.  There was a blizzard for three
             days in Washington, District of Criminals.  We could not get
             out of the hotel.  Our car was completely covered with
             snow everything!  Can you imagine these high appointed
             officials could not get into their offices!  How did the
             world continue to orbit?  This is amazing!  That's why
             there's going to be an efficiency spike because everybody
             else around the world just kept on working without
             Washington's interference.  Three days friends, people were
             panicking.  The hotel didn't have any food, the 7-11's were
             all out of food.

             What happens when you have a considerable earthquake.  Could
             it be possible I want you to think about it let's say the
             Soviet Union and America, using the technology that we have
             already made treaties for, that we "won't" use.  Do you
             believe those treaties?  Has Russia ever kept a treaty it
             made?  One thousand of them.  Have they ever kept them?
             They never had.  Well, have we?  So do you think that
             maybe I don't want you to become victims.  I'm not trying to
             be Henny Penny, but literally, the sky could come tumbling
             in on you.

             But I believe California, because of your special
             situation you've got 30 million people here, folks.  If
             something catastrophic happens here, now, what happens to
             the population without food, communications,
             hospitalization?  You're going to start moving toward
             Arizona, Nevada, Oregon?  All of a sudden the Federal forces
             are going to have to come out and that could mean almost
             anything, couldn't it?

             Newt Gingrich, I saw his face along with Phil Gramm today as
             we left.  It was a sour note to leave my home on.  They are
             both going to be key-note speakers at the Republican
             Convention.  Newt Gingrich and Phil Gramm, both conservative
             Republicans, were the ones that tried to sponsor a 5-year
             declaration of a national emergency.  It would have taken
             away your Constitution and your Bill of Rights.  Would
             anything have been left after 5 years?  Those are the people
             that are closest to the President.  Be ready, be prepared.
             Otherwise, they'll just pour concrete in around your ears,
             will use your backsides for bicycle racks or something
             useful.  That's what's going to happen to most people, is it
             not?  If they ever take down the Stars and Stripes what are
             you going to do?  Are you going to be let's determine first
             of all are you going to be lawful if you defend your rights
             under the Constitution?  In 1954 the U.S.
             Senate found in its review that the U.N. Charter is the
             supreme law of the land.  Friends, does it make a damn what
             the U.S. Senate finds?  It sure doesn't to me.  Does it make
             a hoot what the Supreme Court says?  It sure doesn't to me.

             This document right here (holds up Constitution) says this
             is the Supreme Law of the land.  So am I lawful if I defend
             my rights under it?  I most certainly am.  So now no matter
             what they do in Washington D.C., if it ever reached a time
             when they say..."Well, we're taking down the Stars and
             Stripes..." then I have a substitute for you.  It's nothing
             original.  We have used it before.  Could I ask my bride to
             come up here and maybe just spread this out (yellow flag).
             When they take our Stars and Stripes down, let's fly this
             one.  It just simply says "DON'T TREAD ON ME" because
             Americans all over this nation are going to go on living in
             spite of government.

             What I have been prepared to do more than anything else my
             entire adult life is wreck trains.  I regard one of George
             Bush's lights at the end of the tunnel as a freight train.
             It is labeled the New World Order and I am going to derail
             it I will derail it as a President with 16,000 of you.
             Friends, I will derail it as a patriot with all that will
             follow, but I am not going to surrender my birthright.  I
             know something you see, Jimmy the Greek wouldn't have given
             George Washington any odds at all would he in the Las Vegas
             sports book about being able to win over King George.  What
             would Jimmy the Greek have  said if they were matching up
             David and Goliath.  Jimmy the Greek would have laughed,
             wouldn't he?  But in every case they won, they won because
             they were fighting for something that was right.

             Are we willing to fight if need be for what is right?  The
             very first step, we take Capital Hill, we do it in November,
             we do it with ballots.  Don't you let Jimmy the Greek enter
             your equation.  You do what you can do.  You do all that you
             can do.  You be a Willy Brown and then you let God do for us
             what we cannot do for ourselves because if Perot won the
             election wouldn't it be to the glory of the hundred million
             or whatever it took and if Bush wins the election, or
             Clinton the glory of their great party.  Friends, when we
             win this election it is going to be to the glory of only One
             Thing and what is that in one word?  Thank you!  It is going
             to be to the glory of God (applause).  And in Second
             Chronicles, Chapter 7, Verse 14, we are given our promise.
             If we, who are His children, will call His name, if we will
             recognize our dependency upon Him, if we are willing to
             change some of our ways, then He'll hear our voice and He'll
             heal our land.

             I'm a school teacher when I can be.  I taught a class in
             Government two weeks ago in "Lost Wages" (otherwise known as
             Las Vegas) at Clark High School.  I broke the Supreme
             Court's latest edict and I was happy to do so.  I'd like for
             you to tell me how we can teach Government?  Because you
             know how I broke it?  I broke it in the first minute I was
             in the class and all the teachers that aren't teaching
             themselves anytime I teach, for some reason they come in and
             sit down at the back of the classroom and they bring their
             notebook and pencil and I have had teachers come up and say,
             "Bo, could we use some of those questions on our exams?"
             And I say, "What are you teaching?  "Because you know the
             first question I ask?  This is where I broke the Supreme
             Courts edict, the latest edict.  I said to the students,
             "Where do we get our rights from?"  And what did they say to
             me?  They don't know and I tell them, "This is not a
             rhetorical question!  I want answers!"  Then I start right
             down to the front row and I start writing them and they give
             me 15, 16 choices.  None of them are right.  Finally, I go
             to the Declaration of Independence and I say to someone I
             believe might be able to read it's not easy to find them in
             high school, not even in Senior's Government and I
             say..."Would you kindly read that right there?"  And the
             student says, "The Creator?"  It's always a question.  Then
             I said, "Who is the Creator?!"  And about five stout hearts
             said, "God?"  That is in absolute violation of the Supreme
             Court!  The Supreme Court has just ruled you cannot say the
             name of God in any of our schools!  How are we going to
             teach Government?  How are we ever going to explain where
             our rights come from if we're not allowed to use the word
             and the name of God?

             Well I'll tell you what, I don't know about you, but if I
             have to stand alone, I'm going to be in good hands and I've
             read The Book and I'm not talking about my book either.
             I've read The Book and I know who wins in the end.  You know
             what makes The Book exciting?  It doesn't tell us exactly
             how we win.  It just assures us that we do, and so I'm
             excited because I'm a soldier.  I can smell the battle and
             it smells good to me because it means that we are just one
             major step from having perfect government, and I am so
             pleased to be on this earth at this time and not born in the
             "Dark Ages" when nothing much other than a good inquisition
             or two was going on.


 ----------Cont in Bo Gritz speech part 3----------------------------------

Don


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From cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona Sun Oct  4 07:44:10 PDT 1992
Article: 11520 of alt.activism
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From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Subject: FILE: Bo Gritz speech - 3/4 (LONG)
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 05:28:50 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Oct4.052850.22322@bilver.uucp>
Lines: 758

----------Bo Gritz speech part 3-----------------------------------------


             So I invite you: is there a better cause than the liberty of
             America today?  If there is, let me know.  I want to join
             you, but if there isn't a better cause then I invite you to
             join us, the United States, as we prepare for a second
             American Revolution.  A Revolution which we cannot afford to
             lose; a Revolution that we'll win even though it may not be
             under the Stars and Stripes.  We'll win it as brothers and
             sisters.  That, I'll always give you as my promise.  I am
             your brother and when I sign my books I sign them "forever
             your brother" and I mean it.

             We come from a great family and we're going home.  They can
             never take that home away from us and it's for me to do all
             the things that I have to do to endure until that time
             comes.  So I invite you.

             Take heart, feel excited and if you're in California, get
             your 72-hour pack put together.  If you're interested in a
             lot of very, I think, amazing things well, I only brought 10
             copies of A Nation Betrayed  tapes if  you're interested in
             how to we've got some video cameras, with those you can take
             the presentation if there's anything there.  We have a
             short it's about a 30 minute presentation.  If you want the
             book Called To Serve.  It's too long.  It's 845 pages.  I
             put 165 pages worth of pictures in there just for the
             Marines so they would have something to look at if they were
             having trouble reading the text.  (Roar of laughter)  In the
             back I've got a few blank pages for the Navy and we'll give
             you a free crayola so that you can draw there in the back a
             little bit.  (More laughter)  Otherwise, if you want to know
             in detail why I'm willing to get into the arena and wrestle
             with the hogs, read Called To Serve.  When you get to the
             end of it you'll see my point.

             You, too, are called to serve.  We didn't win a raffle to be
             here today.  Every one of us has that "something" we can do.
             We can't do everything.  What we can't do for ourselves,
             that's where the glory of Almighty God comes in.  So I'll
             leave you with that and we're out of debt; we're out of time
             here.  I'd like to stay here and talk to you as long as
             you're willing.  You do live in a beautiful valley.  Let me
             tell youlast thing I'll say.  As a guerrilla fighter I know
             this, the mountains are the palm of God's hand.  That is the
             truth.  As long as you reside within the mountains, you
             will, I believe, be in a much safer place than you could be
             otherwise.  And so you're going to find me in the mountains.

             As a matter of fact, I think that's probably where we ought
             to move the White House.  We don't have to move the
             Congress.  We don't even need the White House.  I think
             we'll just move the seat of government.  It might be a lot
             easier, but get your plumber's pals ready.  I need you
             volunteers.  If you can balance a checkbook, if you're a
             grandparent, doesn't mean that you don't have a job if
             you're a young lawyer, but in all truth, one
             word TOGETHER that's the way that we preserve this nation
             for the ones who are with us that are smaller than we are.
             God bless each one of you.  Don't forget to pray for our
             prisoners of war.

             (LONG  ROAR  OF  APPLAUSE)

             QUESTIONS  AND  ANSWERS

             Bo Asked Lady In Audience:  Do you ride a Harley Davidson,
             or are you just wearing that head band?
             You see, my wife got me a belt buckle.  It was a Harley
             Davidson.  I said, "I can't wear this belt buckle.
             Somebody's going to ask me if I actually got the
             motorcycle."  I was in Bangladesh and I called to check  and
             my wife said, "If you could have just one thing in the whole
             world, what would it be?"  I think she thought I was going
             to say, "Just to come home to you, my darling."  And while I
             was actually thinking that, you see, my warped sense of
             humor said, "You mean other than a Harley?"  So when I got
             home she had a Harley Davidson.  So we actually got the
             motor bike.  Now I can actually wear the belt buckle.  I'm
             here to answer questions now so....You're first in line.
             Let's go right down the line.

             Question:  What about the Federal Reserve and what has our
             government put up as collateral?

             Bo:  The government hasn't directly put up collateral, but,
             indirectly, if you'll notice somethingthe Declaration of
             Interdependence that was signed says that they're calling
             for an establishment of a New World Order and it says,
             "America's resources are global resources."  Alaska, today,
             is owned 90% by the government and Nevada is owned 80% by
             the government.  Washington, Oregon, I mean all states
             mostly are.  And it isn't something that is just static.  It
             is more and more every year there is less and less State
             land.  So, what has actually been ransomed is this: once the
             American people are hoodwinked into thinking that the U.N.
             Charter is the supreme law, once they have taken our
             Constitution away from us, the next thing is, they say,
             "Well, you see, we are so deeply in debt that like other
             nations, Brazil for example, our resources now become global
             resources."  And the States cannot object, because the
             States do not own the lands.

             Most of the land that is worth anything is owned by Uncle
             Sam.  So, as the President, I am going to turn back all of
             the lands, minus those under The Constitution that were
             authorized for military bases for the common defense, but,
             all other lands immediately go back to the States.  The
             States will look after the Snail Darter, the Desert Tortoise
             and the Spotted Owl much better than the politicians in
             Washington, DC will, and so, that will be the first act that
             I'm going to do rip up the Executive Orders that make the
             President a tyrant.  Can I do that?  Yes, because the
             President has signed them all, and so, a President can just
             rip them up.  Ronald Reagan tore up the Executive Order from
             Kennedy (when he started printing United States Notes), and
             so, if Ronald Reagan can do that then I'm very well
             qualified to take that piece of paper and tear up all those
             Executive Orders that say that all of you are going to be
             under government control, under Executive Order 11000,
             during a National Emergency, that the Postmaster  General is
             empowered to register all of you.  I think that's where your
             little mark comes in, and on and on and on and on.
             I think you're going to get a chance in California to see
             FEMA up close and if you don't like it, then by November,
             friends, you'd better be prepared to change government so
             that we can go back under The Constitution.

             Question:  What was that about Oregon?

             Bo:  Well, Oregon is owned about...  You see, they have the
             Douglas Fir up there wonderful commodity, wood.  Oh boy, the
             foreign countries are going to love to get that when the
             global resources crooks come to collect on Oregon.

             Question:  What about women's right to abortion?

             Bo:  Here's what I'm going to do it's not how I feel because
             as an individual it doesn't make much difference and as a
             president, it shouldn't even though, of course, it does
             more.  Here's how I feel, here's what I'm going to do, I'm
             going to propose an Amendment to The Constitution that is
             called a Human Right To Life Amendment.

             Now, here's why I'm doing it.  I am sick up to here seeing
             the media tell us what our beliefs are.  I'm sicker up to
             here with the Supreme Court making Law.  That's not what the
             Supreme Court is there for, and so, under the Constitution,
             if three-fourths of the States because that's the only way
             we'll ever know what the American people feel like.  Put it
             in the hands of the States if three-fourths of the States
             ratify a Human Right To Life Amendment, the question is
             over.  All of a sudden, the special interest groups can pack
             up and go back home, the media can do all of the squawking
             they want to, but, America should determine not a President
             and not any one little clique what our morality base is.

             Personally, I am against abortions of convenience.  And, as
             a President, I will veto any kind of money that comes from
             Congress that would promote public abortions, and, if
             Congress wants to go around me, they can, but, that's my
             personality.

             I will not appoint anyone who has ever been a part of the
             Council on Foreign Relations or Trilateral Commission that's
             16,000 people that won't be working, probably, because most
             of them that are there now are members of those
             organizations.  I will not appoint anyone who does not
             believe in God.  You see, I don't want people serving in the
             government, now this reflects my personality and as a
             President that is what I would do, I don't want anyone
             serving the people in the government who doesn't have to
             look for accountability to a Higher Source.  I have this
             little nagging concern that people who have no greater power
             than themselves might feel like hey, if it feels good, I'm
             going to do itwhich means, I'll get rich now off the people
             and I don't have to account to anybody later because there
             is no God.

             I won't appoint any homosexuals to the 16,000 positions that
             I control or that I know of because I do not support,
             personally this lifestyle.  It is my own personality, this
             is how it comes outinto those 16,000 positions.  I don't
             believe homosexuality is consistent with the Laws of God.
             But, when it comes to abortion, this should be something
             determined by the people and I'm not going to let you get
             out of it and the way that I'm going to make you do that is
             to put an Amendment to The Constitution before you, and
             then, you will decide.  Overall, I believe that God graces
             or condemns nations today according to how moral their laws
             are.

             Friends, right now, the Supreme Court has said, "You cannot
             teach Creationism in the schools.  You cannot have the Ten
             Commandments, you cannot read the Bible, you cannot say the
             word 'God'."  That's all the Supreme Court making law.  It's
             not easy for God to judge this nation when the Supreme Court
             is the problem.  And so, I'm going to take that as a
             President, I can do it I'm going to take it out of the hands
             of the Supreme Court.  We're going to put it in the hands of
             the American people.  If you decide that you want to support
             abortion of convenience, to support alternative lifestyles,
             to support drugs and whatever else, you'll deserve the
             condemnation that comes down on you.

             According to our 1990 census, 92% of the people believe in
             God.  I believe we are a righteous nation.  I think that if
             the people were allowed to determine the laws that we would
             have Grace in this challenging period.  Friends, if we don't
             have it, there's very little chance that we'll be able to
             stand.

             Question:  Do you know about the book Holy Blood, Holy Grail
             and are you a Mason?

             Bo:  The name is so familiar.  It's in paperback.  I've seen
             it and I have looked through it.  Firstly, the
             recommendation is: it's well documented and read it.
             Secondly, Am I a Mason?  I wish that I was a 33rd degree
             Mason.  If I was, I would know all there was to know about
             Masonry, but, I am not.  I'm not even a 1st degree Mason.  I
             have read a lot about Masonry.  As I told you, when I
             started this presentation, the truth to me is very, very
             important and there are just so many things you can do in
             one lifetime.  Besides being a paratrooper and a frogman and
             a ranger and a Special Forces soldier and a pilot and
             speaking Chinese and Swahili and being in all parts of the
             globe, I never had time to be a Mason.  Ultimately, here's
             what I have found out, and see, you never know because I'm
             not one.  If I was one I would share with you the truth.
             As a Mason, I would want to know the truth.  I know a lot of
             32nd degree Masons.  I don't know any 33rds.  The 32nds I
             know seem to be God-fearing Patriots.  A lot of them are
             Sergeant Majors...  My national campaign manager, Charlie
             Brown, an old Navy chief, has got not one drop of political
             blood in his veins, he's a 32nd degree Mason.

             Here's what I fear from what I've studied.  I fear that in
             Europe there are many higher degrees than 33rd.  What I feel
             in Europe is a Godless organization that is Luciferian
             based, and, I fear the worst of it could come back down
             through the channels from Europe into America that said,
             "Look, this New World Order is where it's at.  This is what
             we're for."  I don't think many of the 32nd degree Masons
             that I know would buy it.  I think most of them would say,
             "No, we're not going along with it.  You can take your
             Masonry and your worshipful masters and you can go back into
             the lodge because we're going to keep faith with the United
             States and with God."  But, I believe that Masonry may have,
             at the center of its web, a pure evil.  That's my own
             personal conclusion.  It doesn't mean that it's true.  I
             don't know because I am not one of them.

             Question:  Do you know what the sign language is for a
             politician?

             Bo:  Oh, thank you.  Yes, this is something in any
             politician...  Politician in sign language is [Bo
             demonstrates] Crazy thinking person! I don't want to be a
             politician.  I am not a politician but, you know, we have
             had some miracles.  Here's what happened, for example:
             before last week, we had about 2,500 signatures in the great
             state of Illinois.  We needed 25,000.  So, we said, "Well,
             it doesn't look like we're going to make it in the great
             state of Illinois."  We've got ZERO media.  We are finding a
             lot of opposition wherever we go.  A black minister, by the
             name of Henry Mitchell, suddenly came out of the woodwork.
             Last week, we turned in 57,000 signatures in the state of
             Illinois!  Henry Mitchell is a Baptist, I believe,
             Evangelist; so, he headed out for Ohio.  We qualified in the
             state of Ohio thanks to Henry Mitchell!

             I was trying to catch up with him.  I called him last night,
             he had already left Kentucky.  I am sure we had qualified in
             Kentucky when he left.  Henry Mitchell is like a fire
             brand wherever he goes, he leaves a trail of hot behind him.
             People really get heated up.

             In Alaska, we were just up there, and we turned in more
             ballots or more petitions than were required.  We are on the
             ballot now in about 21 states or more.  We're going to be on
             the ballot in enough states to win this election, and so,
             anytime somebody says, "Well, you just can't do it...." you
             see, just remember that's the same thing that they told the
             heavy bumble bee about not being able to fly and George
             Washington about his odds, and I'm sure they looked at
             biblical David and said, "Don't go, David.  You can't do it.
             Don't go.  That's Goliath up there."

             You see, I don't have a choice.  I've been called to serve.
             It's not the title of my book.  It's the purpose of my life.
             People say, "Well, Bo, do you wear a bullet proof vest?"
             No.  Then they say, "Aren't you afraid for your life?"  No.
             I have a home. I have a family.  You see, when they took my
             2,500 brothers away from me (as POWs) and they started
             executing them and killing them, they didn't know that they
             were putting them on the other side of the veil where they
             could probably help us even more now than they could buried
             in cages back there in Southeast Asia.

             I've got a whole family.  I've got a Family of Patriots that
             goes all the way back to George Washington.  They're helping
             us out, but, we've got to do for ourself all that we can.
             Then when we can't do anymore, that's when God parts the
             veil.  That's when Elisha says, "Look on yonder hill at the
             Angels in chariots of fire."  That's when things happen that
             we don't know how to explain.  I don't even know how
             television works.  How do I explain an Angel in a chariot of
             fire.  But, are they there?

             I tell you, you read my book.  There are places all through
             here where I've mentioned God's name because one time a man
             tried to shoot me in the back out of a spider hole in
             Vietnam twice a sub-machine gun failed to fire.  After I
             went back and secured it, it fired perfectly well on the
             next round.  I sent one bullet to my Mom, I sent one bullet
             to my Grandma, and both of the primers were well dented.  No
             reason at all why that should not have fired.  My whole life
             I've been in times of extreme need, in times of great peril,
             I have knelt down and you see, real soldiers aren't supposed
             to ever pray, but I have never seen a real soldier as a
             atheist.  The people with me in the [battle] arenathey get
             down and we pray.  We hold our hands and we invoke the name
             of God.

             I know it sounds dumb, but, my wife would testify, we were
             coming back from Phoenix on instruments in a storm and I've
             got a thing called a "strike finder", it shows you where all
             the lightning is and there was a great field of lightning
             right in front of us.  We were over the mountains, coming
             back from Kingman; I couldn't go down any lower, I couldn't
             really divert.  My wife says, "What are you going to do?"  I
             said, "I guess we're just going to go straight ahead."  You
             ask her about this because when it was over, she labeled it
             properly.  As we continued ahead, the strike finder starts
             at 200 miles then goes down to 25 miles, there was a huge
             wedge of lightning straight off our nose.  When we got to
             the 25 mile point, the strikes were still there, but that
             lightning moved to my right wing and as we passed through,
             that lightning passed and as we passed through, the
             lightningI swear to God above to youthose strikes moved
             right back around behind the aircraft.  This was a huge
             field of lightning and my wife is a little uneasy up here.

             I got a distinguished flying cross and 26 air medals for
             valor, but my wife is still a little uneasy.  She said, "Do
             you know what that was?"  I said, "What?"  She said, "That
             was the prayers that people offer to keep us in God's hand.
             That's what that was."  It sure wasn't anything to do with
             my flying because I just kept the plane on auto-pilot
             straight ahead and I don't like lightning and you wouldn't
             either if you were up there with me.  My wife puts a pillow
             in front of her face.  I don't know what she thinks that it
             will do, but I guess it takes some of the glare!
             We've had it where the lightning was so intense it would
             light up the propeller.  Oh, it's pretty scary.  You know,
             it's all kinds of green...  She doesn't like that.  I don't
             either!

             Question:  I'm just one guy and I really like what you're
             saying, but, other people don't know about you or what you
             stand for.  What's the best thing that I can do to get the
             message out?

             Bo:  Thank you.  How do we get the message out?  I think the
             way to get it out continue to lean on radio and TV talk
             shows like Larry King Live.  If you call in, for example,
             that's how old Perot got started free of charge.  If you
             call in and say, "Hi, I want to tell your guest what a
             wonderful person he is." and then when you get on there say,
             "By the way, how come you don't have Bo Gritz on because
             he's in more ballots than H. Ross Perot and he's got a plan
             to get America out of debt and to win this war on AIDS and
             how come you don't have him on?"  That will happen about 3
             or 4 times and then the next thing you know, they'll start
             opening up the lines.  They'll try to vilify us.  They'll
             try to make us out to look ridiculous, but again, I go back
             to the Scriptures because it says, "Have no fear when you're
             called before those Scribes and Pharisees, for the words
             will be given to you."

             Well, our message is TRUTH.  You see, that's why it's so
             strong!  We can honestly get out of debt with a single pot
             metal coin.  Now, do you think that the people who own the
             media, the banks, want the word put out to America?  They
             don't!  So, that's why they don't want us on there.  Again,
             it's like ABC, CBS...  If we just keep hitting on them and
             if you'll do it where they have Talk Shows, either
             television or radio, just call in you may have to tell a
             little white lie to get on the air and then lay it on them.
             Say, "I want to hear this fellow.  We need 200 million
             Americans to hear this message.  This is important."
             We were scheduled at BYU and they had National Security
             Advisor Brent Scowcroft they should have kicked him in the
             britches instead of giving him a Ph.D.  Scowcroft went up
             there and told them that The New World Order was going to
             happen.  The Declaration of Interdependence was a U.N.
             mandate.  We weren't going to get a chance to vote on it.
             Then they had Bush come in there and, of course, I was due
             in there on the 28th.  They cancelled us out.  It makes no
             difference.

             September and October, these are our national media target
             months.  That's when the race will be won September,
             October.  If we'd have had all the media back in July and
             August then they may have tailed us off September and
             October.  If what we're meant to do is right and right
             enough, it'll come to us.

