The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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COLONEL AMEN: The affidavit of Dr. Mildner dated 9th April,
1946, will become Exhibit USA 791, and the affidavit of
Wilhelm Hoettl which I am about to read, dated 10th April,
1946, will become Exhibit USA 792.

  "I, the undersigned, Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl, make the
  following affidavit in response to cross-interrogation
  relating to an affidavit executed by me on 30th March,
  1946, answering questions put by Dr. Kauffmann for
  presentation to the International Military Tribunal.
  (1) With respect to Question No. 3. Please give the
  following information:
  (a) Explain the basis of your statement that when persons
  belonging to the S.D. were transferred to the Einsatz
  Commandos of the Sipo and S.D., they resigned from the
  S.D. Your attention is invited to the fact that
  Ohlendorf, the head of the S.D., has testified to the
  (b) Explain the basis for your statement that Einsatz
  Commandos had nothing to do with executions. Your
  attention is invited to the fact that your testimony in
  this regard is likewise in direct conflict with the head
  of the S.D., Ohlendorf.
  (c) What was Hitler's so-called 'Commissar order' and
  when did you first acquire knowledge of this order?
  Answer to 1(a): In my affidavit I did not speak of a
  permanent separation from the S.D. but of a leave of
  absence for the time of activity with an Einsatz
  Commando. By that was meant that they did not exercise
  their S.D. functions during this time, that this function
  was inactive.
  Answer to 1(b): My affidavit appears to have been
  misunderstood concerning this point. I did not state that
  Einsatz Commandos had nothing to do with executions but
  only that not all Einsatz Commandos were concerned with
  them. I mentioned as an example the Einsatz Commandos in
  Africa, Hungary, and Slovakia. In connection with that, I
  said that these Commandos had nothing to do with
  executions; by that I meant not directly with the actual
  Answer to I (c): I, myself, do not know the so-called
  'Commissar Order' of Hitler. Dr. Stahlecker, who
  commanded an Einsatz group of the Sipo and the S.D. in
  Russia, told me in the summer of 1942 that the executions
  of commissars and Jews were carried out on the basis of
  the 'Commissar Order' which covered the extermination of
  the Jews under the reason of their being bearers of
  2. With respect to Question 4. Is it not a fact that
  Heydrich, as Chief of Sipo and S.D., gave the initial
  instructions to Eichmann concerning the extermination of
  Jews; that in the R.S.H.A. Eichmann's immediate superior
  was Muller, Chief of the Gestapo; that Muller was first
  the deputy of Heydrich and later of Kaltenbrunner?
  Answer to 2: Yes, I heard from Eichmann, probably in
  August, 1944, that Heydrich had given him these
  directives. It is also correct that Muller,
                                                  [Page 258]
  Chief of the Gestapo, was Eichmann's immediate superior.
  As far as I know, Muller was the deputy of Heydrich and
  later of Kaltenbrunner only in the field of the Gestapo,
  as likewise were the other office chiefs on their
  respective fields.
  3. With respect to Question 5.
  Is it not a fact that you know from your discussions with
  Kaltenbrunner and with Eichmann that they came from the
  same community in Austria and were exceptionally close
  friends; that Eichmann always had direct access to
  Kaltenbrunner and that they frequently conferred
  together; that Kaltenbrunner was well pleased with the
  manner in which Eichmann carried out his duties; that
  Kaltenbrunner was very interested in the extermination
  work performed by Eichmann; that you personally know that
  Kaltenbrunner went to Hungary for the purpose of
  discussing the extermination programme in Hungary with
  officials of the Hungarian Government and with Eichmann
  and other members of his staff in Hungary? Please confirm
  or correct these statements and make any statement
  necessary to clarify your answer.
  Answer: I heard from Eichmann that he knew Kaltenbrunner
  from Linz and that they served there together in 1932 in
  an S.S. Sturm (Company). I do not know that they were
  exceptionally close friends or that Eichmann always had
  direct access to Kaltenbrunner and that they conferred
  I do not know the details about their official
  relationship. I do not know whether Kaltenbrunner also
  had conferences concerning the programme of extermination
  of Jews in Hungary during his stays in Hungary in the
  spring of 1944. Winkelmann, the former Senior S.S. and
  Police Leader in Hungary, must know exactly about that,
  since, according to my knowledge, he visited, together
  with Kaltenbrunner, persons in the Hungarian Government.
  4. With respect to Question 6.
  (a) Is it not known to you that Muller, Chief of the
  Gestapo, always conferred with Kaltenbrunner on matters
  of importance relating to the functions of his office -
  particularly with respect to executions of special
  (b) Did you know that Kaltenbrunner was the Higher S.S.
  and Police Leader and State Secretary for Security in
  Austria, after the Anschluss until his appointment as
  Chief of the R.S.H.A., a period of five years, during
  which time his attention was devoted exclusively to
  Police and Security matters?
  (c) What is the basis of your statement that the
  Intelligence Service took up the main part of
  Kaltenbrunner's attention and all his interest?