             In Command General Staff College, I was the Honor Graduate,
             (I shouldn't have been), I was a Special Forces Officer.
             The reason I was is because on the first day, just listening
             to the enormity, the first announcement they made,  "We have
             358 Ph.Ds."  The whole auditorium erupted into clapping.
             They said, "We have 6 hundred and some odd Masters."  Then,
             they said, "We have three who have not completed their
             University requirements."  Now, I was one and I knew another
             guy, but we never did find the 3rd person.  We were 3 out of
             1,600 and so the first day in class I said, "Boy, I don't
             stand much of a chance here."  So, I drew a little profile
             of a fat man and he was trying to blow a bugle.  He was
             trying so hard that he broke wind and underneath it I said,
             "You can try too hard."  You know, I just set in my mind.  I
             said, "I won't even graduate.  These are the best and the
             brightest."  And do you know, I was the Honor graduate just
             because you put your mind in that groove and you just don't
             try too hard.  If what you're doing is right enough, it'll
             come to you.  You've got to be willing to suit up, but if
             you try too hard you run into this law of reverse effect:
             The harder you try, the further away you get.

             Question:  Are you on the ballot in California?

             Bo:  We're not on the ballot that I know of right now.  Don
             Held is our California representative and I don't see Don
             here, but he would be able to give you an exact update.
             We've got tremendous support.  People have been working
             really hard.  California requires an exorbitant number of
             signatures.  I don't know where we stand right now in
             California.  I'll find out from Don Held, but the America
             Independent Party of California has its convention the 29th
             of August.  [Editor's note:  According to Sandra Shea at
             Bo's National Campaign Headquarters, the American
             Independent Party is on the ballot in California.  The State
             is just waiting for the A.I. Party to name their candidate
             on August 29th.  The A.I. Party decision right now is
             between Howard Phillips of the Taxpayer's Party and Bo
             Gritz.  Hopefully Bo will succeed in California via this
             route.]  There's no reason why we should not be their
             candidate.  I'm the only candidate that has a chance to win
             this election.  We're already on just about enough ballots
             to do so.  Ohio and Illinois were great States for us,
             friends.  They're big and they're populous, they're not as
             big as California, California is the biggest, but if you
             have any influence I forget the guy who runs the American
             Independent Party Bill Shearer Thank you, Lord, it just
             cameBill Shearer runs the American Independent Party.  Now,
             Mertin Short, a Navy pilot out of Oakland, is the chairman,
             but that doesn't mean anything.  Bill Shearer runs the
             Party.  If you have any influence with the American
             Independent Party, we should be there, we should have a
             chance to speak and they should, by a democratic process, if
             they voted I think I will be their candidate.  Wouldn't you
             join the American Independent Party if we could get on the
             ballot here in California?  You bet you would.  Bill Shearer
             needs to know that, because, failing that, I don't know
             where we stand with signatures.  But, that is the best way.

             Question:  How can we reach Bill Shearer?

             Bo:  American Independent Party Mertin Short he's out of
             Oakland, California.  You certainly could call Mertin.  If
             you want, I'll find out the number and give it to E.J.  You
             can get hold of E.J. Ekker and he'll have the number for
             Bill Shearer.  But in all honesty, that is the very best way
             and it's simpleall the delegates have got to do is say,
             "Yes, we want Bo." and you're on the ballot because the
             American Independent Party is ballot qualified.  They ought
             to put me on because I voted for Wallace in 1968.  That made
             me an American Independent, and so, when I moved here to
             California, I was listed as an American Independent when I
             came back from Vietnam.

             Question:  I'm concerned about Bush using those instruments
             of destruction that you mentioned before the breakto cause
             a so-called "natural phenomenon", some kind of catastrophic
             event where we'll have FEMA (Federal Emergency Management
             Agency) control and maybe not an election.

             Bo:  I hate to say it because as a Special Forces soldier, I
             always watch being paranoid.  You see, it doesn't mean that
             there aren't people following you around just because you're
             paranoid.  Maybe you can be paranoid, but there are still
             people who are really there.  You've got to be real about
             this thing.  What is real is this George Bush is not acting
             right.  I think George Bush has got a health problem.  I
             think it's in his thyroid.  Bush became very irritated when
             he yelled at the Prisoner of War families, "You shut up and
             sit down."  That right there should have been a signal, a
             shot around the world.  What he should have been saying was,
             "You always stand up and you sound off when you don't think
             things are right."  That's what a president should say to
             the people.  But when he said what he did, it was just
             another indication that Bush is on the ragged edge.

             Again, I'm not a prophet, but my Spirit tells me that there
             will be a catastrophic event in California and it will be
             before the election and I don't know when, but I would
             guess you see, I'm a strategist so I don't look at it from a
             lot of other angles.  I look at it from a strategy way.  If
             I were the Action Officer to set this thing up, I would set
             it up so that probably somewhere around mid or last of
             September or first of October that something would happen.
             See that gives enough transition period to where the
             election has to be put off because it will be fairly major.
             I don't think they care about the loss of lives.  I really
             don't.  As a matter of fact, Global 2000 has already pretty
             much established that.  I think that could certainly happen
             and, again, I sound like a nut when I say it, but I'm trying
             to be real.  I think it's true and it will most likely be in
             the form of earthquakes.

             If you use these weapons and let's look at Mt. Hood, Mt.
             Shasta, Ft. Lewis at Mt. Rainier, let's look in Alaska.  You
             see, they're already fairly critical masses at work there.
             When you add the things that we've given the Russians, a
             Treaty that says, "We won't..."  Well, now that there isn't
             any more Soviet Union, those Treaties aren't really binding.
             They wouldn't make a difference anyway.  All of a sudden, we
             (I think) can use the consummate energies.  When you put
             both the Soviets and the Americans together with our
             gemstone technology, you can cause quite a "burp" in Mother
             Nature.  You don't have to do too much around the San
             Andreas Fault to make it go.

             Question:  What is FEMA?

             Bo:  FEMA is the Federal Emergency Management Agency or Act.
             It is the thing that makes the President a dictator.  He
             doesn't have to have Congress declare it.  When Gingrich and
             Gramm tried to declare a National Emergency last year, the
             President doesn't really need it, but if he does declare it
             without Congress then he's walking on thin ice.  We've just
             about dug in against Bush.  Going back into Iraq is not
             going to win him the Flag this time, I don't think.

             Question:  What kind of emergency is needed for FEMA to step
             in?

             Bo:  Emergency is never defined.  He literally could declare
             an Emergency it could be on crime, it could be on drugs.
             Yes, it's a very important document and I have just a copy
             that comes in your Document Packet of all the Executive
             Orders, but if he has the actual fleshed out copies, it
             might be worth trying to find out how they can get them from
             you.  That's important.

             Question:  What about the People's Revolution?

             Bo:  We better well be on our way toward a 2nd American
             Revolution.

             There was a really cute couple when I was in Alaska.  They
             were about in their early 30's, a man and his wife and they
             had 2 children.  They're both working for the FBI on the
             Counter-terrorist Division.  They came up to me after my
             talk and said, "Bo, we are with you 100%.  We're told to
             keep you under surveillance to see if we couldn't catch you
             in something that could be used as seditious or treasonous
             because you're talking against THE GOVERNMENT."  THE
             GOVERNMENT, you betcha.  They said, "But after listening to
             you, we've got two children of our own.  We want those
             children to grow up free in a land of Liberty.  We don't
             want this New World Order."

             The little people that are working for the government,
             they're with us all the way.  It's only the major Players.
             It's the Kissingers.  It doesn't take much to jam and block
             government, does it?  That's why we need Roto-rooter to just
             rout them out.  That's why all the CFR, all the Trilateral,
             you know, they just go.  They're human sewage and we just
             rout them out.  When that happens, all of a sudden, we turn
             the money tables over, we start playing by our rules, but
             our rules are the Constitution.  So, what can the Federal
             Prosecutors say?

             Does anybody remember a guy named Col. Gale?  Col. Gale was
             in California.  He had something called The Committee of
             States.  They even wrote a book about it.  They convicted
             him in Las Vegas.  His Committee of States was trying to
             form a Militia under the Articles of Confederation.  Well,
             they got him.  You see, it's simple.  I took my oath,  My
             oath is good enough.  It's called The Constitution.  How are
             they ever going to ever prosecute me?  I've already seen
             what a fully informed jury can do.  They tried to prosecute
             me.  On the films, there's the U.S. Attorney...  Who has
             seen those films where the U.S. Attorney says, "George Bush
             called me up and told me to get Bo Gritz."?  Would you ever
             believe that ever happened?  I mean, you wouldn't believe
             it.  That guy is appointed by the President.  Tell me The
             Holy Ghost is not alive because the Holy Ghost came upon
             that man and without knowing it he said the truth.  When the
             media said, "What happened?"  He said, "George Bush called
             me up and told me to get Bo Gritz." and the newspapers said,
             "You're denying that.  Is that what you're saying?"  They
             couldn't believe it and he said, "No, what I'm saying is
             George Bush called me up and told me to get Bo Gritz."  God
             be praised.

             Question:  How can I get your information packet?

             Bo:  I guess to get the packets of information, you can just
             call me.  You can call me if you're interested in the phone
             number it's this is my home and when I'm not there, we have
             volunteers that are there at the phone, they send it right
             out to you ,702, that's Nevada, 723-5266.  That's my number.
             There's a fax number I love because you people find all
             kinds of interesting stuff and you fax it to me.  It's the
             only way I stay up to speed on this.  The fax number is
             702 and sometimes when the phone's busy, you can send a fax
             and say..."Hey, get off the phone.  I need to talk to
             you..."  702-723-5357 is the fax number.

             Now, have I heard of Rush Limbaugh?  Everybody's heard of
             Rush Limbaugh.  With one half of his brain tied behind him
             he takes on the defenseless people who would call and
             venture any kind of query or question.  Rush doesn't have
             any talent on his show, obviously.  I think in the end, this
             is just me thinking and remember that I've got a funny sense
             of humor in the end I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find
             that Rush Limbaugh was probably a closet pinko Commie, maybe
             even worse.  I think maybe Rush has put on this face of
             supreme conservatism as a gig for his radio show.  I don't
             have that much faith in people in New York, very frankly,
             New York City.  Being that this real conservative, that
             he but here the head of the radio station maybe would be
             able to tell us more truth: do you think Rush Limbaugh just
             came out of the woodwork as this tremendously powerful
             conservative?

             Someone In Audience:  I understand he was financed by the
             Trilateralists.

             Bo:  He's financed by one of the Trilateralists, I wouldn't
             be a bit surprised and then your third question was NRA.
             The NRA is not going to support Bo Gritz because right now
             they think, "Well Bo, he just can't do it."  You see, once
             September and October rolls around, isn't it easy to be a
             Patriot once the flag is already up?  But I'm sure that you
             have a lot of people coming around saying, "Hey George! Good
             job!  P.J., you guys really kicked butt out there!  Great!
             Now we are a nation?  You mean we're no longer beholden to
             King George?  Hey, I'm glad come on down. Remember where we
             used to be with the Tories that drank ale? Well, you guys
             are invited.  The drinks are on us down there..."  It's real
             easy to be a patriot once the battles are fought.  The
             little red hen is at work here, I have a feeling.

             When we do it, because we how many people vote?  How many
             normally?  It's not very many is it?  So do we need more
             than 3% of the voters that are really dedicated and for
             example, where we've missed.  We missed in Colorado.  We
             didn't get enough signatures, but we're write-in in
             Colorado.

             So we're going to have all the volunteers with pencils and
             on the day of the election, they'll be at the polling places
             and they'll give a pencil to the voter that says "Write in
             B-O G-R-I-T-Z."  Abraham Lincoln won the presidency on a
             write-in.

             People say,   "Bo, don't you know that you can't win because
             of the electronic interference?..."  In Cincinnati in 1988,
             my own testimony, I was there as a speaker.  I was in a
             motel room.  They didn't have CNN as I remember, but I
             turned on the news and here was a Federal Judge examining
             two AT&T employees.  They had been ordered by their
             superiors to set-up a line tap on the line used to tabulate
             the election results.  Their testimony was that anyonethey
             just set-up the line tap and then they were told to
             leave anyone could have come in and with a computer, hooked
             into the line and affected, according to their testimony to
             the Judge, affected the results.  Now, I thought..."Gosh!
             This is going to blow up all over America!..."  Can you
             imagine what that would have done to the American voters'
             confidence?  Knowing that AT&T, Ma Bell, was sitting there
             adding zeros or taking zeros away, according to her favorite
             candidate?  Well, I never saw it, but that was on the
             Cincinnati news.  It was in Cincinnati, but I didn't see it
             any place else.

             Here's what will happen.  I'm going to tell you how I am.
             If they do that, if they finally get worried and say, "Put
             Ma Bell in there.  Make sure our boy wins."  When you watch
             that video and you see the U.S. Attorney make his statement,
             why would it be any less that an operator would sit down and
             say, "Well, let's see.  They want me to what?  Add or
             subtract?  Maybe I'm supposed to subtract zeros from these
             guys."  You leave that in the hands of the Lord.  You see,
             in all honesty we do all we can.  We act absolutely
             courageous.  What have we got to be fearful for?  Friends,
             what happens to us if they take us out?  We just go on the
             other side.  My grandma's over there and she is a tigress
             and if she has anything to do with these Angels and chariots
             of fire, we don't have anything to worry about because there
             will be things I'm trying to give you the things I've
             learned in my life.  Be fearless.  It's a paradox.  I used
             to teach all my soldiers:  If you want to live, walk the
             road to death.  It's a paradox, but it works.  You clear
             your mind and you do what you have to do and you let the
             Lord determine whether or not you're going to make it
             through.  Then get ready to meet the Angels because I see
             them all the time.  If you will commit your life to what is
             right with no thought of yourself, you will meet the Angels
             along the way that are there as road guards to make sure you
             zig or you zag or make sure the traffic gets stopped at the
             right time when you're coming through.  It's pretty
             exciting.  Yes sir.

             Question:  What was that, again, about not needing the
             Income Tax to run the government?

             Bo:  The Fed.  Let's just take the statistics.  Now the best
             statistics are thethe latest ones we have are in a volume.
             It's a white book, it has blue lettering.  It's called The
             1991 Statistical Abstract for the United States.  It's in
             the library, I get it in the bookstore.  I had to take a
             course in statistics in getting my Masters one time.  It's
             about this thick and it's just rich with all kinds of stuff.
             It tells you how many Christians we have, how many people
             believe in God, and all of these other things.  It says in
             there that in 1991, the last time they got statistics, that
             $400 billion was the amount collected in personal income
             tax.  Now what is the interest to the Federal Reserve?  It's
             coming up to $400 billion.  All of the rest of the money
             comes from Constitutional means tariffs, duties, imposts,
             excise.  You see, those are all legal ways to raise revenue.
             The Communist Manifesto's second plank calls for income tax.
             We didn't have it before 1913.  We paid for government quite
             well.  For over 120 years we paid for government, didn't we?
             Never had it.  The only time that we ever had to have income
             tax was when we had the private banks doing all that I told
             you about.  Then we had to have some way of paying them and
             so that's where income tax comes in, but we don't need it.
             So we get rid of the Federal Reserve, we don't need income
             tax.  Yes sir.

------Cont in Bo Gritz speech part 4------------------------------------

Don


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From cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona Sun Oct  4 07:44:37 PDT 1992
Article: 11521 of alt.activism
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From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Subject: FILE: Bo Gritz speech - 4/4 (LONG)
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 05:30:40 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Oct4.053040.22455@bilver.uucp>
Lines: 590

----------Bo Gritz speech part 4-----------------------------------------


             Question:  What about a ticket of Howard Phillips and Bo
             Gritz?

             Bo:  Yes.  Thank you.  Howard Phillips and Bo Gritz.  Howard
             Phillips called Jerry Gillespie, my national campaign
             coordinator.  He said, "Bo, I'd like to meet you in
             Washington, D.C."  This was just this last week.  I met with
             Howard Phillips.  Howard Phillips and I sat down at the
             University Club where he is a member and he said, "Bo, we
             need to see if we can come to terms."  I said, "I agree with
             you, Howard."  Because his planks and my planks to the
             platform are just about the same.  He doesn't see the
             urgency that I do.  Howard has said publicly, "I don't think
             I can win the election.  I don't intend to win, but I'm
             building a party for the year 2000."  By the year 2000 he
             wants to have a viable political party called the U.S.
             Taxpayer Party.  It's a terrible name.  They ought to name
             it Constitution Party or something, but we shouldn't be
             paying taxes, not the income taxes.  Anyway, it's
             interesting because Howard and I went through he asked
             me,"Are you a Mason?"  I said, "No.  Do you belong to the
             Knights of Malta?"  He said, "No."  And I said, "Well, all
             right.  Tit for tat.  What else have you got?"  So we went
             through all this.  You know what happened?

             We got down to the bottom and I said, "Howard, I believe
             you're a righteous man.  Do you believe in God?"  He said,
             "Yes."  I said, "Do you believe in Divine Intervention?"  He
             said, "Yes."  I said, "Howard, I love my country more than I
             love myself.  I love my country more than I love any other
             thing other than God Almighty."  And I said, "Howard, I
             believe in God and I believe that God's hand will be with
             us.  Here is a solid gold coin.  I'm gonna flip it and you
             call it.  If you win, I give you 100% of every thing that I
             have in support and I think the people that support me will
             follow that.  If I win, you do the same thing.  Are you
             ready?"  He said, "No.  I don't think I would want to do
             that."  And I said, "Well, I'll tell you what.  Separately
             we are fighting a very difficult uphill battle.  Together I
             think that we have more than we need to win this election,
             but it's simple.  One of us is going to have to be the
             President and the other the Vice President and I'm willing
             to put it in the hands of God.  Call it!"  And he said, "No,
             I won't."  So I believe Howard Phillips is a politician and
             I am a Patriot.  I think there's a major difference and I
             was heavily disappointed with Mr. Phillips because all he's
             trying to do is still stroke this thing for whatever
             political mileage he can get.  I was very disappointed.  I
             was willing to do it.  It was just this week.  You can call
             him and ask him about it.

             I said to Howard, "Do you remember the Biblical story where
             two mothers had been fighting over ownership of a child?  He
             said, "Yes," and I said, "Do you remember that Solomon's
             decision was to cut the child in half?"  I said, "Because
             Solomon knew that the true mother wouldn't let that happen."
             I said, "Well, I got this coin right here."  I said, "Are
             you ready because I don't want the child cut in half and
             I'll go one way, or I'll go the other."  I think that's all
             I would want.

             I've got a blessing.  The blessing says, "Bo, you have been
             given gifts from God that allow you to know the events of
             the times and to be able to speak them in words that people
             can understand.  You will have large groups of people who
             will listen and depend upon you for those truths."  And it
             says, "They will have no allegiance to you.  They will have
             allegiance to what it is that you are directing them
             toward."  Now, that is the Constitution.  I was more than
             willing to put the faith in Higher Source.  Now, I wouldn't
             use a coin to decide, say, "Should we go into Iraq or not?"
             No, I'm not that kind of President.  We're not going into
             Iraq. Period!  I know the answer to that one!
             But for this, Howard Phillips or Bo Gritz to be the team
             leader, I would trust it to Divine Intervention to a coin
             flip.

             Question:  What about Nicaragua and the new Canal?

             Bo:  It's not going, obviously, to come up until after the
             elections.  But, just after the election, you've got to
             understand how critical it is.  The whole Iran/Contra, they
             were still seeing these jerks from Claire George and even
             Nixon, you see.  Who they should be investigatingGeorge
             Bush, of course, and his proteges the gentleman who is now
             the Ambassador to Korea, he is the man who ran the program
             of Iran/Contra out of the Vice President's office.  These
             are the people who should be investigated, but you notice
             that the Attorney General has said, "There's nothing dirty
             going on at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.  I'm appointed by the
             President.  I've checked in on it myself.  Everything is A-1
             over there."

             After the election, you will see a new Canal.  The Canal has
             to be dug because the Panama Canal cannot accept any
             supertanker and the idea is for the Pacific Rim to be able
             to come through and be serviced.  The Japanese need the iron
             ore in the Amazon Basin.  They need access to our East Coast
             and so that will happen.  The most interesting thing about
             it isit will be created by atomic demolitions.  That is
             something Mother Nature may have something to say about, and
             so, I'm not even going to hazard a guess at what's going to
             happen because as Commander of Special Forces in Latin
             America, I had all the statistics and so I know that if I go
             back and check my notes exactly the megatonage that is to be
             used.  You don't fire it (250 megatons) one at a time.  You
             fire it all at once so that you get the synergism.  Now,
             that's going to be something to behold.  I just hope that
             I'm up in the air quite a distance so I won't be down on the
             ground when everything starts to move around because that is
             part of the Ring of Fire, right there.  A blast there would
             initiate earthquakes of tremendous magnitude.

             My teams have gone down to Managua and we've gone in any
             number of times to help with emergencies after earthquakes
             in Nicaragua and that area, and so get ready.  I'm not sure
             that it'll be as great as the one coming up in California,
             but it will probably be a close 2nd.  Of course, you won't
             have a 250 megaton explosion popping off here!  I think
             you'll just have whatever it is that they shoot from places
             we can't see.

             Question:  Who is your choice for Vice President?

             Bo:  My Vice President is Cy Minett, harder than woodpecker
             lips, 63 years old, fighter pilot, a lot better looking than
             I am.  Cy is a Constitutionalist.  Cy is also a Christian
             and if something does happen to me, Cy Minett he's an expert
             on the Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission,
             etc.  He puts out the "wiring diagram".

             Question:  How can my son (in Provo, Utah) find out the
             proof of the money issue and the Federal Reserve?

             Bo:  Well, this is interesting for people.  I was just in
             Denver and they've got a mint and they have a Federal
             Reserve there.  Here's where it can be located: First of all
             is Article 1, Section 8 of The Constitution.  I hope that my
             memory serves me correct.  It says, "Only the Federal
             Government can coin money and regulate the value thereof."
             The Federal Reserve is not anything federal, in the sense of
             the Federal Government.

             Now, how you find out that write or call any Federal
             Reserve.  Denver is close to him.  San Francisco has another
             one.  And ask them, say, "Hello, I'm at Provo and I'm a
             college student and I'm trying to study about the Federal
             Reserve."  Don't tell them all the nasty things.  Say, "I'm
             trying to study about economics on the Federal Reserve.
             Would you please send me...  Don't you have an info.
             document.  It's called I'll Bet You Didn't Know from The
             Federal Reserve."  They'll say, "Sure."  They'll fire it
             right out to you.  The very first point of I'll Bet You
             Didn't Know, their info. document, says, "The Federal
             Reserve is not federal.  It is a private consortium of
             banks."

             The second one is Article 1, Section 10.  It says that only
             gold and silver can be made legal tender within the United
             States.

             By the way, if you have any extra money get some bags of
             silver coins and if you can...  A guy came up to me and
             said, "Bo, do you accept gold?", and he flipped this gold
             coin on the table.  I said, "Of course!"  He says, "I want
             your stuff."  I said, "Take anything you want."  A guy came
             up and said, "Do you take silver?"  I love people like that.
             If you have silver or you have gold, friends, it spends!
             We have a survival chain... I was going to wear it for you
             today.  I used to wear it everywhere I went.  It was just
             habit, I suppose.  I speak Swahili; in Africa I can spend
             that survival chain.  I've been in Saudi Arabia as an
             advisor; it spends.  In Latin America, it spends.  In Asia,
             it spends.  It is 24 karat.  It weighs about 12 oz.  It is
             in little links that I can bust off.  Now, that gets me out
             of trouble.  In Special Forces, we're given these things.

             These are called survival chains.  Well, let's say I don't
             take a mark (of the beast), but yet I need gasoline real bad
             and I come up and say, "Hi, I don't have a mark but I've got
             one of these.  It's a silver dollar.  It's dated 1921."  The
             guy says, "Gee whiz, they don't have those anymore."  I
             said, "Do you think you could just scan yourself and pump me
             some gas?"  He said, "Well, what do you think this is
             worth?"  I said, "Whatever you think.  How about ten
             gallons?  How about a full tank?"  I think they are going to
             pump the gas.  It would behoove you to have a bag of silver
             coins.

             I've got a friend called Richard Flowers.  He runs the
             Christian Patriot Association up in Oregon.  That's where
             when we do have any money and we've got maybe three or four
             of these things, we'll save it and send it to him and then
             Richard, whatever the price of gold is, sends it to us.  But
             get some gold or silver if you can.  That's going to spend
             where...  Why are they marking the paper stuff?  You see, in
             Cleveland the other day, the guy told me that all this paper
             money has a little mark running through it and, as matter of
             fact, he said that one had magnetic ink.  There's a little
             line that goes right through there (Bo points to a thread in
             the paper bill).  It's on the $100s, the $50s and the guy in
             Cleveland told me, he said, "Bo, we've even been ordered to
             mark the $5s."  (Someone hands Bo money)  Is it all right if
             I keep this because it's worthless?!!  (Laughter).  You see
             the mark running right through here.

             Now, here is why they do this.  I believe when the National
             Emergency comes out, where we go to the cashless system,
             then they'll tell you, "You will turn in..."  Remember the
             gold in 1933 with Roosevelt?  "...You'll turn it all in.  If
             you keep it, it is a felony."  Now, some people are going to
             say, "I'm not going to take that mark, so they'll try to
             hide some of this stuff and it's going to be like trying to
             take a weapon through the metal detector at the airport,
             because it's interrogatable and, so, get rid of it.  Don't
             have too much of this stuff in the banks, please.  And, if
             you have a lot of it, try to put it into, if you can what
             you can, into gold and silver that will spend.  I'm not a
             prophet, but my predictions are, if we don't change it,
             1994 Martial Law.

             (Someone hands Bo a 1 ounce silver coin.)  Thank you.  You
             see, these are examples of silver.  This is 1 ounce of
             silver.  Tell me a gas station guy, when you pull up in the
             middle of the night and say, "I don't have a mark, but, I've
             got a silver coin."  See, they're going to get rid of this
             stuff.  You can't have it anymore.  All of a sudden, it
             becomes very valuable, doesn't it?  And, so, that's the kind
             of thing that the guy will say, "Go ahead and pump your
             gas." and he'll take it home and give it to his family or to
             his children.  But, that's why they've got the Mark, so that
             you cannot horde it, so that if they stop you, they can scan
             you and they'll be able to tell...  And I think you are
             going to be homeless.  I think they're going to put you away
             if you have very much cash on you.

             Question:  What about William Cooper and his claims about
             extraterrestrials and the Kennedy assassination?

             Bo:  It's a great and a good question and a fair one about
             Bill Cooper and all that he says including the part about
             when I was Commander of Special Forces in Latin America, I
             had something to do with the alien stuff.  Here's the real
             quick run down...

             First of all,  Bill Cooper caught himself in a terrible lie.
             He shot himself.  We didn't do it to him.  Bill Cooper had
             been selling a tape made by someone who worked for me by the
             name of Lars Hansen.  Allegedly, it shows the driver, Bill
             Greer, turning around and killing the President, but, Bob
             Groden is a friend of mine, he was the man for the
             Congressional Assassinations Committee who was their
             technical film advisor.  Life magazine bought up the
             Zapruder film, but, Groden had access to it for the
             Congressional Investigations.  So, Groden made himself a
             first generation copy.  I told Lars, when he showed me that,
             I said, "Lars, you got big trouble.  We never shoot anybody
             with a chrome-plated 45.  We've got so much stuff we could
             use, you'd never use something that would reflect like
             that."  Secondly, the driver impossible.  The reason is
             because the driver has got to control that vehicle.  If
             you're going to kill the President, I don't care how
             hypnotized you've been or how little blood you've got in
             your veins, you don't kill the President every day and turn
             around and have to direct your attentionyou know what
             happens when you turn around if you drop a cigarette butt
             between your knees or you turn around to get something that
             falls off the seatand so, I said, "It's just too tricky and
             you don't need it because there's enough ways to get him
             without using the driver."

             So Lars went to Bob Groden and when he went there Bob Groden
             laughed and pulled out his 1st generation and gave us a copy
             of it and it very clearly shows that it is Kellerman.
             Kellerman is in the right-hand seat.  Kellerman gets down
             when the bullets start flying, then just as the President is
             killed, Kellerman raises up.  When he raises up, the sun
             reflects off of Kellerman's hair.  The same as it's
             reflecting off the other peoples hair, but, the bar is kind
             of a bright bar,  It's slanted up this way and Greer, on the
             1st generation film, has both hands on the wheel just like
             this (Bo demonstrates hand position).  He is turned and
             looked at the President, but, both hands are locked, just
             like they're taught to be locked, so the vehicle isn't going
             to veer.  He turns around, looks at the Presidentno
             question, I think Greer is probably in on it, 'cause he's
             slowing the vehicle downbut, Kellerman lifts up, the bar of
             light shows off his hair, the President is hit in the head.
             I believe from the right front, and, of course, you all know
             the result of it.

             Now, Cooper, of course, has said that he saw that and all
             the secret documents.  Let me give you some logic.
             Does anybody believe that I was a Chief of Congressional
             Relations in the Office of Secretary of Defense?  Does
             anybody believe that I was an Army General Staff Officer in
             the Pentagon?  I have been there at the highest levels of
             classification.  As a Chief of Congressional Relations,
             there were almost no documents that weren't available
             because you have to be there to determine whether Congress
             has the clearance to see the stuff that they request.  Like
             when Senator Barry Goldwater wanted to go into Hangar 18 at
             Wright Patterson, somebody had to see whether or not it was
             all right and they said, "No, you can't go."  Somebody was
             authorized to look and see.  I didn't know anything about
             flying saucers in those days, or aliens and so I didn't go
             looking around, but, I guess I probably could have.

             Here's my point.  Cooper says that when the watch
             officer Cooper's never claimed to be an officer.  He keeps
             saying he's been a Naval Intelligence Officer.  That's a
             lie.  Cooper's been an enlisted man, there's no question.
             He was an enlisted man in the Navy and in the Air Force.
             Cooper said that when the Naval Watch Officer went for
             coffee that he grabbed a file and copied it.  Now, here's
             the problems with that.  See, Cooper's never been around
             classified information.

             First of all, Watch Officers don't go for coffee.  They send
             the enlisted man, probably, to get it.  Secondly, if you do
             go, every safe has a red and green tag.  It says "Open" or
             it says "Closed".  On every safe there is a place to sign in
             and sign out.  If you even take your eyes off those
             containers, you spin all the dials, you put the green tags
             in and you sign them and then you go to the men's room or to
             get coffee.  Nobody leaves those safes open.  Secondly,
             there is no Xerox machine authorized anywhere around
             classified information containers.  Can you understand why?
             Xerox almost put us out of the security business anyway,
             but, you can understand why you couldn't have a Xerox.

             Thirdly, and here's the greatest problem with his logic can
             you imagine having in one file that a Navy person could go
             through and look and find one file that tells everything
             from the aliens to government drug trafficking, to who
             killed John Fitzgerald Kennedy, to everything else that he
             says.  It was all in one file?  Give me a break.
             It would be in probably twenty five files and it would be
             all over the place and why would they have that kind of
             information in Hawaii?  You see, they don't copy this stuff
             and put it all over.  If it is "code word", if it is coded,
             then sometimes an Admiral may have to fly all the way from
             Hawaii to Washington in order to see a "code word" document
             that is S.I. Special Intelligence, Above Top Secret, because
             they don't let these things out, they don't Xerox them and
             send them all out.

             When I was in command of Special Forces Latin America, I
             knew a lot about what was going on within the CIA and our
             covert operations.  My efficiency report is right in here.
             It says, "This officer is responsible for unconventional
             warfare in Latin America."  Unconventional warfare, guerilla
             warfare, subversion, sabotage, assassinations, direct action
             missions, all of those were within my scope of
             responsibilities.  I didn't know anything about aliens.  I
             had never heard anything about them.  I knew about the
             government drug operations.  I didn't like it, but, as a
             commander, you are always taught you keep your eye on your
             mission.

             So, when Manuel Noriega turns up dirty dealing in Operation
             Watch Tower, we're going to kill him and that's what we send
             back.  Then, when I'm ordered by a three star general,
             Harold Arons says, "You keep your hands off Manuel Noreiga.
             He has immense value at the highest levels."  What are you
             going to do?  You don't know how this thing is interfacing
             with the world.  You have to have some faith in great white
             father and big brother.  That's why there is no original
             thought in uniform.  If you've got people in uniform looking
             like Schwarzkopfpeople saying, "Make Schwarzkopf
             President."  Maybe in three or four years if Schwarzkopf
             will start getting his head up and learning what's going on,
             he might make a good President.  But, coming out of uniform,
             friends, you know far more than General Schwarzkopf right
             now about what's real in the world.

             So, that's the story.  I think Cooper got caught and I think
             he got mad.  He put on his phone answering machine, "If you
             support Bo Gritz, Jesus Christ will not claim you."  (Crowd
             laughter)  I don't know what Cooper knows about Jesus.  I
             know this if you looked, for example, at my files, it says
             very clearly, "This officer is given Top Secret clearance,
             background investigation this date..."  It's easy to show.
             It's no big deal.  But, Cooper has never produced a single
             document that has ever shown that he has even had access.
             Your assignments say, "This officer was a Chief of
             Congressional Relations... this period of time."  Cooper has
             no documents that show or he's ever presented I've got his
             file that shows he had any kind of assignment that would
             allow him to have any other clearance than maybe he turned
             the lights on and off for a briefing one time.

             Here is what we're going to do.  You see, if the alien thing
             is real you know, about The Grays and The Reptilians here's
             what happens: Who created us?  God.  Thank you.  Who created
             government?  We the people created government.  Now, if we
             created the government, should there be secrets?  There is a
             need for national security, but, friends, if there are
             aliens and when I say, "I'm going to open up Hangar 18" that
             doesn't mean that's all.  When I say, "If you want to go
             into Hangar 18, we're taking volunteers." I mean that we are
             going to open the book, because I don't care what's in
             there.

             Don't you think America should know what is going on?  We
             need to know the history, all the way back from the very
             beginning.  We need to know whether it was Nazis flying
             saucers or whether it was from outer space.  We need to know
             what landed at Roswell (New Mexico) or crashed and that they
             were so secret that they wouldn't let Barry Goldwater look
             at it.  We need to know these things.  Why?  It's our
             country.  Who are we keeping the secrets from?  The
             Russians?  Mikhail Gorbachev perhaps? No, and so, do you
             understand when I say, "We're going to open the doors to
             Hangar 18", what does that mean?  It doesn't mean that we
             say, "Hide everything in Hangar 18, we're getting ready to
             open the doors."  It means the whole program gets their
             doors opened.

             If you want to be part of it, if you've got some skill and
             knowledge, you make sure we get your name and address.  I'll
             guarantee you that when we're in the office, you'll be one
             that will be one of a party of a hundred.  You think that
             this inspection in Iraq is going to be in detail?  We're
             going to get to the bottom.  We need to know if the aliens
             are here to help us GOOD.  If they are here to not nibble on
             our ankles, we need to know that, don't we?  So let's just
             get to the truth.  Isn't the truth a very precious
             commodity?  But, it sure isn't easy.

             Question:  How do we balance all the paper currency against
             your silver and gold standard?  What if we don't have enough
             precious metals?

             Bo:  Thank you!  You see, it is good and when I say
             something like opening Hangar 18, it doesn't just mean as
             literal as opening Hangar 18.  It means getting to the
             bottom of it.  What he just said was, "It says in the
             Constitution nothing will be made legal tender except gold
             and silver."  And that's true and that's what we're going to
             do.  I believe that God will help us.  I think that America
             within our territories, we have enough gold and silver and
             we're going to do like we did back in 1791.  We're going to
             monetize the world's gold and silver.  That means that if
             you've got a Krugerrand or if you've got a whatever the
             Russians are using over there if that stuff is real and it
             meets our weights and measures, then we accept it.  But,
             here's what we're going to do initially because you see what
             he's sayingvery intelligent observation.

             Let's say that I'm Rockefeller.  Let's say that I have a
             trillion dollars in Federal Reserve Notes and I say, "Oh,
             you're going back on the gold and silver standard?  Good.
             Here is my trillion dollars worth of worthless Federal
             Reserve Notes, I want all of your gold."  That could happen,
             right?  Yes.  So, here's what we do first because we are
             going back on the gold and silver standard, but there is an
             interim step.  Initially, what we're going to do because
             we've got to go back under Constitutional currency that
             means it has to be monetized.  We're going to monetize the
             highways of the United States.  Now, isn't that valuable?
             It costs a lot of money to lay highways, doesn't it?  So, if
             we say that our currency we're going to start putting it
             out, it will say "United States Note"5, 10, 20, 100.  If
             you have Federal Reserve Notes, you'll just be able to
             exchange them or the Fed will be spent out of existence.
             Don't worry about losing any money.  You're a citizen,
             you're protected.  But, we're going to monetize it based on
             our highway system.  Do you think we have enough highways
             laid in America to cover our issuance of notes?  I think so,
             but, you can't take the highway with you.  So, Rockefeller
             couldn't turn over a trillion dollars worth of worthless
             Federal Reserve Notes and dig up a trillion dollars worth of
             asphalt and put it on his back and haul it over to Europe.
             Do you see why we're doing this?

             We monetize the highway system first, then we call in all of
             the currency.  It's traded in and once we've got it...  When
             you say the gold is gone, if the gold is gone, we're going
             to have a very long rod which will contain very many
             criminals who will be tarred and feathered and probably sent
             in some kind of floating craft towards Europe because it is
             criminal if they have gotten rid of the gold.  According to
             the 1991 statistics, we have enough gold and silver in
             reserve that we can do this, but, if what he is saying is
             right, because who has been in Fort Knox recently, see I
             don't know.  If they have been secretly running this stuff
             off, that's why we can't immediately say your Federal
             Reserve Note will get you an ounce of gold.  Initially, it's
             going to get you a piece of pavement which you can't take
             with you.  Then, once we've made the transition then we go
             back.  Yes, you'll have a Note and you can take it in when
             you want to anywhere in the world.  You can bring it here
             and it'll be exchanged for gold or silver.  That means that
             we don't have inflation.  It means that we don't have
             devaluation.

             Follow Up Question:  Would you make any effort to get it
             (the gold) back...?

             Bo:  I've already mentioned that we're going to let the Emir
             of Kuwait go and get his little chunk of pot metal from the
             Federal Reserve.  If they have the gold and silver then,
             yes, you can put on a lot of bravado to try and get it back.
             If they don't want to give it back to you because they're
             angry that you have run the Federal Reserve off, then, it's
             very difficult other than war, isn't it?  I don't think I
             would ever send young men and women to fight for MONEY.  If
             you haven't got something better than that to fight for,
             you're in terrible trouble.  So, let them keep it.  Again,
             we'll monetize our highway system until we are up to speed
             with gold and silver.

             A lot of this, you've got to put in the hands of God,
             because, otherwise, there wouldn't be any glory for God.  We
             would think we were so haughty that we did it all ourselves,
             and then, isn't that kind of the way the history of the
             world goes?  We're so smart, so haughty, we don't need
             anybody.  Well, we are children.  I don't care if you've got
             a Ph.D., you're a child and probably more so than a lot of
             other folks.  We are children.  Our dependence needs to be
             on God and that's why, as a combat soldier, I think the Lord
             has called on me.  I don't know if I'm going to be
             President.  I don't know the Lord's agenda.  Maybe I'm a
             watchman, but, if that's what I am, I am going to do the
             best I can.  I've been anointed by Christian ministers as a
             "Modern Day Gideon" before I was a candidate for President.
             I don't know whether that anointment by oil is holy or not.
             I don't care.

             I am a human.  I am a son of God.  I recognize and I claim
             that kinship and I'm going forward fearlessly to do what I
             believe is right.  I'm not going to do anything original,
             it's going to be under The Constitution.  I believe that
             we'll survive and if we don't survive, then, all we do is go
             home and that's a fairly decent reward.  So, I don't think
             we have to be fearful.

             When I was thirteen, gosh, I was invincible.  Me and my dog,
             Smokey, and my gun were all over those wheat fields in
             Oklahoma.  I had no thought at all other than if I had
             wanted to fly, if I flapped my arms enough, I probably would
             lift myself up.  And I hate to see a child who has anything
             but great confidence and courage because God's hand is so
             powerful and so perfect and so strong that, literally, if
             need be, we could be encompassed so that no harm could come
             to us.  I have read accounts where women, mothers, have
             picked a car up that has run over their child.  Tell me
             that's human strength?  That's God strength.  When I was in
             Nebraska going to the University of Nebraska, a woman
             actually got down into the lions' denher child had crawled
             under and had fallen down into the lions' den in the Omaha
             Zooand she got down there and a lioness had her child in
             its mouth.  She literally freed the child from the lioness,
             crawled back out of the den and didn't have a bit of
             trouble.

             So, tell me about the Lord.  You keep faith in Him and then
             you do what you know to be right and be fearless and, if you
             will, you'll see the Angels.  They'll be there for you.
             Again, remember this before the guilty can be punished, the
             innocents must suffer.  Now, you've got to remember that.  I
             wouldn't want you to have your spirit broken because a loved
             one was taken wrongfully.  You can't have your spirit
             broken.  You've got to keep your faith in God.  You'll join
             that loved one soon enough.  Remember, if that didn't
             happen, the guilty could not be punished because God's Law
             is perfect, and so, the blood of those offended, those
             innocent ones, they cry out and that gives God the reason
             and the justice to make those account who are responsible.
             I'm excited about it, aren't you?  And so, together remember
             that, not alone but together there isn't anything that we
             can't do.  So, we just restore the United States, no matter
             what CNN says, and we just go back to The Constitution no
             matter what George Bush says!


--------* End of speech *-------------------------------------------------

Don


-- 
<*> Don Allen <*>             1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS
dona@bilver.uucp - Internet   1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight
88:4205/1.1  - MUFON Network  1:3607/20.2  -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net
NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN


From cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!sgigate!odin!sgi!cdp!cberlet Wed Oct  7 14:19:47 PDT 1992
Article: 11620 of alt.activism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!sgigate!odin!sgi!cdp!cberlet
From: NLG Civil Liberties Committee 
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Date: 06 Oct 92 21:30 PDT
Subject: Re: Weaver
Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway 
Message-ID: <1296500401@igc.apc.org>
References: <1992Sep21.184316.3271@null.uucp>
Nf-ID: #R:1992Sep21.184316.3271@null.uucp:328259797:cdp:1296500401:000:288
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cberlet    Oct  6 21:30:00 1992
Lines: 9



Gritz says he is a Mormon, but his book and his speeches reflect a
substantial congruence with Identity theories. Christian Identity is
condemned by both the Mormons and mainline Protestant denominations.
If you want evidence, read Gritz's newsletters or his book Called to
Serve.
-Chip



From cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!ksjwr Sat Oct 10 16:57:51 PDT 1992
Article: 6266 of alt.conspiracy
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
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From: ksjwr@acad3.alaska.edu (REDELSS JOHN W)
Subject: Bo Gritz
Message-ID: <10OCT199212594107@acad3.alaska.edu>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Keywords: Jews, anti-Semitic, white supremacy
Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 16:59:00 GMT
Lines: 11

Is Bo Gritz an anti-Semite or a white supremacist?  I want to know.  I NEED to
know before I vote on November 3rd.

Please respond by e-mail if you believe as I do that the Trilateral Commission
and the CFR are sinister, criminal organizations devoted to the overthrow of
the U.S. Constitution.

If you are Chip Berlet or others who think the Trilateral Commission and the 
CFR are benign organizations devoted to world peace through international
organizations such as the U.N. don't bother answering my question.  I don't
trust your judgement or your motives.  No offense intended, of course. 


From cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!ksjwr Tue Oct 13 10:21:29 PDT 1992
Article: 6336 of alt.conspiracy
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!ksjwr
From: ksjwr@acad3.alaska.edu (REDELSS JOHN W)
Subject: Bo Gritz not white supremacist
Message-ID: <12OCT199223495833@acad3.alaska.edu>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Keywords: Bo Gritz, white supremacist, anti-Semite
Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 03:49:00 GMT
Lines: 26

I got some campaign literature today in the mail today from the Bo Gritz
organization.  The last page reads:

       	"RANDY WEAVER - THE TRUTH HAS TO BE TOLD

	This story must be told to the world in truth.  The media, particularly
the newsprint, has totally distorted the truth of this matter.  While the
newspaper focused falsely on Bo's supposed membership in Christian Identity, or
a leader of White supremacy or giving the Nazi salute the truth is that Bo is
NOT [emphasis in original] a member of any white supremacy group and he did NOT
give the Nazi salute.  Bo's father was killed by the Nazi's."

	Also, I would like to add something else I have discovered today.  I
called a friend that I know from my church today who informed me that Bo Gritz
is a member of our church, Mormon.  I have been a member of this church for
thirty years, and in all that time I have never met ONE person that I felt was
white supremacist or anti-Semite.  Further, I am particularly sensitive on 
these subjects because I have an hispanic wife of fifteen years and three
hispanic children.  Further, as a matter of church doctrine, Latter-day Saints
believe themselves to be literal descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  This
is why I have never met a single Mormon that was anti-Semitic.

	Bo Gritz is not a white supremacist nor is he a Jew hater.  Information
to the contrary is probably the results of a deliberate disinformation
campaign.



From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!wupost!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!ksjwr Tue Oct 27 16:31:29 PST 1992
Article: 12364 of alt.activism
Newsgroups: alt.activism
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From: ksjwr@acad3.alaska.edu (REDELSS JOHN W)
Subject: Gritz Burns UN Flag
Message-ID: <27OCT199210103555@acad3.alaska.edu>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Keywords: Bo Gritz, UN, Constitution
Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 18:10:00 GMT
Lines: 60

Today is October 27, 1992.  Yesterday I received this over Bitnet.  It is a
verbatim account of an article that appeared in the October 26, 1992 issue of
THE DAILY UNIVERSE which is the student newspaper at the Brigham Young
University in Provo, Utah:



Populist Party presidential candidate James "Bo" Gritz condemned George Bush as
a traitor, outlined a plan to get rid of the Department of Education, burned
the United Nations flag moments after saying he would shoot anyone who burned
the U.S. flag, and led 8,000 people in raising their right hand and taking a
"Constitutional oath" at the Huntsman Center on the University of Utah campus
Saturday night.  The event was sponsored by the Bo Gritz National Presidential
Campaign.

Standing in front of fifty-five empty chairs that Gritz said represented "the
supportive spirits of this nation's Founding Fathers," Gritz spoke for more
than three hours, while the crowd screamed "We want Bo!" and "Liberty or
death!"  Populist party T-shirts, banners, and flags filled the arena, with
Gritz occasionally stopping his speech to point out signs he particularly like. 
Gritz was joined on stage by local and national organizers for his campaign,
several security guards, and his wife, Claudia.

Gritz began his remarks by proposing a "simple plan to cure the national debt." 
Claiming that the Federal Reserve Bank is unconstitutional and that the 16th
Amendment (which provides for the income tax) was passed by conspiracy, Gritz
said that as President he would simply strike a "worthless four trillion-dollar
coin," and force the Federal Reserve to accept it as legal tender "under the
same presidential powers demonstrated by Abe Lincoln."

Gritz admitted that this would bankrupt the Federal Reserve system and cause
America to default on the money it owes to foreign creditors who finance the
majority of America's debt, but said he didn't care.  "I don't care about other
countries," he shouted, supported by cheers from the audience.  "I care about
America and making America first!"

>From economics, Gritz went on to explain his views on cancer and AIDS
research--which he said would be better carried out by natural healers than by
doctors--and the "New World Order," which he characterized as an attempt by
Bush, the Rockefeller family and the Council on Foreign Relations to hand
American sovereignty over to foreign powers.  He also implicated these groups
in the assassination of President Kennedy.

Comparing himself to Captain Moroni [a Book of Mormon hero], Gritz asked all
the children in the audience to come down to the stage--about 300 complied--and
hold aloft the American flag and U.S. Constitution as "titles of liberty."

He said he would ask all the children to take an oath and pledge "true faith
and allegiance" to the Constitution, but was interrupted by shouts from the
audience:  "Give us the oath, Bo!"

In response, Gritz asked the audience to stand, raise their right hand, and
repeat after him "the oath of the Constitution."

As the last strains of "So help me God" faded into cheers, Gritz took out a
lighter and set a United Nations flag on fire.  The crowd went wild.






From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!ksjwr Tue Oct 27 16:31:40 PST 1992
Article: 12363 of alt.activism
Newsgroups: alt.activism
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From: ksjwr@acad3.alaska.edu (REDELSS JOHN W)
Subject: Gritz Burns UN Flag
Message-ID: <27OCT199210203187@acad3.alaska.edu>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Keywords: Bo Gritz, UN, Constitution
Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 18:20:00 GMT
Lines: 9

Points I consider amazing about Bo Gritz rally in Salt Lake City:

	o  Over eight thousand attended.
	o  Bo Gritz called George Bush a traitor.
	o  Bo Gritz burned a UN flag.
	o  Bo Gritz is on the ballot in at least seventeen states.
	o  No mention was made of this in the national media. 

Does anyone besides me find this last point a little peculiar?


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!ksjwr Wed Nov  4 13:19:59 PST 1992
Article: 6910 of alt.conspiracy
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
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From: ksjwr@acad3.alaska.edu (REDELSS JOHN W)
Subject: Vote for Bo Gritz
Message-ID: <1NOV199219223073@acad3.alaska.edu>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System)
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Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 03:22:00 GMT
Lines: 37

I have sought e-mail in this newsgroup with information on the presidential
candidancy of Bo Gritz who is not well covered in the mainstream media.  I
was principally interested in determining whether or not there was any truth to
charges of anti-Semitism and white supremacist leanings.  I have received a 
lot of material both for and against Mr. Gritz.