  Answer to 4(a): Details concerning the official
  relationship between Muller and Kaltenbrunner are not
  known to me. However, I noticed that on several occasions
  Muller was with Kaltenbrunner to report about the work of
  his department.
  Answer to 4(b): Kaltenbrunner was not exclusively
  occupied with Police and Security matters during his
  activity as Higher S.S. and Police Leader in Austria or
  as State Secretary for Security respectively. Without a
  doubt he had political interests besides, since the
  Higher S.S. and Police Leaders were the representatives
  of Reichsfuehrer S.S. Himmler in all matters.
  Answer to 4(c): I could note that by virtue of my
  official relationship with him, members of other
  departments also frequently expressed themselves in the
  direction that he favoured and furthered Amt III, and
  particularly Amt VI and the Mil (Military Amt).
  5. With respect to Question 7.
  Answer the following:
  (a) What did you personally have to do with concentration
  camps and what, therefore, is the basis for your answer
  to this question?
  (b) Did you know that all orders for commitments to,
  releases from, and executions in concentration camps came
  from the R.S.H.A.?
  (c) Did you know that the R.S.H.A. gave direct orders to
                                                  [Page 259]
  of concentration camps? State such orders of which you
  have personal knowledge.
  (d) What are the atrocities committed in concentration
  camps to which you refer in your answer to this question,
  and when and in what manner did you learn that atrocities
  were committed in concentration camps?
  Answer to 5(a): Personally, I had nothing at all to do
  with concentration camps. However, I liberated a number
  of persons from concentration camps, and, therefore, know
  the difficulties that were made by the concentration camp
  staffs who always called attention to orders of the
  W.V.H.A. (Wirtschaftsund Verwaltungshauptamt der S.S.) of
  the S.S. in such cases since the inmates were needed for
  the armament industry.
  Answer to 5(b): It is known to me that orders for
  commitment into concentration camps and discharges
  therefrom came from the R.S.H.A. I did not know that all
  such orders came from the R.S.H.A. I have no knowledge of
  orders for executions by the R.S.H.A.
  Answer to 5(c): I do not know any details and do not know
  personally any orders concerning this. In the cases in
  which I intervened for discharges I addressed myself
  either to Kaltenbrunner directly or to Amt IV. When the
  processing was of long duration, I received the answer
  several times from officials of Amt IV that difficulties
  had come about through the W.V.H.A. of the S.S.
  Answer to 5(d): When Hungary was occupied by German
  troops in March, 1944, several of my Hungarian
  acquaintances went to concentration camps. After I had
  achieved their liberation, they told me of bad treatment
  and atrocities in the Mauthausen concentration camp. At
  that time, I sent an official communication concerning
  this to the director of the Linz Gestapo Office, with the
  request to inquire into this matter with the
  concentration camp commandant Ziereis. Ziereis, however,
  denied this, as I was informed in the reply. In August,
  1944, Eichmann told me that there were extermination
  (Vernichtungslager) camps besides concentration camps.
  6. With respect to Question 9.
  What is the basis for your opinion that Kaltenbrunner
  opposed Hitler and Himmler on the programme for the
  physical extermination of European Jewry?
  Answer to 6: Kaltenbrunner told me after his conferences
  with representatives of the International Red Cross in
  March, 1945, that he was against Hitler's and Himmler's
  programme in the question of the extermination of the
  European Jews. In my response to question 9 that
  Kaltenbrunner had given no orders for killing of Jews,
  the words 'according to my knowledge' are missing.
  7. With respect to Question 11.
  Who was the American whom you told Kaltenbrunner that you
  had contacted in a neutral country in 1943? Did
  Kaltenbrunner agree to travel to Switzerland with you to
  meet a representative of the Allied Powers with whom you
  were in touch through the Austrian Resistance Movement;
  and, if so, whom?
  Answer to 7: The American liaison man in 1943 was a
  member of the U.S. Legation in Lisbon. I do not recall
  his name. The connection via the Austrian Resistance
  Movement with an American organisation in Switzerland
  existed only from the beginning of the autumn of 1944.
  Kaltenbrunner agreed to travel there with me about 20th
  April, 1945.
  8. With respect to Question 12.
  On what date did Kaltenbrunner order the commandant of
  Mauthausen concentration camp to hand over the camp to
  approaching troops; at whose insistence did Kaltenbrunner
  issue this order, and for what reason?
  Answer to 8: I cannot state the exact date of
  Kaltenbrunner's order to the
                                                  [Page 260]
  commandant of Mauthausen concentration camp to hand over
  the camp to the approaching troops. It should have been
  during the last days of April, 1945. It is not known to
  me at whose insistence and for what reason he gave this
  order; possibly this was connected with his discussions
  with S.S. Standartenfuehrer Becher whom I met with him at
  the time.
  The above statements are true; I made this declaration
  voluntarily and without compulsion-, etc.
  Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl."