More importantly I have been referred to a couple of private lists where Gritz
is discussed at considerable length in many of the posts with most of the posts
being against him.

I have been somewhat surprised to learn that in all the arguments made against
Gritz, not one person has brought forth any evidence in the form of verifiable
quotes from things he's said or written that would lead me to believe he is
either anti-Semitic or white supremacist.  If he is either I find it remarkable
that the evidence has not been forthcoming.

I must therefore tentatively conclude that the charges are false.  Bo Gritz is
neither anti-Semitic or white supremacist.  Chip Berlet is mistaken about
this.  

I therefore encourage all who oppose the internationalist objectives of the
CFR, the Trilateral Commission, the United Nations and the so-called New World
Order, to vote for James "Bo" Gritz on November 3rd.

Given the support he needs, Bo Gritz will reestablish the Constitution as the
supreme law of the land.  He will eliminate the Federal Reserve Board and the
Internal Revenue Service.  And he will protect the sovereignty of the United
States from usurpation by the United Nations or any other organization trying
to make the United States part of a global dictatorship.

I repeat.  Bo Gritz is NOT a Neo-Nazi, a white supremacist, an anti-Semite, a
skinhead, a member of Aryan Nation, a John Bircher, a member of KKK or Posse
Comitatus, or any other right-wing group you may have a disagreement with.

He is a conservative American dedicated to the preservation of the Constitution
in the tradition of the Founding Fathers and opposed to globalist schemes that
would set the Constitution aside. 


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!sgi!cdp!cberlet Mon Nov  9 08:10:09 PST 1992
Article: 12884 of alt.activism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!sgi!cdp!cberlet
From: NLG Civil Liberties Committee 
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Date: 07 Nov 92 09:06 PST
Subject: Re: Populist Party = Nazis
Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway 
Message-ID: <1296500430@igc.apc.org>
References: <1992Oct28.232450.10099@uvm.edu>
Nf-ID: #R:1992Oct28.232450.10099@uvm.edu:-2119996470:cdp:1296500430:000:2000
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cberlet    Nov  7 09:06:00 1992
Lines: 47


From: NLG Civil Liberties Committee 
Subject: Populist Party = Nazis

/* Written  9:53 pm  Nov  2, 1992 by cberlet@igc.apc.org in igc:alt.conspiracy */
/* ---------- "Vote for Bo Gritz" ---------- */

Gritz has repeatedly praised and participated in Christian
Identity, here are excerpts from his speech at a Christian
Identity meeting hosted by Identity preacher Pete Peters, a raving
anti-Jewish bigot:

Gritz:
   "I believe that the Identity Christian Movement will continue
to grow in this nation until it is able to stand self-sufficient
in spite of the government....Basically the Zionists are taking
over and we Christians are being formed into small pockets that
have to go to camps twice a year to learn what's going on....The
enemy you face today is a satanic overthrow where he would change
the United States of America, a nation under God, into USA
incorporated with King George as chariman of the board, and a
Zionist group that would rule over us as long as satan might be on
earth....I am telling you that he (God) has given us all that we
need. He's given us the likes of Pete Peters, he's given us the
likes of the Identity Christian movement."
    -Source, , Center for Democratic Renewal
    (Atlanta), December
1991, page 19.

>From The Idaho Falls , September 13, 1992 (page
B6):
 "[Our] editorial should have said that Gritz adheres to less
strident views of the Christian Identity movement. There are a
number of Christian Identity Churches. A national spokesman for
Gritz, Jack McLamb, has told Associated Press that Gritz adheres
to a blend of Christian Identity, Baptist, and LDS [Mormon]
beliefs. Whether he is a member of the LDS Church or not has not
been able to be confirmed despite repeated calls to a Gritz number
identified by an answering machine as the Center for Action. -
Editor."

Gritz: "Eight Jewish families virtually control the entire
FED--only three are American jews [sic]." "Called to Serve," page
609.

-Chip Berlet



From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!sgi!cdp!cberlet Mon Nov  9 08:22:11 PST 1992
Article: 12883 of alt.activism
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From: NLG Civil Liberties Committee 
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Date: 07 Nov 92 08:49 PST
Subject: Re: MARK-OF-THE-BEA$T bar-code$
Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway 
Message-ID: <1296500429@igc.apc.org>
References: <1992Oct27.122914.1983@cnsvax.uwe>
Nf-ID: #R:1992Oct27.122914.1983@cnsvax.uwe:-1624509270:cdp:1296500429:000:380
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cberlet    Nov  7 08:49:00 1992
Lines: 10



Re: Bar Codes and Mark of the Beast.
   Actually, this particular lunatic screed is being circulated among
several small far-right Christian fundamentalist groups and the
proto-Nazi Christian Identity movement. Bo Gritz ran an article
supporting this mania in his newsletter. Prior to this craze, the
Mark of the Beast was alleged to be the birth mark on Gorby's forehead.
-Chip



From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817 Mon Nov  9 16:12:39 PST 1992
Article: 7177 of alt.conspiracy
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From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz
Date: 9 Nov 1992 06:54:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 169
Message-ID: <1dl1v6INNni6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


The following is a Prodigy discussion of Bo Gritz which I thought
would be illuminating here.
-Steve



PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service         11/06/92         3:05 AM


         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    11/02 10:19 AM
TO:      R GILBERT   (WDFX53A)
FROM:    JUDITH BARNETT   (HKMC94A)
SUBJECT: WORLD GOV.UN TROOPS
 
Ruth...."Politics makes strange bedfellows", and I would say
that such racist groups would support Bush before they would
Gritz, as Bush is elitest WASP through and through, which   
coincides with their way of thinking.  Also note the        
republicans stand on religion which is also conducive to the
white supremacist mentallity. The KKK sprang from Southern  
Baptist (Fundamentalist) conditioning.                      
  I really don't know anything about Gritz, the man, so I   
have no idea as to his personal beliefs.  But I would think 
the man would be smart enough to not associate himself with 
any kind of racist group if he wanted to be president.      
  This is probably one of those situations of guilt by      
association, not fact.  But then, one never really knows    
what's in the hearts of men.                                
  I've got one guy calling me prejudiced against Jews. Why? 
Simply because I use the word to clarify the situation I'm  
talking about, which hasn't a thing to do with my personal  
feelings about anybody whatsoever.                          
  People love to distort what others say to serve their own 
agendas.  We can be here criticizing Christians, and we're  
not seen as being prejudiced against all Christians, but    
just disapproving of certain behaviors.                     
  But, if we criticize the behavior of blacks or Jews,      
individually or as a group, we're called prejudiced towards 
the entire race or religion, when such is not the case at   
all.                                                        
  Gritz evidently made some comment identifying the         
international bankers behind this NWO conspiracy, many of   
which happen to be Jewish. This enabled those who don't want
the NWO exposed for what it is and who is behind it, to use 
his comments as a way to discredit him.                     
  Now, for all I know, Gritz could be guilty as alleged, but
no man seeking to be president would knowingly admit to     
being prejudiced, so my guess is that he just told the truth
about who was behind the NWO, and these rumor-mongers       
jumped at it for a `smear campaign' to ensure that Gritz has
no chance to get elected.                                   
  I admit to being prejudiced, we all are to some extent,   
not against people in general, their race or religion, but  
prejudiced against the wrongs that they do. You and I have  
been discussing the contradictions of people who claim to be
Christians, thus, we could be said to have a prejudice      
against those contradictions/wrongs, but that doesn't mean  
that we hate the people, or all Christians.                 
  If we say we dislike the international bankers who are    
part of the NWO cabal, that isn't saying we are prejudiced  
against all Jews just because those bankers happen to be    
Jewish.  Although, I'm sure there are some people who will  
do so, as people like to generalize and have an enemy to    
blame for their own short-comings as people.                
  Sometimes I really get disgusted with people and their    
ignorance, where they can't separate the wrongs people do   
from the people themselves, or blame everyone.              
  None of us are perfect. I don't care what color, race,    
religion, nationality, or gender one is, we all make        
mistakes as individuals, and as groups. It is the wrongs we 
do that cause people to be hurt that must be condemned, not 
the individual unless that individual has deliberately      
chosen to live their lives to continuously hurt other       
people.  We commit those wrongs as individuals, not as a    
religion, race, nationality, or gender. It is the individual
who is responsible and deserves the results of their actions



         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    11/02  1:22 PM
TO:      JUDITH BARNETT   (HKMC94A)
FROM:    R GILBERT   (WDFX53A)
SUBJECT: WORLD GOV.UN TROOPS
 
I agree with most of your note, and what I am about to      
say might just be an addition to what what we are thinking. 
There are two kinds of racism and bigotry, one is the       
subtle racism, a feeling of superiority, that we feel       
when confronted with some member of a particular group.     
Then there is "radical racism", the one who wants to        
keep others down in order to feel superior.                 
These people want to take the jobs away from a minority     
group because they feel the members of his group deserves   
to have it.  Some of them will kill just to achieve this    
goal.                                                       
Any member of the KKK is not a Christian, because the       
premise of Christianity is love and compassion for other    
human beings in spite of their race, religion, etc.         
                                                            
A friend of David Duke is not a friend of mine.             
So if Gritz is a "racist" of the second kind, I don't want  
anything to do with his "cause."                            
There are two group of people who I can not accept.         
1.   The Communists                                         
2.   Racists who called themselves Christians.              
                                                            
rg                                                          



         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    11/02  5:34 PM
TO:      R GILBERT   (WDFX53A)
FROM:    MICHAEL SOILEAU   (DMXS91A)
SUBJECT: WORLD GOV.UN TROOPS
 
Just to let you know, Bo Gritz's state campaign chairman for
Connecticut is a Jew. A black pastor from Illinois was      
personally responsible for getting thousands of petition    
signatures for Bo, and one of Bo's best friends from Nam is 
Gary Goldman. In Bo's newsletter this month, he says Liberty
Lobby asked to use his name as an adviser, but they have    
never even sent him any correspondence. They support Perot. 



         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    11/03  3:16 PM
TO:      MICHAEL SOILEAU   (DMXS91A)
FROM:    R GILBERT   (WDFX53A)
SUBJECT: WORLD GOV.UN TROOPS
 
I hope you forgive my ignorance regarding Gritz, as         
I have devoted myself to study and learn the beliefs        
of the top three.                                           
I caught a lot of heat from Duke's followers when he was    
running, in the Closeup bb. But I am not familiar with      
most of the racists organizations.                          
Could you explain to me who is Gary Goldman?                
And what the Liberty Lobby is all about?                    
                                                            
rg                                                          
                                                            
2.08 pm Central                                             



         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    11/03  6:27 PM
TO:      R GILBERT   (WDFX53A)
FROM:    MICHAEL SOILEAU   (DMXS91A)
SUBJECT: WORLD GOV.UN TROOPS
 
Gary Goldman is one of Bo's best friends from Nam., and Gary
is a Jew. I was just using him as an example to point out   
the inconsistencies in Bo's critics that try to make him out
to be anti-semitic.                                         



-Steve


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pitt.edu!pitt!geb Mon Nov 16 08:53:57 PST 1992
Article: 7369 of alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pitt.edu!pitt!geb
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz
Message-ID: <17477@pitt.UUCP>
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:13:14 GMT
References: <29OCT199209234254@acad3.alaska.edu> 
Sender: news@cs.pitt.edu
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science
Lines: 17

In article  hypes@boi.hp.com (Gary Hypes) writes:

>I suspect the truth about Gritz lies somewhere in the middle.  No doubt
>about it, politically you would have to place Gritz somewhere to the
>right of Herod Antipas.  On the other hand, I haven't seen anything to
>indicate that he's the raving looney his detractors make him out to be.

Well, how about the UPC bar codes being the mark of the beast?  That
stuff was in his campaign literature!  I'd say anyone that believes
that stuff has to be a lunatic.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!do-not-reply-to-path Mon Nov 16 23:30:42 PST 1992
Article: 7396 of alt.conspiracy
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!do-not-reply-to-path
From: ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz
Message-ID: <1992Nov17.011804.26844@news.ysu.edu>
Sender: news@news.ysu.edu (Usenet News Admin)
Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn.ysu.edu
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:18:04 GMT
Lines: 14


As to UPC bar codes, I am not myself a believer in end-time biblical
prophecy. However, a number of otherwise intelligent people accept
the book of Revelations as an accurate and God-inspired statement of
our coming history. It is a document obviously written in symbols, 
with a great deal of latitude as to how those symbols are to be 
understood. The "Mark of the Beast" is usually taken to have a numerical
significance, and to be associated with the privelege of participating
in a totally controlled economic marketplace. If one accepts the 
original premise of Revalation's validity for our time, then it
does not seem too unreasonable a stretch to consider UPC codes an
aspect of the "Mark of the Beast" symbolism. 

-Steve


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!db7n+ Mon Dec  7 16:33:18 PST 1992
Article: 7921 of alt.conspiracy
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!db7n+
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Message-ID: 
Date: Mon,  7 Dec 1992 13:30:48 -0500 
From: "David A. Byler" 
Subject: Re: Gritz - Mormon officials warn against his teachings
In-Reply-To: <1992Dec3.054804.6462@cs.ucla.edu>
References: <1992Dec3.054400.6335@cs.ucla.edu>
	<1992Dec3.054804.6462@cs.ucla.edu>
Lines: 15

We are given the following news by Brad Pierce:

>     Yet four years ago, Bo Gritz (rhymes with Knights)
>accepted a nomination to run for Vice-President of the United
>States on a ticket with "former" Ku Klux Klan grand dragon
>David Duke, from the Populist Party.....

If the article starts off with a lie, why should we trust the rest of
it?  Bo Gritz quit the Populist Party ticket after Duke was nominated as
the Presidential hopeful.  Perhaps, when these folks get their facts
straight for once, people might begin to take them seriously.

Andy Byler




From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bz965 Wed Dec  9 23:00:46 PST 1992
Article: 8039 of alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bz965
From: bz965@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Hatch)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Gritz Apologists
Date: 10 Dec 1992 03:36:44 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <1g6e0cINNch3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I find it interesting that those who attack people like Chip
Berlet often make very vague, negative assertions about the
evidence. For example, they claim to have searched far and wide
for evidence, but don't say where. I have yet to see anyone
actually prove specific factual claims by Berlet or the PART
report to be false. It seems to be rather unfair to characterize
a source as "lying" or spreading disinformation without concrete
evidence that is indepentently verifiable by others.
I would like to point out that the nominations of David Duke and 
James "Bo" Gritz as Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates
of the Populist Party were reported in the March 28, 1988 issue
of Spotlight newspaper. The articles on page 4 and 5 show a photo
of David Duke and Gritz side-by-side, firmly clasping hands after
their nominations. Gritz is quoted as saying "There is nothing in 
the Populist Party platform I don't agree with." Is there anyone
who can provide evidence (independently verifiable) that these
articles are inaccurate? 
Also, Gritz's own book mentions his connection to Identity
Christian preacher Pete Peters. More about Peters can be found in
the book The Silent Brotherhood: Inside America's Racist
Underground by Kevin Flynn and Gary Gerhardt (Free Press, 1989).


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!wupost!usc!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!ksjwr Mon Dec 14 19:33:31 PST 1992
Article: 8186 of alt.conspiracy
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!wupost!usc!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!ksjwr
From: ksjwr@acad3.alaska.edu (REDELSS JOHN W)
Subject: Re: Chip Berlet
Message-ID: <12DEC199215255188@acad3.alaska.edu>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
References: <9DEC199203593502@acad3.alaska.ed> <1299600109@igc.apc.org>
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:25:00 GMT
Lines: 53

In article <1299600109@igc.apc.org>, cberlet@igc.apc.org (NLG Civil Liberties Committee) writes...
> 
> 
>Hi,
> It really is a shame that you are not only an incompetent
> researcher but prone to personal smears as well. If it would be
> of interest, I will happily upload my current bio. If you knew how
> to do research, you could do a search of my published articles and
> get an idea of who I am, or check the Library of Congress catalog.
> But since you cannot even find evidence for facts that even Gritz
> himself does not contest, then I suppose that it a lot to ask.
> Let me know.
> -Chip

I am John W. Redelfs of Ketchikan Alaska, Chip.  And you can address me by name
if you want to.  I don't know why you call me an incompetent researcher, Chip.
In my post I never claimed to be a researcher at all.  I just said I was 
gathering what information I could find on Bo Gritz from alt.conspiracy, 
and various e-mail lists I am subscribed to.

I find it curious that Bo hasn't written or said more that is clearly
anti-Semitic or white racist than he has.  I have trusted your research to
provide me with the most damning material available.  And there is precious
little in your material to back up your claims in the way of quotes from
Gritz's writings and speeches.

As for me being "prone to personal smears," what did I do?  All I did was ask
some questions about you.  Who are you?  Why are you so down on Gritz?
Who do you work for?  Do you have some axe to grind?  Are you honest?  Can
we trust your testimony on these matters?

Is this a personal smear to want to know something more about you?  Yes, 
as per your post quoted above, please do provide us with some biographical
information.  That is, if you have nothing to hide.

I, myself, do not want to support Bo Gritz if he is in the least degree
anti-Semitic or white racist.  I detest such people.  But I have been unable
to uncover anything convincing me that he is.  Your own material is the most
damning of all.  And it contains almost nothing from Gritz's speeches and
writings to convince me he is either a white racist or an anti-Semite.
Maybe you could just post some quotes from Gritz with citations so we could
all see what a Jew hater and white racist he is?

Never mind a liturgy of who he hangs out with.  My best friend for years
was a Marxist-Leninist with whom I disagreed about almost everything.  In 
all that time he never persuaded me to move an inch from  my basically
John Birch Society positions.  No I am not a Bircher, but I have great 
respect for their doctrines which I believe are correct.

In order to be the radical right wing anti-Semite and white racist you claim
he is, Bo Gritz has to consistently say and do things that are anti-Semitic and
white racist, right?  Well, show me.



From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!sgigate!sgi!cdp!cberlet Wed Jan  6 07:38:36 PST 1993
Article: 8872 of alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!sgigate!sgi!cdp!cberlet
From: NLG Civil Liberties Committee 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Date: 05 Jan 93 18:54 PST
Subject: Re: Apology for Chip Berlet
Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway 
Message-ID: <1299600159@igc.apc.org>
References: <18DEC199223184444@acad3.alaska.e>
Nf-ID: #R:18DEC199223184444@acad3.alaska.e:29256161:cdp:1299600159:000:13645
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cberlet    Jan  5 18:54:00 1993
Lines: 299



Thanks for the apology, I'm sorry if I came on too strong, but I 
do need to defend my reputation as a journalist.

I have several concerns regarding Gritz. He is a self-promoting 
huckster. He peddles theories that promote anti-Jewish bigotry 
and create fear of immigrants. He misrepresents his ties to 
fascist and race-hate groups and his support for Christian 
Identity. He promotes lunatic theories about government 
misconduct which undermine and discredit serious research and 
criticism of government misconduct.

Many people who defend Gritz refuse to acknowledge the facts 
previously posted here. It is fair to disagree with the 
conclusions that I and other Gritz critics post. It is dishonest 
to pretend that there are no facts to support our arguments. It 
is unethical to charge broadly that assertions about Gritz have 
been disproven or are in error when this is not true. Every 
researcher makes mistakes. When I make them I post a correction 
and an apology. But I will vigorously confront persons who 
falsely claim I have made errors because they disagree with my 
conclusions. There are many persons on the computer networks who 
routinely post material of questionable validity. This is true of 
persons on both the left and right. Some of these persons are 
sincere but misguided. Others, such as many supporters of Gritz, 
the Populist Party, and the LaRouchians, are using the network to 
create a mass base for fascism. One of they key tools of fascist 
political movements is the use of conspiracy theories to create 
scapegoats on which to blame societal problems. That's why I take 
the time to post material on computer networks, including a forum 
devoted to conspiracy theories.

As promised, here is the full unedited text of my current press 
biography and list of lecture topics. 

Chip Berlet

Biographical Information

Political Research Associates
678 Massachusetts Avenue, Suite 702
Cambridge, MA 02139

Chip Berlet is an analyst with Political Research Associates, a 
non-profit institute studying authoritarian, anti-democratic, 
right-wing, and xenophobic political movements. Berlet has spent 
twenty years as an investigator, journalist and photographer 
focusing on civil rights and civil liberties.

He is a much-quoted expert on a variety of right-wing political 
movements, including the neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, Posse 
Comitatus, Aryan Nations, racist Skinheads, Liberty Lobby, John 
Birch Society, the New Right, right-wing spy networks, Cold War 
paranoid groups, the Lyndon LaRouche fascist cult, and left-wing 
groups with authoritarian hierarchies such as the National Labor 
Federation and the New Alliance Party. He has attended meetings 
of neo-Nazis, the Ku Klux Klan, Holocaust revisionists, and white 
supremacists, and confronted the leaders of these groups on radio 
and television talk shows, including a memorable exchange with 
the white nationalist pro-Aryan Nations minister Bob Miles on the 
Oprah Winfrey program.

As a civil rights activist Berlet has helped neighborhood, 
community and political groups fight back attempts by organized 
hate groups to inflame tensions. He was among the first 
researchers to warn of the attempt by anti-Jewish race-hate 
groups to recruit financially-strapped Midwest farmers in the 
late 1970s and early 1980's. A persistent critic of Lyndon 
LaRouche, Berlet has been sued twice by the LaRouchians for his 

characterization of them as a conspiracist neo-Nazi political 
movement engaged in illegal fundraising schemes and run by a 
lunatic cult leader. The LaRouchians eventually lost both cases.

In 1987, Berlet and his collegues received the Chicago Citizens 
Alert Award for advancing racial justice through educational 
efforts exposing farm belt bigotry, organized hate group activity 
in Chicago neighborhoods, and the growth of the neo-Nazi skinhead 
movement.

His work exposing threats to civil liberties has covered 
censorship, police misconduct, government surveillance, right 
wing surveillance operations, covert action, and the 
relationships among those phenomena. Berlet is a former vice-
president of the National Lawyers Guild and currently serves as 
Secretary of the NLG's Civil Liberties Committee. He works 
closely with the National Committee Against Repressive 
Legislation and serves on the board of advisors to the Chicago-
based Bill of Rights Foundation. In 1979 he helped organize 
national citizens hearings on FBI surveillance abuses.

Before joining Political Research Associates in 1982, Berlet 
spent three years as a paralegal investigator at the Better 
Government Association in Chicago, engaged in research and trial 
preparation for the American Civil Liberties Union lawsuit 
against illegal government surveillance by the Chicago Police 
Intelligence Unit--litigation dubbed the "Chicago Red 
Squad" case. He has also served as a paralegal on other 
intelligence abuse and civil liberties cases filed against local 
police, the FBI, CIA and Military Intelligence on behalf of 
groups such as the Spanish Action Committee of Chicago, National 
Lawyers Guild, American Indian Movement, Socialist Workers Party, 
Christic Institute, and American Friends Service Committee.

As a freelance writer, Berlet has written, edited, and co-
authored a long list of material on right-wing activity, racism, 
prejudice, anti-Jewish conspiracy theories, government 
repression, covert operations, and constitutional rights, 
including articles in the The Boston Globe, Chicago Sun-Times, 
Des Moines Register, Mother Jones, The Nation, The Progressive, 
Chicago Reader, Chicago Lawyer, The Humanist, Greenpeace 
Magazine, Boston Phoenix, Pacific News Service, The Guardian 
(NY), WIN Magazine, In These Times, Boston Real Paper, 
CovertAction Information Bulletin, National Reporter, Liberation 
News Service, High Times, and Utne Reader.

An award-winning photo-journalist, Berlet's pictures have 
appeared on book, magazine, and record album covers, been carried 
on the Associated Press wire, and been published in periodicals 
such as the Denver Post, Washington Star, and Chronicle of Higher 
Education. He is a member of the National Writers Union.

A co-founder and member of the editorial board of the legal 
newsletter Police Misconduct and Civil Rights Law Report, 
published by Clark Boardman, Co. of New York; Berlet has 
previously been contributing editor of Public Eye magazine, co-
founder of the College Press Service collective in Denver, and 
for many years was on the board of directors of the Alternative 
Press Syndicate. 

Berlet has spoken widely on right-wing groups and governmental 
civil liberties infringements at forums ranging from speeches at 
rallies and meetings, to sermons at local churches and temples, 
to workshops at local and national conventions. His college 
campus appearances include presentations at Harvard, Boston 
University, and the University of Massachusetts at Amherst; and 

classroom lectures at the University of Chicago, George 
Washington University, and Florida State University. 

Publications which have reported Berlet's views include The New 
York Times, Newsweek and The Boston Globe. He has appeared on a 
live interview with co-host Bryant Gumbel on NBC Television's 
Today Show, and on numerous taped interviews on major television 
network evening news programs including NBC, ABC, CBS, and CNN. 
He has been interviewed for National Public Radio's All Things 
Considered program, Terry Gross's Fresh Air interview program on 
NPR, and Pacifica Radio Network News, and many other radio news 
and talk show programs.

Berlet has been a persistent activist on issues involving access 
to media and information policies, and has authored critiques 
appearing in Library Quarterly, Extra!, Alternative Media Review, 
More Magazine, and TUM: the Colorado Journalism Review. He 
represented the Chicago Citizens Commission on the Media at 
hearings establishing Chicago's cable television franchise where 
he played a key role in increasing community access and 
governance provisions in the authorizing statute.

He co-founded and still runs a computer bulletin board designed 
to challenge the information circulated by racist and anti-Jewish 
bulletin boards; and to provide information on civil rights and 
civil liberties, including a kit for requesting information under 
the federal Freedom of Information Act.

In the 1970's Berlet co-edited a series of books on student press 
rights, campus activism, student financial aid, and higher 
education policy for the National Student Association and 
National Student Educational Fund.

Berlet was born in 1949, was raised in New Jersey where he became 
active in the civil rights movement as a teenager, and has lived 
and worked in Denver, Colorado, Washington, D.C., and Chicago, 
Illinois. He currently resides with his wife and son in a suburb 
of Boston . 

====================

Political Research Associates (formerly Midwest Research) is an 
independent, not-for-profit research center which monitors the 
organizations, individuals, and activities of the American 
political right wing and initiates anti-right organizing 
projects. Our purpose is to serve as an information clearinghouse 
providing archival information on the right wing, including links 
among right-wing groups, financing behind right-wing activities, 
and analysis of right-wing movements, and to serve as an 
"early warning system" for those who need to know about 
emerging trends and developments. PRA's director is Dr. Jean 
Hardisty, a former political science professor. The full-time 
staff includes analyst Chip Berlet, researcher Margaret Quigley, 
a graduate of Harvard Law School, and archivist Francine Davis.

====================

Chip Berlet
Prepared Lectures for 1992
Racism, Fascism and the Far Right:

Moral choices in defense of pluralistic democracy 

Since the end of World War Two and the fight against Fascism, 
there have been several domestic U.S. political movements which 
echo Nazi-era themes of racial superiority, ultra-nationalism, 

and xenophobia. What are these movements, how do they differ and 
interact? What is Nativism? Who were the original America 
Firsters? What advisor to Oliver Stone's film "JFK" is tied to 
pro-Nazi elements? What moral obligations do we have, as citizens 
of a pluralistic democracy, to break the silence and speak out on 
behalf of the victims of racist and fascist movements? Resources: 
Hanna Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem (book).

Concentration Camps to Contragate:

Nazis, Anti-Communism, and the National Security State
How obsessive Cold War anti-communism led to an alliance with former 
Nazi collaborators and the development of the National Security State 
with its emphasis on militarism and covert action abroad, and secrecy 
and repression at home. Why Contragate was merely the latest round 
in this fight. The role of Nazi collaborators in the 1988 Bush campaign. 
Why the National Endowment for Democracy is misnamed. The role of 
the "Imperial Presidency," and bi-partisanship.

Secular Humanism Phobia:
The right-wing conspiracy theory of the world.

Is modern art part of a secular humanist conspiracy to destroy 
traditional family values? No. But these people think so. The 
attack on the National Endowment for the Arts explained as part 
of a widely-held right-wing theory of one-world creeping 
socialism.

The White Racist Alliance:
Scapegoating and fear mongering in troubled areas

Case studies of how a coalition of white supremecist groups tried 
to exploit fear in the farm belt, the rust belt, and urban 
neighborhoods struggling with integration. How those communities 
fought back. Why a policy of not publicizing organizing drives 
and incidents by racial hate groups often backfires. Update on 
current Ku Klux Klan and white supremacist organizing.

The Hunt for Red Menace:
The FBI's discredited justifications for political spying

A serious (yet humorous) talk on how the FBI has repackaged 
discredited "McCarthy Period" theories of subversion, 
manipulated fears of "terrorism," and employed a paranoid 
analysis of the U.S. social change movement, all in an attempt to 
justify its violation of constitutional rights through 
surveillance and harassment of dissidents. The new attacks on the 
environmental movement. The role of right-wing private spy 
networks, and hysterial anti-communism. Resources: Emile 
D'Antonio, Point of Order (film).

LaRouche 's Authoritarian Agenda:
Fascism wrapped in an American flag

Lyndon LaRouche is more than a lunatic crook and "perennial 
presidential candidate"; and neither a Marxist nor 
"extreme conservative" as the media like to call him. 
LaRouche is the quintessential Fascist demagogue who has built a 
sophisticated high-tech electronic spy network to help propel him 
into power. 

Other topics:

The New Alliance Party:

How the NAP uses totalitarianism as a political style. What is the 

therapy cult behind the NAP?

Media Myopia and Informed Consent:

Self-governance in the age of the thirty-second sound bite. What 
was president James Madison's warning?

Racism and Anti-Semitism:

Defining the terms, expanding the debate. Theories of prejudice, bigotry 
and scapegoating.

Civil Liberties Threat of the New Right:

Self-righteous Nativism versus democratic pluralism.

Debunking Conspiracy Theories:

There was no "Secret Team" behind Iran Contragate, the "Octopus 
Theory" is all wet, George Bush's New World Order is not part 
of a clandestine para-government run by Yale's "Skull and Bones" 
society. An appeal to reason and logic.







From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cj195 Sat Jan  9 19:43:31 PST 1993
Article: 9009 of alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cj195
From: cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Date: 10 Jan 1993 02:57:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <1io3aoINNrb4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Reply-To: cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


With Steve Crocker I too would like to see any evidence you have that Bo
Gritz is wrong about top government officials being involved in drug
trafficking for the purpose of financing covert operations.

And just dismissing Gritz as a crackpot or lunatic doesn't really prove
he isn't telling the truth.

Tell us, Chip.  You are probably the most knowledgable contributor to
this newsgroup (although much of your knowledge may be false).  Is it
certain that Bo Gritz is wrong about this?  How can we be sure?


-- 


--------- All my opinions are tentative pending further data. ---------
------------ John W. Redelfs, cj195@cleveland.Freenet.edu -------------


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cj195 Mon Jan 11 07:12:00 PST 1993
Article: 9031 of alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cj195
From: cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Date: 11 Jan 1993 10:55:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
References: <1993Jan11.090412.20205@midway.uchicago.edu> <1io3aoINNrb4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Reply-To: cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


>>And just dismissing Gritz as a crackpot or lunatic doesn't really prove
>>he isn't telling the truth.
>
>Given that Gritz has been wrong about everything that is checkable,
>what makes you think he's truthful about this one?  Especially when
>Gritz has *no* evidence of his claims.
>
>Gritz is just a con-man trying to get money out of you the way he
>got money out of Ross Perot.
>-- 
>ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
>standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
>the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637

I think you may be right, Ted, but I just don't know.  I'd like a little
more to go on than your say-so.  Where did you get this information?
Except for some pretty solid stuff that I've received from Chip Berlet
establishing that he's associated with some pretty seedy characters a
while back, I've found verifiable information about Gritz pretty hard to
come by.

It would sure help me if someone could document some lies he's told, some
crimes he's committed, or some anti-Semitic/white racist things he's
said in his writings or speeches.  Most of what I've heard seems to be rant
that is unsubstantiated from his political enemies, not exactly an
unbiased source.

In fact, if Gritz is the Jew hating white racist liar his enemies say
he is, I'm surprised the net isn't just loaded with such documentation.

Calling someone a villian doesn't make him one unless he's actually done
or said something wrong.  Ideology alone doesn't make someone a villian.
Neither does knowing scum unless he is one of them.

How can we know for sure that Gritz is a liar?  How can we know for sure
that he is a anti-Semitic white racist?  To be sure, we need more than
just a lot of people saying he is these things.  Rumors and gossip
aren't evidence.

I understand that he once wrote that some of the families that own the
Federal Reserve are Jewish.  Is saying this anti-Semitic?  It seems to
me that such would be the case only if he said these Jews were evil
BECAUSE they are Jewish or if it's not true.  If a bank is owned by a
Mormon family, does saying so make one an anti-Mormon?  Some people
define anti-Semitism so broadly that almost nobody can escape the
appellation unless he is Jewish.

If anyone can produce SUBSTANTIAL evidence that Bo Gritz is either
anti-Semitic or white racist as I define those terms, I will turn away
from him in total disgust.

Afterall my wife and three children are mestizo and I have Jewish
ancestry that I am very proud of.  I detest anti-Semites and white
racists.

Oddly enough, I have never seen convincing evidence that Bo Gritz is
either.

-- 


--------- All my opinions are tentative pending further data. ---------
------------ John W. Redelfs, cj195@cleveland.Freenet.edu -------------


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2 Wed Jan 13 07:21:34 PST 1993
Article: 9103 of alt.conspiracy
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: <1993Jan12.225049.25135@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <1io3aoINNrb4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993Jan11.090412.20205@midway.uchicago.edu> <1isua5INNhec@im4u.cs.utexas.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:50:49 GMT
Lines: 43

In article <1isua5INNhec@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> lwb@cs.utexas.edu (Lance W. Bledsoe) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.090412.20205@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>Given that Gritz has been wrong about everything that is checkable,
>>what makes you think he's truthful about this one?  Especially when
>>Gritz has *no* evidence of his claims.
>
>I'm sorry, you're wrong.  I've seen MUCH evidence of Bo's claims.  With
>reguard to the CIA drug running charges; I have a videotape of Bo Gritz
>interviewing Burmese drug lords that flatly identify their contacts in
>the US as former CIA and state department officials.

And what evidence do you have that the person he interviewed was a 
"Burmese drug lord"?

>>Gritz is just a con-man trying to get money out of you the way he
>>got money out of Ross Perot.
>
>I don't think that Bo Gritz ever go any money from Perot.  

False.  Do a database search.  Perot was quite proud of his support
for Gritz before he became a presidential candidate.

>And if
>he did it was probablly to help find POWs in Southeast Asia.

Well, that's what Gritz told the families of MIA's that he ripped off,
yes.  Then he had a nice cock-and-bull story about how he "infiltrated"
across a river border that didn't exist, found actual "camps", and
as evidence produced "human remains" that turned out to be pig bones.

Gritz is a con-man, and a dangerous one at that, given his anti-Semitism.

>The problem is not people like Gritz, who dedicate their lives trying to
>keep us all free, but people like you that spread misinformation.

And what misinformation is this?  You're talking from bald assertions
and faked videotapes.  I have facts on my side.  Look up this stuff.
Use your goddammed head.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2 Wed Jan 13 07:22:51 PST 1993
Article: 9104 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9104 soc.culture.jewish:19577 alt.revisionism:1188
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: <1993Jan12.230503.25883@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <1993Jan11.090412.20205@midway.uchicago.edu> <1io3aoINNrb4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:05:03 GMT
Lines: 88

In article <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes:
>I think you may be right, Ted, but I just don't know.  I'd like a little
>more to go on than your say-so.  Where did you get this information?

Public knowledge.  Look it up.  Do a database search.  It's not hidden;
a newspaper or three will do an article on Gritz fairly often.

>Except for some pretty solid stuff that I've received from Chip Berlet
>establishing that he's associated with some pretty seedy characters a
>while back, I've found verifiable information about Gritz pretty hard to
>come by.

There was a recent good book published about MIA-con-men in general,
part of it was excerpted in the January 1991 _Atlantic_.

>Calling someone a villian doesn't make him one unless he's actually done
>or said something wrong.  Ideology alone doesn't make someone a villian.

I disagree with the latter statement.  At what point did Hitler become
a villian?  Do we have to wait for the first Jews to enter the camps?

>How can we know for sure that Gritz is a liar?  How can we know for sure
>that he is a anti-Semitic white racist?  To be sure, we need more than
>just a lot of people saying he is these things.  Rumors and gossip
>aren't evidence.
>
>I understand that he once wrote that some of the families that own the
>Federal Reserve are Jewish.  Is saying this anti-Semitic?  

Yes.  Why?

1) It's false.  The Federal Reserve is owned and fully controlled 
   by the United States government.  

2) It's a clear appeal to anti-Semites to join him, guised in such
   language so that people like you are willing to dismiss charges
   of anti-Semitism.  The idea of a conspiracy being led by "Jewish
   bankers" is over a century old, and has been told by anti-Semites
   on at least four or five different continents.  And never has it 
   been true.

3) Let's assume counterfactually for a second that the FRB *was*
   controlled by Jews.  What purpose does it serve to note that 
   some government officials happen to be of a particular religion?  
   Of what relevance is it, if not to cast aspersions on them for 
   their religion?

>It seems to
>me that such would be the case only if he said these Jews were evil
>BECAUSE they are Jewish or if it's not true.  If a bank is owned by a
>Mormon family, does saying so make one an anti-Mormon?  Some people
>define anti-Semitism so broadly that almost nobody can escape the
>appellation unless he is Jewish.

Gritz is making a false claim that Jews have control over the 
world that they don't.  Once again -- what is the relevance of it?
Why build a campaign plank against it?  Why accept support from
*overt* blatant anti-Semites like Willis Carto?  Why banking,
if not to appeal to the old canards of the International Jewish
Banking Conspiracy?

>If anyone can produce SUBSTANTIAL evidence that Bo Gritz is either
>anti-Semitic or white racist as I define those terms, I will turn away
>from him in total disgust.
>
>Afterall my wife and three children are mestizo and I have Jewish
>ancestry that I am very proud of.  I detest anti-Semites and white
>racists.
>
>Oddly enough, I have never seen convincing evidence that Bo Gritz is
>either.

I'm sorry you feel that way.  What evidence would you require, aside
from a willingness to be on the same ticket as David Duke, accepting
funding from Willis Carto, and making false accusations reminiscent of
"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"?  David Duke never stands up and
says "I hate blacks," and Bo Gritz is never going to stand up and
say "I hate Jews" -- he's always going to phrase his anti-Semitism in 
terms of supporting groups that think the Holocaust is a hoax and
in campaign literature where he speaks of the need to stop "Jewish bankers." 

I hope, for your sake, if Gritz does come to power, that your Jewish
ancestry dates back more than three generations.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!uunet!news.mtholyoke.edu!jyanowit Wed Jan 13 07:23:21 PST 1993
Article: 9114 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9114 soc.culture.jewish:19584 alt.revisionism:1190
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!uunet!news.mtholyoke.edu!jyanowit
From: jyanowit@mtholyoke.edu (Jason Yanowitz)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Date: 13 Jan 1993 00:35:53 -0500
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
Lines: 20
Sender: news@mtholyoke.edu
Message-ID: <1j09npINN25m@slab.mtholyoke.edu>
References: <1993Jan11.090412.20205@midway.uchicago.edu> <1io3aoINNrb4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993Jan12.230503.25883@midway.uchicago.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slab.mtholyoke.edu

The notion that Bo Gritz isn't a racist, anti-semitic, sexist pig
is grounded in a skewed sense of reality.  He's the head of the Populist
Party, a proto-fascist/extreme right-wing organization that's based
in the Mid-West (they try to get farmers on their side, a la the old
Populist Party.  guess who they attack a lot -- that's right, the 
the "Jewish-controlled banking system").  To question Chip Berlet's
scholarship ad hominem (sp) is a pathetic move.  PLEASE do a little
research into these people (and even if you dislike Chip Berlet, his
assessment of Bo Gritz is certainly accurate).

I'd apologize for using the bandwidth, but the notion that Bo Gritz is
anything other than bigot must be stopped -- he and his ilk are gaining
ground in the Mid-West, after all.


-- 

Jason Yanowitz                | PGP 2.0 key available via fingering and email.
jyanowit@orixa.mtholyoke.edu  | [Space currently vacant].
"A pox on Columbus" -- Bernstein, in the file _Hester Street_ 


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!emory!genie!rich Wed Jan 13 07:23:41 PST 1993
Article: 9118 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9118 soc.culture.jewish:19595 alt.revisionism:1191
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!emory!genie!rich
From: rich@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Rich Schwartzman)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: <1993Jan13.084313.11145@genie.slhs.udel.edu>
Keywords: Clarification
Organization: Sometimes
References: <1io3aoINNrb4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993Jan12.230503.25883@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 08:43:13 GMT
Lines: 48

In article <1993Jan12.230503.25883@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
}In article <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes:
}>I think you may be right, Ted, but I just don't know.  I'd like a little
}>more to go on than your say-so.  Where did you get this information?
}
}Public knowledge.  Look it up.  Do a database search.  It's not hidden;
}a newspaper or three will do an article on Gritz fairly often.
}
}>Except for some pretty solid stuff that I've received from Chip Berlet
}>establishing that he's associated with some pretty seedy characters a
}>while back, I've found verifiable information about Gritz pretty hard to
}>come by.
}
}There was a recent good book published about MIA-con-men in general,
}part of it was excerpted in the January 1991 _Atlantic_.
}
}>Calling someone a villian doesn't make him one unless he's actually done
}>or said something wrong.  Ideology alone doesn't make someone a villian.
}
}I disagree with the latter statement.  At what point did Hitler become
}a villian?  Do we have to wait for the first Jews to enter the camps?
}
}>How can we know for sure that Gritz is a liar?  How can we know for sure
}>that he is a anti-Semitic white racist?  To be sure, we need more than
}>just a lot of people saying he is these things.  Rumors and gossip
}>aren't evidence.
}>
}>I understand that he once wrote that some of the families that own the
}>Federal Reserve are Jewish.  Is saying this anti-Semitic?  
}
}Yes.  Why?
}
}1) It's false.  The Federal Reserve is owned and fully controlled 
}   by the United States government.  
}

Just for clarification, the Federal Reserve is a group of privately owned
banks, not part of the federal government.


-- 
   ---------------------------------------------
  | Richard B. Schwartzman, RBS Communications  |
  |  Media Coordinator, DE. Libertarian Party   |
  |         rich@genie.slhs.udel.edu            |
  |              (302) 455-0354                 |
   ---------------------------------------------



From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!dsegard Wed Jan 13 21:03:29 PST 1993
Article: 9125 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9125 soc.culture.jewish:19617 alt.revisionism:1192
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!dsegard
From: dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Segard)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: <1993Jan13.153550.26330@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <1io3aoINNrb4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.C
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 15:35:50 GMT
Lines: 59


 thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
 >>I understand that he once wrote that some of the families that own the
 >>Federal Reserve are Jewish.  Is saying this anti-Semitic?
 >
 > Yes.  Why?
 >
 > 1) It's false.  The Federal Reserve is owned and fully controlled
 >    by the United States government.

       The Federal Reserve is one thing which we here about over and over
again by the neo-nazi types.  Much of this I believe relates directly back
to Eustice Mullins, who has already been discussed at length here and is a
known neo-nazi, anti-semetic, new age flake.
       To counter Mullins' charges about the Federal Reserve being
privately owned (charges which are also claimed by Lyndon Larouch and
others), it seems to me that it would be a good idea to provide a quick
overview in the FAQ about how the Federal Reserve bank is actually run.
The flakes have lots of interesting "stories" which they tell about the FR:
supposedly owned by Jews, or controled by the banking community of London,
or that the value of the dollar is set daily by the street value of heroin
in Hong Kong, etc.  But obviously none of these funny stories would compare
to some good solid documentation on what branch of the government actually
controls the FR, how their policy is set, who appoints the people who
control the FR, etc.

 >2) It's a clear appeal to anti-Semites to join him, guised in such
 >   language so that people like you are willing to dismiss charges
 >   of anti-Semitism.  The idea of a conspiracy being led by "Jewish
 >   bankers" is over a century old, and has been told by anti-Semites
 >   on at least four or five different continents.  And never has it
 >   been true.

      The Federal Reserve only dates back to like 1918 or somewhere in
there.  But yes, the stories go back much further.  The actual roots go all
the way back to the Dark Ages, and it is good to point out exactly *why*
the Jews were involved in banking back then.  The problem can be laid
squarely on the door of the Christian Church.  They prohibited all Gentiles
from loaning money, they severely restricted what trades Jews could be
involved in; and as a result many Jews were involved in loaning money at
interest.  How much any of these "Jewish bankers" communicated with each
other might be anybody's guess.  But even if they were setting interest
rates as a group I don't know that this would qualify as being a
"conspiracy".

 >3) Let's assume counterfactually for a second that the FRB *was*
 >   controlled by Jews.  What purpose does it serve to note that
 >   some government officials happen to be of a particular religion?
 >   Of what relevance is it, if not to cast aspersions on them for
 >   their religion?

       When the flakes start taking potshots at Jews, you will find that
they pay very little attention to the question of whether the "Jew" in
question is religiously observant or not.  If they find that a person whom
they want to attack has any Jewish ancestory anywhere in their background,
they automatically paint that person as a Jew and then paint all Jewish
people as being like the one person.  Bigotry by any other name....




From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!dsegard Wed Jan 13 21:03:38 PST 1993
Article: 9128 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9128 soc.culture.jewish:19623 alt.revisionism:1193
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!dsegard
From: dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Segard)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: <1993Jan13.154811.2262@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: Clarification
Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993Jan12.230503.25883@mi
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 15:48:11 GMT
Lines: 20


  rich@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Rich Schwartzman) writes:

 >}>I understand that he once wrote that some of the families that own the
 >}>Federal Reserve are Jewish.  Is saying this anti-Semitic?
 >}
 >}Yes.  Why?
 >}
 >}1) It's false.  The Federal Reserve is owned and fully controlled
 >}   by the United States government.
 >}
 >
 > Just for clarification, the Federal Reserve is a group of
 > privately owned banks, not part of the federal government.

         Okay, we have some apparent disagreement here.  Which of you is
correct?  (Naturally I expect both of you to raise your hand and say "I'm
right", therefore documentation would be good.)




From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!genie!rich Wed Jan 13 21:03:50 PST 1993
Article: 9132 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9132 soc.culture.jewish:19642 alt.revisionism:1194
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!genie!rich
From: rich@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Rich Schwartzman)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: <1993Jan13.184224.21869@genie.slhs.udel.edu>
Keywords: Clarification
Organization: Sometimes
References: <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993Jan12.230503.25883@mi <1993Jan13.154811.2262@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 18:42:24 GMT
Lines: 38

In article <1993Jan13.154811.2262@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Segard) writes:
}
}  rich@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Rich Schwartzman) writes:
}
} >}>I understand that he once wrote that some of the families that own the
} >}>Federal Reserve are Jewish.  Is saying this anti-Semitic?
} >}
} >}Yes.  Why?
} >}
} >}1) It's false.  The Federal Reserve is owned and fully controlled
} >}   by the United States government.
} >}
} >
} > Just for clarification, the Federal Reserve is a group of
} > privately owned banks, not part of the federal government.
}
}         Okay, we have some apparent disagreement here.  Which of you is
}correct?  (Naturally I expect both of you to raise your hand and say "I'm
}right", therefore documentation would be good.)

In a 1966 essay titled Gold and Economic Freedom, Alan Greenspan, the
current head of the FED, states the ownership of the Federal Reserve is by
a group of private banks.

soc.culture.jewish is not the place for a discourse on secular philosophy,
but the essay can be found in Ayn Rand's Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.

Peace and Liberty,


-- 
   ---------------------------------------------
  | Richard B. Schwartzman, RBS Communications  |
  |  Media Coordinator, DE. Libertarian Party   |
  |         rich@genie.slhs.udel.edu            |
  |              (302) 455-0354                 |
   ---------------------------------------------



From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cj195 Wed Jan 13 21:17:53 PST 1993
Article: 9138 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9138 alt.activism:14929
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cj195
From: cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
Subject: Flakes and the FED
Date: 13 Jan 1993 21:58:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <1j23aaINNnsn@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Reply-To: cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Are right-wing conspiracy types all flakes, or only some of them?  Are
there any Jewish flakes?  What makes someone a flake?

I asked a few honest questions about Bo Gritz, the Federal Reserve Board
and I received massive retaliation lumping me in with neo-Nazi white
racist anti-Semitic "flakes."

Well, the truth is hard enough to figure out without a lot of name
calling and emotional cant containing zero useful information.

If this is typical leftist, pro-Jewish rhetoric, no wonder the right is
growing so rapidly in this country.
-- 


--------- All my opinions are tentative pending further data. ---------
------------ John W. Redelfs, cj195@cleveland.Freenet.edu -------------


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!dsegard Wed Jan 13 22:32:44 PST 1993
Article: 9139 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9139 soc.culture.jewish:19667 alt.revisionism:1195
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!dsegard
From: dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Segard)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: <1993Jan13.220010.15692@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: Clarification
Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <1993Jan12.230503.25883@mi <1993Jan13.154811.2262@mnemosyne.c
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 22:00:10 GMT
Lines: 33


 rich@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Rich Schwartzman) writes:

 >} > Just for clarification, the Federal Reserve is a group of
 >} > privately owned banks, not part of the federal government.
 >}
 >}         Okay, we have some apparent disagreement here.  Which of you is
 >}correct?  (Naturally I expect both of you to raise your hand and say
"I'm
 >}right", therefore documentation would be good.)
 >
 > In a 1966 essay titled Gold and Economic Freedom, Alan Greenspan,
 > the current head of the FED, states the ownership of the Federal
 > Reserve is by a group of private banks.