DR. KAUFFMANN: Does the High Tribunal wish the defendant to
state his position or reply to these two documents?

THE WITNESS: I request that I may do so right away.


Q. Then please give us your views first on the Mildner
document. I shall call your attention, perhaps, to Question
No. 2 which seems relevant to me. It says:

   "Is it not true that in the year 1942 and again in 1943
   the commandant at Auschwitz, pursuant to orders of
   Gruppenfuehrer Muller, showed an extermination
   installation to you?"

It would seem from this that the Chief of Amt IV knew about
these matters.

A. Dr. Kauffmann, may I interrupt you? As far as I could
notice in the last sessions a procedure of so-called
"surprise affidavit" is being employed against me. This
"surprise affidavit" is applied for the first time in my
case. In spite of that I am glad and grateful, even without
having had the opportunity to see this affidavit, to express
my views on each point.

As to Dr. Mildner, Question No. 1: He is asked about the
positions which he held in the Security Service. He
enumerated the positions which he held from 1939 to 1944.
During the time I was in office he served as an Inspector of
the Sipo and the S.D. in Kessel; as a Deputy in Amt IV; as a
Deputy Inspector in Vienna in 1944 and as a Commander of the
Sipo in Vienna also in 1944. He said: "All of these
appointments after January, 1943, were made by Kaltenbrunner
as Chief of the Security Police and the S.D."

That is incorrect. I never appointed anybody to these high
positions such as were held by Mildner.

Were Mildner asked about this before this Tribunal, he would
have to confirm it. He was apparently not questioned on that
point by the prosecution. In case of an appointment of an
official for the Security Police and the S.D. I was asked
and notified, simply because, as an inspector of the S.D.
and of the Security Police, he had to have a strong
Intelligence Section, that is a sub-division of Amts III and
IV which were at my disposal as far as Intelligence was
concerned. Therefore, as Chief of the Intelligence Service I
had to know who was inspector of such a subdivision in
Vienna, Kassel or in Copenhagen. Later he also had to have
my Intelligence orders for his groups. That was the only
reason why I had to be notified of such appointments. It was
not my function to appoint any official of the Sipo; that is
a definite misrepresentation arising from this affidavit of
Dr. Mildner.

In reply to Question 2, if it is said that in his positions
in Chemnitz and Kattowitz, in the years 1939 and 1941, he
had to transport prisoners to Auschwitz for imprisonment and
execution, then, in the first place, this falls into the
period before I had assumed office, and, secondly, this was
purely an executive measure of those agencies of which I was
never in charge and never took over. He, therefore, can
never have acted there as my deputy. Further, he was asked
whether it was not true that:

  "the Gestapo-S. S. - Standgericht (court-martial) often
  met in Auschwitz" and "that he sometimes attended the
  trial of prisoners," in other words that he attended the
  executions. "That in the year 1942, and again in 1943,

                                                  [Page 261]

   commandant of Auschwitz, on orders of Muller, showed him
   - that is Mildner - extermination installations; that he
   was acquainted with the extermination installations at
   Auschwitz since he had to send Jews from your territory
   to Auschwitz for execution."

In my opinion, I could perhaps be incriminated on one point.
The question was this: "Did Muller once, in the year 1943,
see such installations or did he attend the shootings?"
First of all, the prosecution did not show whether this
"once" took place before or after I assumed office.

Q. Will you please be a little briefer and more to the

A. Excuse me, Doctor, but I have to be able to refute every
single word.

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Kauffmann, we do not want the witness to
argue upon this document. If he has anything to say about
the facts, then he can do it, but not argue on it.

DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes, that is my opinion, also.


Q. I am asking you: An especially important and
incriminating point, it seems to me, is Question No. 3.
Explain if you will; I read:

  "Did all orders for arrest, commitment to punishment and
  individual executions come from the R.S;H.A.?"; and then:
  "Was the regular channel for orders of individual
  executions from Himmler through Kaltenbrunner to Muller,
  and then to the concentration camp commandant?" And then
  the answer: "Yes."

Please answer briefly.

A. I have already explained today that the authority and
power to order executions rested only with the Minister of
Justice and with Himmler. Nobody else in the entire Reich
had the possibility or the authority to order them. Further,
despite the official channels - Himmler, Kaltenbrunner,
Muller - such an order from Himmler was never forwarded to
me; these orders must have gone from Himmler direct to
Muller. To put this question to Muller is wrong, for the
simple reason that Muller was not with me and cannot know
whether I ever received such an order from Himmler. It is
only a conclusion which he draws from the normal
organisational set-up.

Q. That is a matter for the defence later on; you needn't
talk about that.

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