       Well, he would certainly be in a position to know.  I wonder what
those "private banks" are and who actually controls them.  (Maybe it will
be Anglicans...  )

 > soc.culture.jewish is not the place for a discourse on secular
 > philosophy, but the essay can be found in Ayn Rand's Capitalism: The
 > Unknown Ideal.

        Sorry about that, I was reading alt.revisionism when I wrote the
followup.  Looking more carefully I see that it is going to scj as well as
alt.conspiracy.  (And if we are going to get into a discussion of a bunch
of private banks running the Federal Reserve then alt.conspiracy would
probably be a reasonable place to have this cross-posted to.)
       I don't have the ability to set the followup with this editor, so if
anyone else is following up this article, please remove scj from the
distribution. Thanks.




From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2 Thu Jan 14 07:18:24 PST 1993
Article: 14967 of alt.activism
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9168 alt.activism:14967
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Flakes and the FED
Message-ID: <1993Jan14.041150.22420@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <1j23aaINNnsn@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 04:11:50 GMT
Lines: 43

In article <1j23aaINNnsn@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes:
>
>Are right-wing conspiracy types all flakes, or only some of them?  Are
>there any Jewish flakes?  What makes someone a flake?

A "flake" is one who not only believes in a manifestly impossible event
against all evidence, but insists upon making it the core of his presidential
campaign.  Thus, when Bo Gritz suggests "solving" the deficit problem
by printing a four-trillion-dollar bill and giving it to the Jewish
bankers who control the Federal Reserve Bank, he qualifies for flakehood
by the sheer unreasonableness of his proposal.  I count at least four or
five complete untruths that it's based on, and could probably think of more
if I bothered.

His obsession with UPC symbols is another hint.

>I asked a few honest questions about Bo Gritz, the Federal Reserve Board
>and I received massive retaliation lumping me in with neo-Nazi white
>racist anti-Semitic "flakes."

I don't recall anyone lumping *you* with neo-Nazi white racist anti-Semitic
flakes.  Bo Gritz was lumped with neo-Nazi white racist anti-Semitic
flakes because he is a neo-Nazi white racist anti-Semitic flake.

>Well, the truth is hard enough to figure out without a lot of name
>calling and emotional cant containing zero useful information.
>
>If this is typical leftist, pro-Jewish rhetoric, no wonder the right is
>growing so rapidly in this country.

I promise you that I'm not a leftist.  I don't deny that I'm pro-Jewish,
but mostly because I don't relish the thought of Nazis coming to power in
the country I love.

I haven't engaged in any name-calling.  Name-calling implies unreasonable
insults.  I get very upset when "Nazi" gets thrown around at people who
clearly aren't Nazis, because when real Nazis like Bo Gritz come around,
then people become skeptical because of all the prior crying of wolf.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817 Thu Jan 14 07:19:59 PST 1993
Article: 9156 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9156 alt.politics.perot:7088
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817
From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: Gritz again
Date: 14 Jan 1993 01:29:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <1j2floINN6cl@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a post here Ted Frank quotes me quoting Chip Berlet on Gritz's
"Lunatic conspiracy theories". He omits the videotape transcript
in which Burmese drug lord Khun Sa names Shackley and Armitage et. al.
as drug traffickers. In another loaction Ted has referred apparently
to this tape as a "faked videotape". Why do you say this, Ted? Is it
because the tape is produced by an individual you disaprove of and
presents evidence that you think is unlikely, or do you have something
more solid to go on? Charges of deliberately faking evidence of 
wrongdoing of this magnitude are serious, and should not be made 
lightly. Plus, if this is really fake, seeing how widely it has
been circulated, why haven't Shackley or Armitage sued Gritz? And
as for Perot having Armitage followed, if Armitage is guilty of even
half of what he is accused of he darned well OUGHT to be followed, 
and more, brought to justice.

-Steve


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news-is-not-mail Thu Jan 14 07:21:16 PST 1993
Article: 9148 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9148 soc.culture.jewish:19678 alt.revisionism:1198
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news-is-not-mail
From: lwb@cs.utexas.edu (Lance W. Bledsoe)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Date: 13 Jan 1993 18:07:15 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Lines: 139
Message-ID: <1j2arjINNosr@im4u.cs.utexas.edu>
References: <1io3aoINNrb4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993Jan12.230503.25883@midway.uchicago.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan12.230503.25883@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes:
>>I think you may be right, Ted, but I just don't know.  I'd like a little
>>more to go on than your say-so.  Where did you get this information?
>
>Public knowledge.  Look it up.  Do a database search.  It's not hidden;
>a newspaper or three will do an article on Gritz fairly often.

Unfortunately, the common news sources are where Ted gets his incorrect 
information.

>
>>Except for some pretty solid stuff that I've received from Chip Berlet
>>establishing that he's associated with some pretty seedy characters a
>>while back, I've found verifiable information about Gritz pretty hard to
>>come by.
>
>There was a recent good book published about MIA-con-men in general,
>part of it was excerpted in the January 1991 _Atlantic_.

I think I will write a book about people from the university of chicago
that can't get their facts straight.  I guess you could quote from that
too.  Would it be factual?  I don't know...

>>Calling someone a villian doesn't make him one unless he's actually done
>>or said something wrong.  Ideology alone doesn't make someone a villian.
>
>I disagree with the latter statement.  At what point did Hitler become
>a villian?  Do we have to wait for the first Jews to enter the camps?

A more serious villian is one who propogates falsehoods about people, and
refuses to do enough studying to find out the truth.  See my quote
in my above mentioned book.

>>How can we know for sure that Gritz is a liar?  How can we know for sure
>>that he is a anti-Semitic white racist?  To be sure, we need more than
>>just a lot of people saying he is these things.  Rumors and gossip
>>aren't evidence.

>1) It's false.  The Federal Reserve is owned and fully controlled 
>   by the United States government.  

Oh boy, there goes your credability.  Anyone that has done ANY
research on the Federal Reserve knows it is owned by a consortium of
PRIVATE banks.  The only "control" that the US Govt has on the FED is
through an *appointed* chairman that has a tenure of 12 years.  You
obviously are way out of your sphere on knowledge on this one.

>2) It's a clear appeal to anti-Semites to join him, guised in such
>   language so that people like you are willing to dismiss charges
>   of anti-Semitism.  The idea of a conspiracy being led by "Jewish
>   bankers" is over a century old, and has been told by anti-Semites
>   on at least four or five different continents.  And never has it 
>   been true.

On considering if Bo Gritz is an anti-semite, you should consider the
source of the charges.  If Bo said that most of the owners of the Banks
that control the FED were Jewish, he would be mostly correct.  That is
just a statement of fact.  Most (all) of the Popes are Catholic. So...?
Most of the Presidents of the US were WASPS, so...?  Does that mean I
hate WASPS?  I hope not, I am one.

The fact is that the very people out to ruin thi country are the ones
trying to slander Bo Gritz.  He has started to get under their skin,
so they've started a smear campaign aginst him, just like they have
done (did) in the 60's aginst the John Birch Society.  All they need
are a lot of lies, and a bunch of gullable people to gobble them up
and spew them wherever they can. (no offense intended)

>3) Let's assume counterfactually for a second that the FRB *was*
>   controlled by Jews.  What purpose does it serve to note that 
>   some government officials happen to be of a particular religion?  
>   Of what relevance is it, if not to cast aspersions on them for 
>   their religion?

Hmmmm... There is hope.

>>It seems to
>>me that such would be the case only if he said these Jews were evil
>>BECAUSE they are Jewish or if it's not true.  If a bank is owned by a
>>Mormon family, does saying so make one an anti-Mormon?  Some people
>>define anti-Semitism so broadly that almost nobody can escape the
>>appellation unless he is Jewish.
>
>Gritz is making a false claim that Jews have control over the 
>world that they don't.  Once again -- what is the relevance of it?
>Why build a campaign plank against it?  Why accept support from
>*overt* blatant anti-Semites like Willis Carto?  Why banking,
>if not to appeal to the old canards of the International Jewish
>Banking Conspiracy?

GRITZ NEVER MADE THAT CLAIM.

Let me try again...

GRITZ NEVER MADE THAT CLAIM.

The Federal Reserve is controller by a bunch of internationalist bankers
that have only their own personal desire for power and money in mind.
SOME OF THEM HAPPEN TO BE JEWS.  So what.  

>>If anyone can produce SUBSTANTIAL evidence that Bo Gritz is either
>>anti-Semitic or white racist as I define those terms, I will turn away
>>from him in total disgust.
>>
>>Afterall my wife and three children are mestizo and I have Jewish
>>ancestry that I am very proud of.  I detest anti-Semites and white
>>racists.
>>
>>Oddly enough, I have never seen convincing evidence that Bo Gritz is
>>either.
>
>I'm sorry you feel that way.  What evidence would you require, aside
>from a willingness to be on the same ticket as David Duke, accepting
>funding from Willis Carto, and making false accusations reminiscent of
>"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"?  David Duke never stands up and
>says "I hate blacks," and Bo Gritz is never going to stand up and
>say "I hate Jews" -- he's always going to phrase his anti-Semitism in 
>terms of supporting groups that think the Holocaust is a hoax and
>in campaign literature where he speaks of the need to stop "Jewish bankers." 

"the same ticket with David Duke"?????  Give me a break.
Mabey we all should start making up lies about you.  Then you could spend
most of your time trying to refute them.  I thought that you just didn't know
what you were talking about, but now I KNOW that you are intentionally 
LYING.

>I hope, for your sake, if Gritz does come to power, that your Jewish
>ancestry dates back more than three generations.

More absolute hate and lies from the "diary of Ted Frank"...



-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Lance W. Bledsoe        lwb@im4u.cs.utexas.edu        (512) 258-0112  |
|  "Ye shall know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall make you free."         |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2 Thu Jan 14 07:21:59 PST 1993
Article: 9167 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9167 soc.culture.jewish:19714 alt.revisionism:1205
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Federal Reserve Bank and Jews
Message-ID: <1993Jan13.213303.9252@midway.uchicago.edu>
Keywords: Clarification
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993Jan12.230503.25883@mi <1993Jan13.154811.2262@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 21:33:03 GMT
Lines: 33

In article <1993Jan13.154811.2262@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Segard) writes:
>  rich@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Rich Schwartzman) writes:
>
> >}>I understand that he once wrote that some of the families that own the
> >}>Federal Reserve are Jewish.  Is saying this anti-Semitic?
> >}
> >}Yes.  Why?
> >}
> >}1) It's false.  The Federal Reserve is owned and fully controlled
> >}   by the United States government.
> >}
> > Just for clarification, the Federal Reserve is a group of
> > privately owned banks, not part of the federal government.
>
>         Okay, we have some apparent disagreement here.  Which of you is
>correct?  (Naturally I expect both of you to raise your hand and say "I'm
>right", therefore documentation would be good.)

I'm right.

You want documentation?  Check the statutes that authorize all of the
powers of the Federal Reserve Banks, 12 USC ss341 et seq.

Any power Federal Reserve Banks have is derived from these Acts 
of Congress.

Last I checked, Jews didn't control Congress, or the President, who
appoints governors to run the Federal Reserve.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!wvhorn Thu Jan 14 11:48:52 PST 1993
Article: 9188 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9188 soc.culture.jewish:19762 alt.revisionism:1209
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!wvhorn
From: wvhorn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William VanHorne)
Subject: Re: Jewish Banking History
Message-ID: <1993Jan14.170219.28643@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
References: <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.C <1993Jan13.153550.26330@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1993Jan13.212423.8935@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 17:02:19 GMT
Lines: 29

In article <1993Jan13.212423.8935@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>The urban legend that the Catholics made Jewish banking possible is
>false.  Further historical research has indicated that the reason
>the Church issued so many proclamations against "usury" was because
>they were so spectacularly unsuccessful at preventing Christians from
>charging high rates of interest.
>
>Any success Jewish bankers had came from (1) charging lower rates of
>interest, and (2) being easy to stiff, as Jewish bankers had little
>recourse from the governments of the day. 

Well, yes and no.  It was a very popular scam in the Middle Ages for a
Christian monarch to invite the Jews into his country, offering the protection
of the crown, in order to borrow *gobs* of money from them for foreign wars,
tourneys, or other aristocratic entertainments.  When he had run-up a large
tab, he would simply declare that the Jews were Enemies of Christ or The 
State, or something, kick the Jews out, and repudiate all debt.  No fuss,
no muss.  Philip IV of France was the most blatant perpetrator of this
practice, but of course he also was happy to obliterate the Christian 
Knights Templar to get at their money, so I guess you would have to call him
egalitarian in his greed.

---Bill VanHorne

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"And when the world is overcharged with inhabitants, then the last remedy is
Warre; which provideth for every man, by Victory or Death" - Hobbes "Leviathan"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!dsegard Thu Jan 14 11:49:36 PST 1993
Article: 9183 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9183 soc.culture.jewish:19750 alt.revisionism:1207
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!dsegard
From: dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Segard)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: <1993Jan14.160548.3973@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
References: <1irjn2INN549@usenet.INS.C <1993Jan13.153550.26330@mnemosyne.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 16:05:48 GMT
Lines: 52


 lwb@cs.utexas.edu (Lance W. Bledsoe) asks:

 >In article <1993Jan13.153550.26330@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
 >dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Segard) writes:
 >>       The Federal Reserve is one thing which we hear about over and
over
 >>again by the neo-nazi types.  Much of this I believe relates directly
back
 >>to Eustice Mullins, who has already been discussed at length here and
is a
 >>known neo-nazi, anti-semetic, new age flake.
 >
 > Why is it that whenever people start telling the facts about
 > tyrants that just happen to be of Jewish origin, everybody starts
 > yelling "neo-nazi", "anti-sematic" or "Jew Hater".

      I wasn't "yelling", rather I was just stating the facts.  Neither was
I claiming that all who investigate the Federal Reserve with a critical
opinion are automatically anti-semetic.  The fact remains that the neo-nazi
types are very often heard to complain of the Federal Reserve.  And as a
result many others shy away from such investigations.
      My claim that much of it is based on the works of Eustice Mullins as
a source stands.  And I stand by my description of Eustice Mullins as a
"neo-nazi, anit-semetic, new age flake" with the possible exception of the
"neo-" part.  He was backing Nazi party goals long ago enough that he could
probably qualify as being a real Nazi.

 > It seems that is is fashionable for people in this country, that
 > when faced with sombody they don't like, jump to label him as a
 > "Jew Hater".

      There are plenty of people whom I don't like, that I don't consider
to be "Jew Haters".   

 > Why can't people be just a criminal, instead of a
 > Jew-criminal.  I suspect that, if a Jew went into a fast food
 > restaurant and then shot 35 people, the person reporting the
 > story would be labeled as anit-sematic.

     Sort of would depend upon how the person reported the story.  The same
would go for a story about someone that was Christian who did similar
crimes.  If the story said something like "fundamentalist Christians, Mr
John Doe, went into a restaurant and killed 35 people today.  The rising
force of fundamentalist Christianity worries many experts", then obviously
I think you would find many Christians who were worried about that reporter
as well.  So it is the *way* in the information of the criminal's religious
affiliation is mentioned that is being questioned in such cases.  If the
reporter attempts to go from the isolated crime, to smear the group as a
whole, then that group is going to have problems with it.




From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!lanai.cs.ucla.edu!pierce Thu Jan 14 11:50:58 PST 1993
Article: 9184 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9184 alt.revisionism:1208
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!lanai.cs.ucla.edu!pierce
From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Subject: Gritz and Duke
Message-ID: <1993Jan14.161327.668@cs.ucla.edu>
Sender: usenet@cs.ucla.edu (Mr Usenet)
Nntp-Posting-Host: lanai.cs.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 16:13:27 GMT
Lines: 251

----------------------  FORWARDED POSTINGS  ----------------------------
From: cberlet@igc.apc.org (NLG Civil Liberties Committee)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Gritz - Mormon officials warn again
Message-ID: <1299600106@igc.apc.org>
Date: 9 Dec 92 03:15:00 GMT
References: <1992Dec3.054400.6335@cs.ucla.edu>

Memo from Chip Berlet
Re: Gritz and Duke

>In article , 
>"David A. Byler" cmu.edu> writes:
>>  We are given the following news by Brad Pierce:
>> 
>>>     Yet four years ago, Bo Gritz (rhymes with Knights)
>>>accepted a nomination to run for Vice-President of the United
>>>States on a ticket with "former" Ku Klux Klan grand dragon
>>>David Duke, from the Populist Party.....
>> 
>> If the article starts off with a lie, why should we trust the rest of
>> it?  Bo Gritz quit the Populist Party ticket after Duke was nominated as
>> the Presidential hopeful.  Perhaps, when these folks get their facts
>> straight for once, people might begin to take them seriously.
>> 
>> Andy Byler
>> 
>
>I think the real fleas Gritz has had to put up with are
>found in such disinformation about him that you [Byler] put into
>proper focus.  
>
>Some while back I ran a Duke/Gritz word check on
>a number of journals and never found their names connected which
>made me quite suspicious of this accusation concerning him.  The
>same check yielded quite a bit about either person separately.  I
>also asked on the net if anyone in networld had ever seen their
>names on the ballot together and got absolutely no response.  I
>despise seeing decent patriots who have had their lives on the line
>more than once maligned with such careless abandon.  Talk about
>hate speech...
>
>-Joe Gaut

Congratulations, Joe and Andy, for demonstrating that you are 
both willing to call persons with whom you disagree liars and 
disinformation spreaders while not getting your own facts
straight.

Gritz posed for pictures shaking hands with Duke after accepting the
nomination of the Populist Party as Duke's 1988 first vice-presidential
running mate. The  newspaper ran the photo along with an
interview where Gritz acknowledges he had heard about Duke's
past affiliations, but now considered him a fine pro-American.

Some weeks later, Gritz dropped off the ticket to run for local
office. It was a very long time before Gritz began to claim that
he dropped off the 1988 Populist party ticket because of Duke's
nomination. Given the photo and the interview, the claim that Gritz
dropped off the ticket as soon as he learned of Duke's nomination
is a complete fabrication.

I will send a photocopy of the Duke/Gritz photo to anyone 
who sends a stamped, self-addressed business envelope 
to my office:

Political Research Associates
678 Mass. Ave., #712 
Cambridge, MA 02139

Even "Readers Digest" has called the Populist party a 
haven for neo-Nazis and ex-klansmen. 

The Populist Party was founded by Hitler apologist Willis Carto. 

Bo Gritz is the point man in an effort to build a coalition of 
white supremacists, anti-Jewish bigots, neo-fascists, and 
paranoid gun nuts.

Gritz promotes the ideas of the Christian Identity movement, 
although he sometimes claims he is not a follower of Identity. 

Gritz has repeatedly praised and participated in Christian
Identity events, here are excerpts from his speech at a Christian
Identity meeting hosted by Identity preacher Pete Peters, a raving
anti-Jewish bigot:

Gritz:
   "I believe that the Identity Christian Movement will continue
to grow in this nation until it is able to stand self-sufficient
in spite of the government....Basically the Zionists are taking
over and we Christians are being formed into small pockets that
have to go to camps twice a year to learn what's going on....The
enemy you face today is a satanic overthrow where he would change
the United States of America, a nation under God, into USA
incorporated with King George as chariman of the board, and a
Zionist group that would rule over us as long as satan might be on
earth....I am telling you that he (God) has given us all that we
need. He's given us the likes of Pete Peters, he's given us the
likes of the Identity Christian movement."
    -Source, , Center for Democratic Renewal
    (Atlanta), December
1991, page 19.

An aide to Gritz told one Idaho newspaper that Gritz combined 
elements of Christian Identity, Mormonism and the Baptist faith.

>From The Idaho Falls , September 13, 1992 (page
B6):
 "[Our] editorial should have said that Gritz adheres to less
strident views of the Christian Identity movement. There are a
number of Christian Identity Churches. A national spokesman for
Gritz, Jack McLamb, has told Associated Press that Gritz adheres
to a blend of Christian Identity, Baptist, and LDS [Mormon]
beliefs. Whether he is a member of the LDS Church or not has not
been able to be confirmed despite repeated calls to a Gritz number
identified by an answering machine as the Center for Action. -
Editor."

Gritz: "Eight Jewish families virtually control the entire
FED--only three are American jews [sic]." "Called to Serve," page
609.

In a speech at Identity pastor Pete Peter's Colorado headquarters,
Gritz acknowledged that Peters had helped publish and distribute his 
book "Called to Serve", which is used to promote the Gritz 
presidential campaign. 

Christian Identity is a religion that sees Jews as agents of 
Satan and considers African-Americans to be sub-human. Identity 
claims the United States is the real promised land and white 
Christians are the real children of Israel. Many proponents of 
Christian Identity seek to overthrow the "Zionist 
Occupational Government" in Washington, D.C. and establish an 
exclusively white Christian nation, or at least seize the states 
of the pacific northwest. 

Gritz primarily seeks to build networks of support in reactionary 
and far-right circles. He made a presentation on "MIA/POW & 
Government Drug Dealers" at the Third Christian Heritage 
National Conference held in November of 1990 in Florida. Among 
other featured speakers were Bob Weems, Pete Peters, Col. Jack 
Mohr and other persons who promote Christian Identity. Also 
speaking were Eustace Mullins, who provided the "Total 
Conspiracy Update," and A.J. Barker, national chairman of the 
Populist Party.

Gritz claims he opposes racism and is trying to clean up the 
Populist Party. But Gritz continuously misrepresents the nature 
of the Populist Party and its ongoing leadership. An article in 
the September 1992 "Soldier of Fortune" magazine notes: 

"Gritz also said he does not know Jerry Pope, chairman of 
Kentucky's Populist Party. Pope was once a prominent figure in 
the National States Rights Party founded by racist J.B. Stoner, 
who was imprisoned for the deaths of black children in the 
bombing of a Sunday school class in Birmingham, Alabama." 
Pope and Gritz are both listed as being on the Board of Advisers 
to the Populist Action Committee run by Liberty Lobby.

The Populist Party began promoting Gritz for President in the 
summer of 1991. The banner headline in the June, 1991 issue of 
"The Populist Observer: Voice of the Populist Party" was 
"Groundswell Building For Gritz Presidential Run." Gritz 
had addressed the Populist Party national convention in May 1991. 
The following month, "The Populist Observer" ran another banner 
headline proclaiming: "Gritz Populist Party Candidacy for 
President Official!"

In a memo sent to Populist Party regulars by Chair Don Wassall, 
and signed by 11 Populist Party Executive Committee members, 
Wassall wrote that "We are reaching out to new people, and we 
have a tremendous presidential candidate in Bo Gritz." 
Campaign flyers mailed from the Populist Party headquarters are 
headlined "Bo Gritz for President...Vote Populist Party." 

In the June, 1991 issue of "The Populist Observer", Gritz wrote, 
"I call upon you as Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, 
Independent, right, left, conservative, liberal, et.al., to UNITE 
AS POPULISTS [emphasis in original] until we have our nation 
firmly back on her feet." Gritz told the audience at a July, 
1991 meeting in Palo Alto, California that they should reach out 
and attempt to recruit persons from the left. 

While Willis Carto was one of the key founders of the Populist 
Party, the Party is now under the control of Don Wassall who is 
feuding with Willis Carto and the Liberty Lobby over control of 
the movement. According to the May 1992 issue of "The Monitor", 
"Wassall's Populist Party has been forced to take a back seat 
as Gritz has cobbled together his own organization, the America 
First! Coalition."

But as the Monitor explains, "Gritz's standard stump speech 
is an amalgam of themes popular among white supremacists and 
others on the far right: the Federal Reserve System is 
unconstitutional and should be abolished and a vast conspiracy of 
"internationalists" are taking over the world."

Gritz was heavily promoted by the Carto forces as early as the 
summer of 1987 when Gritz was holding press conferences charging 
that key U.S. government officials were the "biggest 
customers" of the world's leading "drug lord," Gen. 
Khun Sa of Burma. [See: Valentine, Paul, "Media Blacks Out Drug 
Story: `Bo' Gritz Charges Conspiracy", "The Spotlight", July 
13, 1987, p. 1.]

In a January 3, 1992 letter to Willis Carto, Gritz urged the 
warring factions in the Populist Party to cease their bickering, 
and told Carto he was "seeking cooperation between you and 
your former allies." He also wrote "During my first 
meeting with Don and Phil as a Populist candidate, I expressed 
utmost concern over accountability of funds," thus clearly 
acknowledging that he considered himself the 1992 Populist Party 
candidate.

-Chip Berlet

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bz965@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Hatch)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Gritz Apologists
Date: 10 Dec 1992 03:36:44 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Message-ID: <1g6e0cINNch3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>


I find it interesting that those who attack people like Chip
Berlet often make very vague, negative assertions about the
evidence. For example, they claim to have searched far and wide
for evidence, but don't say where. I have yet to see anyone
actually prove specific factual claims by Berlet or the PART
report to be false. It seems to be rather unfair to characterize
a source as "lying" or spreading disinformation without concrete
evidence that is indepentently verifiable by others.
I would like to point out that the nominations of David Duke and 
James "Bo" Gritz as Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates
of the Populist Party were reported in the March 28, 1988 issue
of Spotlight newspaper. The articles on page 4 and 5 show a photo
of David Duke and Gritz side-by-side, firmly clasping hands after
their nominations. Gritz is quoted as saying "There is nothing in 
the Populist Party platform I don't agree with." Is there anyone
who can provide evidence (independently verifiable) that these
articles are inaccurate? 
Also, Gritz's own book mentions his connection to Identity
Christian preacher Pete Peters. More about Peters can be found in
the book The Silent Brotherhood: Inside America's Racist
Underground by Kevin Flynn and Gary Gerhardt (Free Press, 1989).

-----------------  END OF FORWARDED POSTINGS  -----------------------



From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!nucsrl!ddsw1!arf Sun Jan 17 01:10:16 PST 1993
Article: 9269 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9269 soc.culture.jewish:19900 alt.revisionism:1225
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!nucsrl!ddsw1!arf
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: 
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 05:00:23 GMT
References: <1j09npINN25m@slab.mtholyoke.edu>
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Lines: 12

jyanowit@mtholyoke.edu (Jason Yanowitz) writes:
: The notion that Bo Gritz isn't a racist, anti-semitic, sexist pig
: is grounded in a skewed sense of reality.  He's the head of the Populist
: Party, a proto-fascist/extreme right-wing organization that's based
:
Your display abject ignorance of the Populist Party.  Like all political
parties, this one occasionally picks a real ringer to head the ticket and
Grits is a first class loony put he in no way runs the party.

The simple objective of the populist party is to put the people first and
your smearing it with fascist jewhating rhetoric does not make reality
out of your igrnorant lies.


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!rpi!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2 Sun Jan 17 01:10:29 PST 1993
Article: 9270 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9270 soc.culture.jewish:19901 alt.revisionism:1226
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Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!rpi!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: <1993Jan17.055317.5456@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <1j09npINN25m@slab.mtholyoke.edu> 
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 05:53:17 GMT
Lines: 24

In article  arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>jyanowit@mtholyoke.edu (Jason Yanowitz) writes:
>: The notion that Bo Gritz isn't a racist, anti-semitic, sexist pig
>: is grounded in a skewed sense of reality.  He's the head of the Populist
>: Party, a proto-fascist/extreme right-wing organization that's based
>:
>Your display abject ignorance of the Populist Party.  Like all political
>parties, this one occasionally picks a real ringer to head the ticket and
>Grits is a first class loony put he in no way runs the party.
>
>The simple objective of the populist party is to put the people first and
>your smearing it with fascist jewhating rhetoric does not make reality
>out of your igrnorant lies.

I think Jack Schmidling's endorsement of the Populist Party is sufficient 
information to confirm its anti-Semitism. 

Of course, the Populist Party has, in the past, nominated David Duke to
be on its ticket, which should be indication enough.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bz965 Sun Jan 17 01:12:44 PST 1993
Article: 9261 of alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bz965
From: bz965@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Hatch)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Bo Gritz, Khun Sa, and Identity Christians
Date: 16 Jan 1993 23:32:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 217
Message-ID: <1ja5ucINNlkt@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


 
          GRITZ, KHUN SA, AND IDENTITY CHRISTIANS
              (Copyright 1993 Richard Hatch.)
 
 
     Lt. Col. James "Bo" Gritz is a popular figure on the 
right and among some progressives. His popularity stems from 
the tales he tells about the United States government's 
involvement in the heroin trade and his own encounters with 
heroin overlord Khun Sa. 
 
     Less widely known is Gritz's long-time coalition work 
with organized racist groups.  Gritz launched his Khun Sa 
publicity project with financial and tactical assistance 
from Pastor Pete Peters' "Identity" Christian organization. 
"Identity" Christianity is the white supremacist "religious" 
credo of the Aryan Nations movement. Over the years Gritz 
has maintained significant collaborative relations with the 
white supremacist movement and with some of the far-right 
tax protestors who also adhere to "Identity" Christianity.
 
     The following is a summary of Bo Gritz's working 
relationship within the "Identity" Christian movement. 
 
 
                   Gritz in His Own Words
 
     In Gritz's most recent book _Called to Serve_[Lazarus 
Publishing Company, 1991], he tells of a trip to the annual 
summer encampment of Colorado Christian "Identity" Pastor 
Pete Peters:
 
     "Claudia [Gritz's wife] thought it was a good idea 
     if we took a week off and attended a Christian 
     encampment in Colorado. I had been invited by Pastor 
     Pete Peters as a "mystery" speaker. I thought it would 
     be good to breathe clean Rocky Mountain air and relax 
     for a while. I could sketch out a battle plan and go to 
     work with a clear head...
 
     The camp was a delight. We met a super singing group, 
     Barry, Anne, & Danny Byrd (The Watchmen), and a man 
     named Rudy Proctor...
 
     After my talk at the Peter's camp, the pastor and a 
     committee of deacons came to visit me in Las Vegas. 
     They wanted to help by sending a tape recorded message 
     and press release to every radio station and newspaper 
     in the country. Satisfied that I was serious about 
     pursuing Khun Sa's offer until we had run those 
     implicated in the government to ground, Proctor paid 
     for the mail-out. I probably did 300 separate radio 
     shows." 
     [Called to Serve, pg. 485-486]
 
     Peters is a well-known Christian Identity preacher 
whose radio programs can be heard across the US. On a 
program aired on California station KPLA (770AM) on December 
6, 1992, Peters promoted his pamphlet _A Scriptural 
Understanding of the Race Issue_. Peters has been promoting 
this particular pamphlet for some time. For those of you not 
fortunate enough to own a collection of Peters' literature, 
you may read some basic facts concerning his La Porte, 
Colorado church in _The Silent Brotherhood: Inside America's 
Racist Underground_, by Kevin Flynn and Gary Gerhardt [The 
Free Press, 1989, for page numbers, see the index under 
Laporte, Colorado]. 
 
     Typical of Peters' literature are the following quotes 
from Cheri Peters' [Pete's wife] _For Women Only_ column: 
 
     Dr. Ruth Westheimer is not only a grave threat to our 
     used-to-be American decency, but I hope God someday 
     allows us to put a millstone around her neck and cast 
     her into the sea!...
 
     I believe and teach that infidelity and homosexuality 
     are worthy of death and inter-racial marriage is a 
     blasphemy not only to Jesus Christ but our race."
 
     [_Scriptures for America_ September 1987 pg 15.]
 
     "Now the 80's generation is here, and with it the total 
     destruction of society. A society of disease-ridden, 
     brain burned out idolatrous mongrels! WE ARE THE PEOPLE 
     OF THE WORLD, A PEOPLE OF MIXED BREEDS OF PEPSI 
     LOVERS!! (I wonder if they have tried breeding dogs and 
     cats together for that commercial. They have every 
     mixture together.)"
 
     [_Scriptures for America_ October/November 1987 pg 15.]
 
     At the camp the year before Gritz attended, the major 
event was a ceremonious signing of the "Remnant Resolves," a 
Christian Identity pledge. In the final version of the 
pledge, published and distributed to Pete Peters' mailing 
list, the pledge declares that:
 
 
      "Inter-racial marriage pollutes the integrity of the 
     family." [_The Remnant Resolves_ document, not dated] 
 
 
This pledge was signed by various Identity Christian leaders 
including Barry Byrd, a musician with the "super singing 
group" Gritz referred to in _Called to Serve_. 
 
Among the literature Pete Peters distributes is the spurious 
_Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion_.
 
     In a "Scriptures for America" newsletter, Peters  
refers to the success of the "Bo Gritz project," and 
highlights the  establishment of Gritz's Centers for Action 
in 47 states and the extensive media coverage Gritz received 
for his drug story. [_Scriptures for America_ Volume VI, 
1989, pg. 1] 
 
     Regardless of whether Gritz retained control of his own 
media efforts, what is clear is that Gritz launched the Khun 
Sa media blitz in collaboration with Christian Identity 
activists who viewed Gritz's efforts as a success. It was 
Identity encampment participant Rudy Proctor who paid for 
Gritz's initial publicity campaign, which won him national 
attention. Gritz's popularity stems from his political 
association with the pseudo-religious wing of the white 
supremacist Aryan Nations movement. 
 
 
 
        GRITZ AND THE CHRISTIAN PATRIOT ASSOCIATION 
 
     Gritz has developed a working relationship with another 
prominent Christian Identity activist, Richard Flowers, of 
Boring, Oregon. Flowers heads the Christian Patriot 
Association (CPA), a leading distributor of mail-order neo-
Nazi movement books and tapes. CPA also publishes _The 
Patriot Review_ and Flowers sponsored a Gritz presidential 
campaign trip to Oregon. In an Oregon newspaper profile of 
the local white supremacist movement, Flowers conveyed these 
views:
 
      "The Bible says to stone them [homosexuals], but I'm 
     not sure we could get away with that in today's 
     society, but you really wouldn't need to shoot too many 
     of them to get the point across....
 
     Blacks in general have a lower IQ than whites, and most 
     just want to come in and take over without establishing 
     anything themselves." [_The Clackamas County Review_ 
     week ending June 3, 1992, pg. 1-2]
 
     In a recent issue of CPA's _Patriot Review_, one 
contributor lamented the poor situation of the "white race" 
and asserted that "The term racism is a vicious propaganda 
weapon used by bullies to silence the white race from 
speaking the truth." [_The Patriot Review_, November 1992] 
This is just one sample of the content of CPA's 
publications.
 
     The CPA distributes an array of literature and 
audio/video tapes through their 76-page book catalog. [CPA 
Book Publisher Book Catalog 1992-1993] Entire sections of 
the catalog are devoted to "Christianity-Race-Religion" and 
"The Jewish Issue." Included are audio tapes from Posse 
Comitatus movement leaders, such as James Wickstrom. [_Blood 
in the Face_ by James Ridgeway, Thunder's Mouth Press, 1990, 
pg 133 supplies an example of a Wickstrom tape message.] 
Also for sale are "Holocaust revisionism" tapes by David 
Irving and "revisionist" books by Arthur Butz and Austin 
App.
 
     Gritz maintains a direct working relationship with the 
Christian Patriot Association (CPA) through a coalition of 
right-wing tax protest groups, the National Coalition to 
Reform Money and Taxes (NCRMT.) Gritz's own Center for 
Action and the CPA, plus a number of other "patriot" 
organizations are all allied in the NCRMT project to repeal 
the income tax, return to the use of gold and silver, etc. 
The January 1992 issue of _The Petitioner_, a newsletter 
supported by three of the member groups of NCRMT, featured a 
promotional interview with Gritz and his campaign manager 
Charlie Brown and reported on Gritz's participation in the 
coalition. 
 
     Aside from his work with Pete Peters' Identity group, 
Gritz participates in a political project with CPA, yet 
another element of the white supremacist movement. 
 
     Gritz writes a column called _The Colonel's Corner_ for 
his _Center for Action_ newsletter. The November 1992 issue 
of CPA's _Patriot Review_ reprinted one of Gritz's columns. 
In it, Gritz writes about his relationship with Willis Carto 
and the Liberty Lobby's Populist Action Committee:
 
 
     I was asked to allow my name to be placed on the list 
     of policy board members of Carto's Populist Action 
     Committee. I saw nothing wrong in this, but I must tell 
     you I have never received the first communication from 
     them. 
 
 
In fact, Gritz was listed as a member of the Populist Action 
Committee in several issues of Carto's (Liberty Lobby) 
_Spotlight_ newspaper, prior to his claim of not having 
received any communication from the PAC.
 
     Gritz collaborates actively and implicitly with Pete 
Peters, the Christian Patriot Association, and the Populist 
Action Committee. Gritz's political commitments are a matter 
of public record. His claims that he rejects racist and 
anti-Jewish ideas do not apparently prevent him from 
assisting those who do advocate those ideas. 
 
 
 


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817 Sun Jan 17 01:13:07 PST 1993
Article: 9266 of alt.conspiracy
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From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz, Khun Sa, and Identity Christians
Date: 17 Jan 1993 05:23:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <1jaqgaINN500@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I see no reason to question the facts in Richard Hatch's informative
article, which appears to show beyond any reasonable doubt that Bo
Gritz collaborates with groups which have explicit racism as part of
their agenda. I think I would attribute a different significance to
those facts and associations than do those who see them as proof of
Col. Gritz's "racism" and "fascism". Politics is the art of coalition
building. I know of nobody who has accomplished anything substantial on
the stage of history without at the same time entering working alliances 
with those who might hold beliefs repugnant to one's own ideals. Now
any "progressives" who have never entered coalition with the likes of
Stalinists or Maoists may wish to dispute this, but I suspect your 
numbers are few. Gritz is trying to accomplish what I believe to be
the morally worthwhile goal of exposing some particularly heinous
crimes of government officials. Just like any of us who work on our own
cars, Col. Gritz has used the tools available, and inevitably ended up
with greasy hands. I do not believe Gritz to be personally a white
racist, an anti-semite, or a fascist, although he clearly associates
with some such. I applaud him for being willing to ACT to expose the
likes of Shackley and Armitage, while progressives, with the courageous
exception of the Christic Institute, have sat on their hands to keep 
them clean. I ask any thinking person who is the greater threat to 
U.S. freedom and COnstitutional Government? Gritz and his allies or
Shackley and his (recall that the latter group would include George
Bush, et. al.) Let's have a little more prespevtive and a little 
less liberal hypocrisy!

-Steve


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cj195 Sun Jan 17 09:50:30 PST 1993
Article: 9272 of alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cj195
From: cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz, Khun Sa, and Identity Christians
Date: 17 Jan 1993 08:00:53 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <1jb3nlINNaa5@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
References: <1jaqgaINN500@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Reply-To: cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) says:

>
>I see no reason to question the facts in Richard Hatch's informative
>article, which appears to show beyond any reasonable doubt that Bo
>Gritz collaborates with groups which have explicit racism as part of
>their agenda. I think I would attribute a different significance to
>those facts and associations than do those who see them as proof of
>Col. Gritz's "racism" and "fascism". Politics is the art of coalition
>building. I know of nobody who has accomplished anything substantial on
>the stage of history without at the same time entering working alliances 
>with those who might hold beliefs repugnant to one's own ideals. Now
>any "progressives" who have never entered coalition with the likes of
>Stalinists or Maoists may wish to dispute this, but I suspect your 
>numbers are few. Gritz is trying to accomplish what I believe to be
>the morally worthwhile goal of exposing some particularly heinous
>crimes of government officials. Just like any of us who work on our own
>cars, Col. Gritz has used the tools available, and inevitably ended up
>with greasy hands. I do not believe Gritz to be personally a white
>racist, an anti-semite, or a fascist, although he clearly associates
>with some such. I applaud him for being willing to ACT to expose the
>likes of Shackley and Armitage, while progressives, with the courageous
>exception of the Christic Institute, have sat on their hands to keep 
>them clean. I ask any thinking person who is the greater threat to 
>U.S. freedom and COnstitutional Government? Gritz and his allies or
>Shackley and his (recall that the latter group would include George
>Bush, et. al.) Let's have a little more prespevtive and a little 
>less liberal hypocrisy!
>
>-Steve
>
It is my opinion that Mr. Crocker presents a virtually airtight argument
here against condemning Bo Gritz for his so-called "guilt by
association."  I believe it is the task now for his enemies to document
by his words and deeds that Bo Gritz is, himself, either anti-Jewish,
white racist or both.  If such could be demonstrated, most of Bo Gritz's
followers would turn from him in disgust.

Excellent work, Mr. Crocker.  Keep up the good work.  If you fail to
convert any of the black-hats, at least you lend strength to the good
guys.
-- 


--------- All my opinions are tentative pending further data. ---------
------------ John W. Redelfs, cj195@cleveland.Freenet.edu -------------


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!ccsvax.sfasu.edu!f_gautjw Sun Jan 17 10:55:29 PST 1993
Article: 9282 of alt.conspiracy
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From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz, Khun Sa, and Identity Christians
Message-ID: <1993Jan17.104711.2454@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>
Date: 17 Jan 93 10:47:11 CST
References: <1jaqgaINN500@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1jb3nlINNaa5@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University
Lines: 66

In article <1jb3nlINNaa5@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes:
> 
> In a previous article, aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) says:
> 
>>
>>I see no reason to question the facts in Richard Hatch's informative

etc., etc., etc.

>>-Steve
>>
> It is my opinion that Mr. Crocker presents a virtually airtight argument
> here against condemning Bo Gritz for his so-called "guilt by
> association."  I believe it is the task now for his enemies to document
> by his words and deeds that Bo Gritz is, himself, either anti-Jewish,
> white racist or both.  If such could be demonstrated, most of Bo Gritz's
> followers would turn from him in disgust.
> 
> Excellent work, Mr. Crocker.  Keep up the good work.  If you fail to
> convert any of the black-hats, at least you lend strength to the good
> guys.
> -- 
> 
> 
> --------- All my opinions are tentative pending further data. ---------
> ------------ John W. Redelfs, cj195@cleveland.Freenet.edu -------------

Ditto. So far the only case against Bo Gritz seems to be the "guilt by
association tarbrush" which can be applied to virtually any politician.
If such were applicable, then half of the Israeli electorate could be
considered racist for having supported the Likud party's Itzhak Shamir,
known for hateful rhetoric against Arabs. I don't think such logic works.

Negative attitudes towards the federal reserve, promotion of hard
currency ideas, and sympathy with various types of tax protests don't
make a racist either.  Obviously the country has serious problems and
much of the blame by definition must lie with the federal reserve and
its policies.  Hard currency might be worth some re-examination since
our economy has been in an inflationary "float" without it for many years
now as our older citizens are systematically robbed of their savings
and our young people are discouraged to save.  Further, a justified
tax protest movement started the ball rolling for our republic in the
first place.

The undercurrent I see in the attack on those such as Gritz is the
desire to further the agenda of the internationalists.  The new world
[where's the order] bunch finds patriots such Gritz in the way. The
same group of antagonists seems to find Ross Perot's grass roots support
just as disturbing...perhaps more so since the increased sophistication
brings a wider appeal at the polls.  

I further notice that some of Gritz's antagonists, such as Chip Berlet,
frequently flood this newsgroup with material derisive about some
individual or cause.  But I cannot recall postings from the same
that were actively expousing some cause. Maybe I am wrong.  Maybe it
is there and just needs clarification.  But I would like to know what
those in the Chip Berlet camp stand "FOR".  We know a lot about what
they are "AGAINST".  Maybe they offer some solutions other than just
the tearing down of solutions offered by others. What is their solution
for a troubled economy?  What is their solution to violence in our
distraught inner cities.  What do they think about NAFTA?  Without
hearing such a program, it is hard not to conclude that the attack
on others with fresh ideas is nothing more than a defense of the status
quo, a status quo that obviously is not working.  

-Joe Gaut


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2 Sun Jan 17 10:55:56 PST 1993
Article: 9284 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9284 soc.culture.african.american:10553
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.african.american
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From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz, Khun Sa, and Identity Christians
Message-ID: <1993Jan17.170345.21941@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <1jaqgaINN500@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1jb3nlINNaa5@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 17:03:45 GMT
Lines: 39

In article <1jb3nlINNaa5@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes:
>It is my opinion that Mr. Crocker presents a virtually airtight argument
>here against condemning Bo Gritz for his so-called "guilt by
>association."  I believe it is the task now for his enemies to document
>by his words and deeds that Bo Gritz is, himself, either anti-Jewish,
>white racist or both.  

Deeds: lending credibility to anti-Semites.
       choosing to run on the same ticket as David Duke.

Words: maliciously lying about a conspiracy of "Jewish bankers."
       offering his whole-hearted support to the white supremacist Identity
         Christians.

>If such could be demonstrated, most of Bo Gritz's
>followers would turn from him in disgust.

What is it that requires demonstration?  By the standard you are setting
for Bo Gritz, no one could prove that David Duke is racist.  Or even
Hitler for that matter.

What would it take for you to change your mind?  This is the third time
I've asked this question.  Do you believe that there are no racists in
the US?  Few have demonstrated their racism and anti-Semitism as clearly
as Bo Gritz.

For the third time, what evidence would you require to prove that Bo
Gritz is anti-Semitic?  Someone else claimed it was running on the same
ticket as David Duke (which was fervently denied by the Gritzies until
someone came up with a photograph in Gritz's anti-Semitic magazine showing
him shaking hands with Duke).  What do you require, besides telling
anti-Semitic tales, consorting with and supporting racists and anti-Semites,
running on the same ticket as David Duke, and belonging to white supremacist
organizations?
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2 Sun Jan 17 20:51:08 PST 1993
Article: 1231 of alt.revisionism
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9310 alt.revisionism:1231
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Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Bo Gritz and anti-Semitism
Message-ID: <1993Jan17.213921.542@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <1jb3nlINNaa5@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993Jan17.104711.2454@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> <1993Jan17.210817.19704@scic.intel.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 21:39:21 GMT
Lines: 27

In article <1993Jan17.210817.19704@scic.intel.com> sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth "Gimpy" Bradley) writes:
>In article <1993Jan17.104711.2454@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>>Negative attitudes towards the federal reserve, promotion of hard
>>currency ideas, and sympathy with various types of tax protests don't
>>make a racist either.  Obviously the country has serious problems and
>
>Please tell us why Gritz refers to the "Rockefeller/Rothschild" Federal Reserve
>System as being controlled by "seven Jewish families."  This is not simply
>an instance of "Negative attitudes towards the federal reserve" but _is_ an
>instance of making a special issue about religion.  

Especially when the allegation is false.

Especially when it's the same lie about "Jewish bankers" controlling
the world that's been used for centuries to stir up hatred against Jews.

>This has been brought
>up time and again in this group, with silence in response from the Gritz
>supporters.  Until this issue is addressed, defending Gritz as being non-
>anti-semitic will receive little credibility, IMO.

Agreed.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!ssd.intel.com!scic.intel.com!sbradley Sun Jan 17 21:21:31 PST 1993
Article: 9291 of alt.conspiracy
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
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From: sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth "Gimpy" Bradley)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz, Khun Sa, and Identity Christians
Message-ID: <1993Jan17.210817.19704@scic.intel.com>
Sender: news@scic.intel.com
Organization: Intel Corporation
References: <1jaqgaINN500@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1jb3nlINNaa5@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1993Jan17.104711.2454@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1993 21:08:17 GMT
Lines: 20

In article <1993Jan17.104711.2454@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>Negative attitudes towards the federal reserve, promotion of hard
>currency ideas, and sympathy with various types of tax protests don't
>make a racist either.  Obviously the country has serious problems and

Please tell us why Gritz refers to the "Rockefeller/Rothschild" Federal Reserve
System as being controlled by "seven Jewish families."  This is not simply
an instance of "Negative attitudes towards the federal reserve" but _is_ an
instance of making a special issue about religion.  This has been brought
up time and again in this group, with silence in response from the Gritz
supporters.  Until this issue is addressed, defending Gritz as being non-
anti-semitic will receive little credibility, IMO.
-- 
Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SCIC
Internet: sbradley@scic.intel.com   UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley
----------------------------------------
"A system admin's life is a sorry one.  The only advantage he has over
Emergency Room doctors is that malpractice suits are rare.  On the other
hand, ER doctors never have to deal with patients installing new versions
of their own innards!"  -Michael O'Brien


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2 Mon Jan 18 07:23:07 PST 1993
Article: 9342 of alt.conspiracy
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:9342 soc.culture.african.american:10572 soc.culture.jewish:19961
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.jewish
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Racism
Message-ID: <1993Jan18.132821.28762@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <1jdu5qINN6da@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 13:28:21 GMT
Lines: 30

In article <1jdu5qINN6da@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
>
>Ted, you say that Col. Gritz qualifies as an anti-semite by my
>definition. Could you indicate what remarks he has made critizing 
>an individual for being Jewish, or negatively characterizing the 
>Jewish people as a whole? I am not aware of such. 

If you had read Chip's post, he quoted Gritz:

Gritz:
   "I believe that the Identity Christian Movement will continue
to grow in this nation until it is able to stand self-sufficient
in spite of the government....Basically the Zionists are taking
over and we Christians are being formed into small pockets that
have to go to camps twice a year to learn what's going on....The
enemy you face today is a satanic overthrow where he would change
the United States of America, a nation under God, into USA
incorporated with King George as chariman of the board, and a
Zionist group that would rule over us as long as satan might be on
earth....I am telling you that he (God) has given us all that we
need. He's given us the likes of Pete Peters, he's given us the
likes of the Identity Christian movement."
    -Source, , Center for Democratic Renewal
    (Atlanta), December 1991, page 19.

-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!lynx!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue Mon Jan 18 22:34:06 PST 1993
Article: 9360 of alt.conspiracy
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
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From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Populism
Message-ID: <1993Jan18.193844.4032@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>
Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: damon.ccs.northeastern.edu
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U
References: <1jdvs8INN7c7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 19:38:44 GMT
Lines: 34

In article <1jdvs8INN7c7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) writes: 
>
>So Bo Gritz speaks at meetings with racists and is associated with
>racist organizations. I once marched in Washington DC right behind
>the contingent chanting Nixon ..... We Want You ... DEAD! What is
>that supposed to imply about MY politics. 

Steve - are you saying you marched _with_ those people, or _near_
them?  There's a big difference.  Seems pretty clear to me Gritz is an
Identity Christian, especially given the quote approving of Peters &
the Identity movement.

>This is still all guilt
>by association. If anybody had anything more solid on Gritz, surely
>it would have surfaced by now. 

By this logic, if he's not out of the closet, he's not gay.  But
there's lots of gays still in the closet.  Follow me?

>ANd even if he WERE a racist, his 
>information on Shackley, Armitage, et. al. should be considered 
>and investigated.

Here, I _finally_ agree with you.  Kinda scary.

	RA

rogue@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent)
----------------------------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bz965 Tue Jan 19 07:22:36 PST 1993
Article: 9386 of alt.conspiracy
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From: bz965@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Hatch)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Populism
Date: 19 Jan 1993 04:23:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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Your opinion of the politics of the CARAF publication _Beyond the
Pale_ by Derrick Knight are irrelevant. The quotation I cited was
ultimately referenced to the _New Statesman_ November 4, 1977.
The politics of the British National Party are well known, even
here in the United States. I hope you are not so foolish as to
deny that the BNP is a fascist organization.


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!glasgow!monaghan Tue Jan 19 07:22:54 PST 1993
Article: 9400 of alt.conspiracy
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From: monaghan@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (N.O. Monaghan)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Populism
Message-ID: 
Date: 19 Jan 93 11:08:47 GMT
References: <1jfvngINNjtc@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.
Lines: 21

bz965@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Hatch) writes:
>Your opinion of the politics of the CARAF publication _Beyond the
>Pale_ by Derrick Knight are irrelevant. The quotation I cited was
>ultimately referenced to the _New Statesman_ November 4, 1977.
>The politics of the British National Party are well known, even
>here in the United States. I hope you are not so foolish as to
>deny that the BNP is a fascist organization.

My opinion of the book is based not just on its biased political stance but
also on its collection of lies, half-truths, unwarranted assumptions and
general smear tactics that is uses - many directed against people that I
know personally.

As to the BNP, I have not examined its policies in detail and unable to
comment on whether it follows the classical fascist corporatism or not.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
N.O. Monaghan

monaghan@dcs.gla.ac.uk
---------------------------------------------------------------------


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!spool.mu.edu!caen!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!do-not-reply-to-path Tue Jan 19 07:23:31 PST 1993
Article: 9396 of alt.conspiracy
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From: ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Racism
Message-ID: <1993Jan19.095132.24619@news.ysu.edu>
Sender: news@news.ysu.edu (Usenet News Admin)
Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn.ysu.edu
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 09:51:32 GMT
Lines: 9


Ted, are you suggesting that "Zionists"="The Jewish People"? I 
think we could find a lot of Jews to disagree with that one.
Gritz's critism of Zionist political power may be exaggerated,
but it is not equivalent to an attack on the Jewish people. There
is a substantial number of Jews who are critical of Zionism, and
probably even more who are apolitical.

-Steve


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!spool.mu.edu!uunet!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!vax5.cit.cornell.edu!q2tj Tue Jan 19 07:24:24 PST 1993
Article: 1236 of alt.revisionism
Xref: oneb soc.culture.jewish:20005 alt.revisionism:1236
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From: q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: <1993Jan18.174306.16859@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>
Date: 18 Jan 93 17:43:06 EST
References: <1j09npINN25m@slab.mtholyoke.edu>  <1993Jan17.184434.28609@udel.edu> 
Distribution: world,soc
Organization: Cornell University
Lines: 49

In article ,
arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes: 
> In article <1993Jan17.184434.28609@udel.edu> carroll@balin.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll) writes:
>>
>>Second: I've had some contact with the Populist party in New Jersey -
>>they picked up a pretty strong following in some areas of New Jersey
>>during the backlash against Governor Florio's tax hikes. The populist
>>party is _not_ quite as you represent it. [deleted negative comments
>>about populist party]
> 
> I have been to several meetings of the Illinos Populist Party and have
> never heard those terms used nor the ideas you suggest discussed.  I have
> read their very excellent newsletter for a number of years and again
> suggest that your experience is not mine.
>
------------------------------------------------------------ 
I too have heard many times "the populist party wants to put
people first"  Gosh what's so bad about that?  I guess nothing
if you're one to judge an organization by its slogans.
Communist, socialist, democratic, republican, fascist parties
*all* have virtually identical slogans like this.  So what!...

Here's a summary of the recent history of the populist
party (ref: personal communication with Dennis King; investigative
journalist, and leading expert on Lyndon Larouche...wrote a great
book about it):  The Populist Party ( & populism) has a long history
that goes back to the last century.  Since the sixties it was pretty
much non-existent (it's had lots of up & downs) until E. Carto dumped
a lot of money into it.  Carto & Liberty Lobby had most of the influence
in party matters; but then every few years a local politician will
get involved with the party.  In some cases he'll be an old-fashioned
populist (who just wants to promote farming interests, populist economic
reform etc) and isn't even very aware of Liberty Lobby.  Some of these
guys will get substantial influence for a few years and then Carto
& Liberty Lobby will get the main control back.  The Liberty Lobby
is always either calling the shots when able or making overtures to
the Populist Party (look at Spotlight, or Tom Valentine SW broadcasts
every-nite) to gain more influence.  The libery lobby is never far away
though.  Sometimes they call all the shots, and then for a few years
a maverick comes along and partially eclipses them, and then liberty
lobby pretends they are out front (and shortly they get their influence
back).

Sometimes it hard to tell the horse from the Carto!!!!!!!
But through it all there *is* a cloud of suspicion over the populist
party and to be unaware of this would be a big mistake.
Sure, every now and then a maverick gets under the populist banner
and seems ok, and gets popular; but one shouldn't be naive to the
big picture of the party.


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!ellis!thf2 Tue Jan 19 16:24:16 PST 1993
Article: 9408 of alt.conspiracy
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!ellis!thf2
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Racism
Message-ID: <1993Jan19.134317.19940@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <1993Jan19.095132.24619@news.ysu.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 13:43:17 GMT
Lines: 39

In article <1993Jan19.095132.24619@news.ysu.edu> ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
>
>Ted, are you suggesting that "Zionists"="The Jewish People"? I 
>think we could find a lot of Jews to disagree with that one.

It's a standard code-word used to attack Jewish people and then
claim with all innocence "anti-Zionism isn't anti-Semitism."

Open your eyes, friend.  If you're looking for a statement to the
effect of "I hate all Jews and I'm an anti-Semite -- oops, what a 
giveaway!", you're not going to find it from Gritz any more than
you're going to find it from David Duke.

Every single defense you're using for Gritz can be applied to Duke,
which suggests to me that your standards for judging racism are a
hell of a lot too high.  Which is curious -- you're willing to believe
charges against Armitage with no backing evidence, but suddenly your
skepticism-meter arises to unfulfillable levels when there is more thna
just a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to the fact that Gritz
is an anti-Semite.

Let's just say that any one of these things by itself, yeah, sure, that's
not enough.  But it's not just one.  It's that *every* *single* *relevant*
statement or action by Gritz has anti-Semitic overtones (keyword is
relevant) -- I have yet to see any evidence that he's said anything
to defend himself from these accusations or done anything to disassociate
himself from the Nazis he supports.

>Gritz's critism of Zionist political power may be exaggerated,
>but it is not equivalent to an attack on the Jewish people. There
>is a substantial number of Jews who are critical of Zionism, and
>probably even more who are apolitical.

You know that and I know that, but Gritz's criticism of nonexistent
"Jewish bankers" indicates to me that he equates Zionists and Jews.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews Tue Jan 19 16:24:40 PST 1993
Article: 9423 of alt.conspiracy
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From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Racism
Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News)
Message-ID: 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 19:10:47 GMT
References: <1993Jan19.095132.24619@news.ysu.edu> <1993Jan19.134317.19940@midway.uchicago.edu>
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In article <1993Jan19.134317.19940@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan19.095132.24619@news.ysu.edu> ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
>>
>>Ted, are you suggesting that "Zionists"="The Jewish People"? I 
>>think we could find a lot of Jews to disagree with that one.
>
>It's a standard code-word used to attack Jewish people and then
>claim with all innocence "anti-Zionism isn't anti-Semitism."

  There was an article in today's Boston Globe about a judge 
  who used the word "Canadian" to refer to Jews.  He would say
  things like "brr, it's getting cold in here, must be a wind
  from Canada", or "Here comes the Montreal Express", when 
  any Jewish lawyer was about to enter his courtroom.  He
  would also refer to "Canada" when talking about Israel,
  and would talk about "Canadian preoccupation with money".

  I mean, I've heard Jews called lots of things before, but
  Canadian?!   Truly bizarre. 


>You know that and I know that, but Gritz's criticism of nonexistent
>"Jewish bankers" indicates to me that he equates Zionists and Jews.

  The Globe also reported about a year ago that 9 of the 10
  largest banks in the world are Japanese.   How do the 
  international-Jewish-bankers-conspiracy fans fit this 
  information into their world view?   


---peter






From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!olivea!pagesat!spssig.spss.com!uchinews!machine!ddsw1!arf Wed Jan 20 07:16:32 PST 1993
Article: 1248 of alt.revisionism
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From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: 
Date: 20 Jan 93 04:46:48 GMT
References: <1993Jan17.184434.28609@udel.edu>  <1993Jan18.174306.16859@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>
Distribution: world,soc
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Lines: 32

In article <1993Jan18.174306.16859@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:


 
 >Here's a summary of the recent history of the populist
 party ...... The Populist Party ( & populism) has a long history
 that goes back to the last century.  Since the sixties it was pretty
 much non-existent .....
 
 Interesting how your summary of "recent history" contained not a single 
 recent fact.
 
 It is interesting also how you equate the Populist Party with populism.
 
 It's sort of like suggesting that only Democrats are interested in democracy.
 
 I was speaking for a very narrow segement of the the PP, i.e., the Illinois 
 Chapter which ran some very excellent candidates in the recent election.  Bo 
 Gritz does not happen to be one of them and connecting everyone in the party 
 with him and his views is simply hate mongering.
 
 I myself ran for Cook County Commissioner on the Populist ticket a few years 
 ago but that hardly makes me Fundamentalist loony like Gritz.
 
 Jim Justice, an outstanding American ran for the U S Senate on the PP ticket 
 and expanded our choise beyond two raving Israel-firsters.   Mosley-Braun 
 out-Israeled her opponent even though he wore a yarmulka when ever addressing 
 the Friends of Israel.  It's is real nice to have an alternative to the media 
 sanctioned candidates.  I think Perot proved that and all you smearing of a 
 third party will not change things much.
 
 js


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!rpi!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!hri.com!ukma!netsys!pagesat!spssig.spss.com!uchinews!ellis!thf2 Wed Jan 20 07:17:22 PST 1993
Article: 1246 of alt.revisionism
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From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Racism and Bo Gritz
Message-ID: <1993Jan19.211221.5372@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: 19 Jan 93 21:12:21 GMT
References: <1jhi61INNhov@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1jhllgINNk8o@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
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In article <1jhllgINNk8o@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes:
>Part of the problem may be borderline paranoia.  Are Birchers and other
>conspiracy theorists the only paranoids around?
>
>Just as some on the right see "a communist under every bed."  It seems
>that their are SOME Jews that see "an anti-Semite under every bed."
>
>Could there be any truth to this?

Yes, there's some truth to it.  People unfairly criticize David Dinkins
and George Bush as anti-Semitic, for example.  There was a debate within
the Jewish community over Pat Buchanan.  There were very reasonable
arguments as to why one should consider Pat Buchanan an anti-Semite,
and very reasonable counter-arguments within the Jewish community
as to why one shouldn't.

No such counter-arguments exist for Gritz.

Neither Dinkins nor Bush have ever run on the same ticket
as David Duke, nor have either ever endorsed the Identity Christian
movement, which calls Jews tools of Satan, nor have either called
for a revolution against "Zionists" who "control" the US government,
nor have either ever promulgated irresponsible malicious falsehoods
about "Jewish bankers" straight out of centuries-old anti-Semitic
propaganda.  In my mind, any single one of these would be enough 
to call into question whether someone was anti-Semitic,
and some would be enough to close the book on the matter.  All four?
You can try to explain one of them away, but how can you explain away
all four?  Beyond a reasonable doubt, Gritz is anti-Semitic.  

It's not like I'm going to wait until Gritz actually starts having
Jews killed to give him the label.

I'm going to ask you this for the fourth time, now.  What is it that
you require to call someone "anti-Semitic"?

I won't even get into the history of how "America First," the
motto of Gritz, has been used by anti-Semites against Jews.

There's a spectrum of anti-Semitism out there, and some people define
it way too broadly, and there's a reasonable debate out there where the
line should be drawn, but it's not like Bo Gritz is a borderline case
in a gray area.  He's off the scale.  He's about as virulent as they come.  
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!vax5.cit.cornell.edu!q2tj Thu Jan 21 09:41:49 PST 1993
Article: 1258 of alt.revisionism
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From: q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Message-ID: <1993Jan20.224322.16941@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>
Date: 21 Jan 93 03:43:22 GMT
References: <1993Jan17.184434.28609@udel.edu>  <1993Jan18.174306.16859@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> 
Distribution: world,soc
Organization: Cornell University
Lines: 45

In article ,
arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes: 
> In article <1993Jan18.174306.16859@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
> 
> 
>  
>  >Here's a summary of the recent history of the populist
>  party ...... The Populist Party ( & populism) has a long history
>  that goes back to the last century.  Since the sixties it was pretty
>  much non-existent .....
>  
>  Interesting how your summary of "recent history" contained not a single 
>  recent fact.
>
	 Really?  Just an overview.  What about my mention of
	the SW broadcasts from the Liberty Lobby.  They are
	being made today.  What's the exact relation of the
	Liberty Lobby and the PP.  WHo is funding who?
  
>  It is interesting also how you equate the Populist Party with populism.
>
	Where did I make that equation.  I did not in fact.
  
>  It's sort of like suggesting that only Democrats are interested in democracy.
>
>  
>  I myself ran for Cook County Commissioner on the Populist ticket a few years 
>  ago but that hardly makes me Fundamentalist loony like Gritz.
>
	So you think Gritz is a looney?  Please answer this:
	Is the Liberty Lobby running PP, funding PP, or is it
	just that they are both funded from a common source?
	What is Gritz's position in the PP?

>  Jim Justice, an outstanding American ran for the U S Senate on the PP ticket 
>  and expanded our choise beyond two raving Israel-firsters.   Mosley-Braun 
>  out-Israeled her opponent even though he wore a yarmulka when ever addressing 
>  the Friends of Israel.  It's is real nice to have an alternative to the media 
>  sanctioned candidates.  I think Perot proved that and all you smearing of a 
>  third party will not change things much.
>

	Israel-firsters?  Just tell us the relationship with Liberty
	Lobby.
  


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!lanai.cs.ucla.edu!pierce Thu Jan 21 09:43:06 PST 1993
Article: 1260 of alt.revisionism
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From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Subject: Bo Gritz and Pete Peters
Message-ID: <1993Jan21.022014.4917@cs.ucla.edu>
Sender: usenet@cs.ucla.edu (Mr Usenet)
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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 02:20:14 GMT
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---------------  FORWARDED POSTING  -------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: Matthew Lyons 
Subject:      OPIN/INFO: Bo Gritz, hero of the neo-Nazi movement
Message-ID: <1991Dec16.233337.12474@pencil.cs.missouri.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1991 23:33:37 GMT

     In the course of defending the nazi propaganda tabloid,
SPOTLIGHT, as a source of "truth" which is helping to avert
"genocide," John DiNardo (Part IV, 12/11/91) made the following
assertion about Bo Gritz, Populist Party candidate for president:
"It's...disgusting to see Bo Gritz, a great hero, affiliate himself
with the Populist Party.  Bo Gritz, more than anyone, should know
that many thousands of American warriors and millions of human
beings, covering an array of nationalities and ethnicities, were
slaughtered by the fascist ideologies courted by the Liberty
Lobby."

     For those who would like to check this imaginative assessment
of Gritz against the man's actual statements and actions, below are
two articles on Gritz from the December 1991 issue of THE MONITOR,
a publication of the Center for Democratic Renewal (CDR).  CDR is
a leading center for anti-Nazi/Klan education and organizing in the
United States.  For more information contact CDR, P.O. Box 50469,
Atlanta, GA 30302-0469; (404) 221-0025.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Claims he's not a racist --
RAMBO HEADS POPULIST TICKET
(from THE MONITOR, December 1991)

     Despite a series of internal disputes which have left it badly
divided, all the factions of the Populist Party appear to be
supporting a 1992 Presidential campaign by Col. Bo Gritz.  A
popular speaker at Identity Bible camps, "survivalist" expositions
and other far right meetings, Gritz bills himself as the "most
decorated Green Beret Commander" and the model for the Rambo movie
character.
     His resume reads like a hero out of a Robert Ludlum novel:
"Intelligence Officer & Reconnaissance Chief for Delta Force;
Principal Agent for National Security Council Intelligence Support
Activity; Karate 6th degree black belt; and fluent in Swahili and
Chinese Mandarin."  Gritz reportedly resigned from the military in
1979.  The Populist Party's newsletter claimed that Gritz had
killed "over 400 communists in his illustrious career."
     Gritz told the Liberty Lobby's SPOTLIGHT tabloid that he
supported George Wallace's segregationist Presidential bid in 1968.
Gritz went on to garner publicity with four "secret" trips to
Southeast Asia, ostensibly searching for P.O.W.s still held in
Vietnam.
     In 1988 Gritz briefly accepted the Populist Party's Vice
Presidential nomination to run along with Presidential candidate
David Duke.  He stepped down shortly into the campaign however, to
run as a Republican for office in his home state of Nevada.
     Gritz now claims that the Populist Party's racist reputation
is due to David Duke bringing racist elements into the party when
Duke was the Party's presidential candidate in 1988.  But from the
moment of its formation in 1984 until today, the top leadership of
the Populist Party has always been filled with well-known white
supremacists.
     For example, former Mississippi Klansman Robert Weems was the
party's fist chairman.  When Gritz accepted the nomination to run
with Duke, the vice-chair was Jerry Pope, a former National States
Rights Party executive committee member along with convicted church
bomber J.B. Stoner.  Today, Californian Joe Fields is a prominent
member of the executive committee after a long career of open
adulation of Hitler.
     There is, in fact, significant evidence that Gritz is quite
at home among white supremacists.  Despite his Mormon heritage,
Gritz has been a frequent speaker at Christian Identity
conferences.  Identity is the quasi-religious movement which claims
that people of color are less than human; that Jews are children
of the devil; and that white people of northern Europe are the
Biblical people of Israel who shall fight a race war in the United
States to gain redemption.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

BO GRITZ IN HIS OWN WORDS
(from THE MONITOR, December 1991)

     The following are excerpts from a 1991 speech at an Identity
Bible Camp run by Pete Peters in western Colorado.
     * "The enemy you face today is a satanic overthrow where he
would change the United States of America, a nation under God, into
USA Incorporated with King George as chairman of the board.  And
a Zionist group that would rule over us as long as satan might be
upon this earth, that is your enemy."
     * "Do you think you're lucky to be an American today?  Do you
think you're lucky to be an Identity Christian today?  ...I believe
that the Identity Christian movement will continue to grow in this
nation until it is able to stand self-sufficient in spite of the
government."
     * "Basically the Zionists are taking over and we Christians
are being formed into small pockets that have to go to camps twice
a year to learn what's going on."
     * "I didn't ask how or why, I just figured if it was meant to
happen, (publication of Gritz' book CALLED TO SERVE - ed.) there
would be somebody there.  And Pete Peters just happened to send me
a check and say, here Bo, we thought you might be needing this.
It just happened on the very day that we had to pay the final bill
on the book.  So, the very first copies of the book will arrive
here (at the Bible camp in Colorado - ed.) by Air Express from
Michigan.  Pete Peters will get the very first copy."
     * "I am telling you that he (God) has given us all that we
need.  He's given us the likes of Pete Peters, he's given us the
likes of the Identity Christian movement."

     In his book CALLED TO SERVE, Gritz promotes anti-Semitic myths
about "international Jewish bankers."
     "Eight Jewish families virtually control the entire FED
(Federal Reserve System - ed) -- only three are American jews
(sic)...Rotschilds of London and Berlin, Lazard Bros.-Paris,
Israel, Mossesschiff-Italy, Kuhn-Loeb--Germany, Warburg-Hamburg,
Lechman Bros-NY, Goldman and Sachs-NY and Rockefellers-NY." p. 609.

---------------  END OF FORWARDED POSTING  ------------------------



From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2 Thu Jan 21 09:43:22 PST 1993
Article: 1261 of alt.revisionism
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Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!thf2
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz and Pete Peters
Message-ID: <1993Jan21.055318.5762@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <1993Jan21.022014.4917@cs.ucla.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 05:53:18 GMT
Lines: 17

In article <1993Jan21.022014.4917@cs.ucla.edu> pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) writes:
>BO GRITZ IN HIS OWN WORDS
>(from THE MONITOR, December 1991)
>
>     The following are excerpts from a 1991 speech at an Identity
>Bible Camp run by Pete Peters in western Colorado.  [...]
>     * "Basically the Zionists are taking over and we Christians
>are being formed into small pockets that have to go to camps twice
>a year to learn what's going on."

I think this statement of Gritz's basically refutes the notion that
he is distinguishing between "Zionists" and "Jews," as some other 
posters claimed.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bz965 Sat Mar 13 20:35:56 PST 1993
Article: 11529 of alt.conspiracy
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From: bz965@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Hatch)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Gritz, Secord, Drugs?
Date: 14 Mar 1993 03:12:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 45
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NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


 
 
     According to his resume, Gritz served as "Principle Agent, 
NSC, Intelligence Support Activity." _The Iran-Contra Connection: 
Secret Teams and Covert Operations in the Reagan Era_ [by 
Johnathan Marshall, Peter Dale Scott, and Jane Hunter, South End 
Press, 1987] reports that General Richard Secord, a close 
associate of Theodore Shackley, "is said to have participated in 
overseeing the Army's shadowy Intelligence Support Activity." It 
is ironic that Gritz may have been working in a Secord directed 
operation.
 
     Furthermore, Gritz's resume also claims that he "trained 
Afghan Mujahideen Freedom Fighters." The "Mujahideen" were, of 
course, probably the largest CIA covert operation since the 
Vietnam era and received billions of dollars in aid from the 
United States, as well as from Iran-Contra figures such as Prince 
Bandar of Saudi Arabia. One result of the US-backed war against 
the Soviets in Afghanistan was a tremendous increase in opium 
production in South-West Asia, especially Pakistan and 
Afghanistan and a corresponding increase in heroin addiction in 
the region. For example, opium production in Afghanistan 
increased from 400-500 metric tons in 1985 to 700-800 metric tons 
in 1988. One account reports:
 
     An estimated 87 percent of all opium is grown in Nangarhar 
     province and in the Helmand valley, most of which are in the 
     hands of the rebels. Although rebel leaders have repeatedly 
     promised Washington that they would try to crack down on the 
     drug trade, it is an open secret that some rebely commanders 
     have used opium profits to help finance their operations 
     against the Soviet-backed Government of Afghanistan...
     
     [American intelligence analysts] said they have long 
     suspected that planes, trucks, and mules ferrying American 
     military equipment into Afghanistan are also used to ship 
     drugs to Pakistan.
     [The New York Times, 3-6-89]
 
     Sound familiar? Was Gritz paid to train the "Mujahideeen"? 
Or was it just charity? Was it CIA money, the Saudi Iran-Contra 
connection, or the drug money? Will Gritz's supporters call for 
an investigation into Gritz's work with the Intelligence Support 
Activity and the Afghani "Freedom Fighters"?

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