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Reply-To: "Chris Tucker" 
From: "Chris Tucker" 
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Subject: Re: Jew vs Zionism also known as Khazar
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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:15:26 -0700
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Asif  cut and pasted a bunch of total fiction in message

However, as Asif well knows, the truth about the Khazars can be found at

Did Modern Jews Descend from the Khazers?


Many anti-Semites complain that modern Jews are not the Biblical Jews but
are descended from the Khazars. The Khazars converted to Judaism and thus
modern day Jews, it is claimed, are imposters who have no claim on the Land
of Israel, Eretz Yisrael. This claim will be discussed in the following

It is also interesting to note that the same anti-Semites who complain about
the alleged contents of the Talmud, which was completed no later than 500
C.E. also claim that the Jews of today are "self-styled Jews" descended from
the Khazars who converted to Judaism in 740 C.E. Some even claim that the
"true" descendants of the Biblical Jews are the modern day "Aryans". So
according to this "logic" the Talmud which they complain about would
actually be an "Aryan" book and not that of the modern Jews! Its difficult
to see how they can reconcile these two seemingly contradictory positions.

David S. Maddison(


As for Ashkenazim being Khazars, for one thing there were Jews on the Rhine
(who came with the Romans) long before there was a Khazaria and even before
many Germanic tribes settled there. In fact, the word Ashkenaz means Germany
in Hebrew. Second, even if a group of Khazars abandoned their own homeland
and adopted Jewish peoplehood by conversion it still doesn't negate their
right to the land of Israel. Even Moses's wives weren't born Hebrews and
Ruth the Moabitess was a convert (see Book of Ruth). Unlike the Germans,
membership in the Jewish peoplehood is not based soley on blood.



The following article addresses the issues of the Khazars with reference to
a particular anti-Semitic film where the same claim is made. From "The Other
Israel - Is it Really Accurate", 1990 Dennis Green, Stuart Hayward, Phillip
Woodfield Opposition to Anti-Semitism, Incorporated, Christchurch, New

In the film, Ted Pike makes the assertion (as have most anti-Semitic groups,
including the Nazis) that the Jews of European origin, the "Askhenazim" (who
comprise almost 80% of today's Jewry), are actually descended from a
medieval people called the Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the 8th
century. The logic of the argument goes something like this; if 80% of all
the Jews in tile world are not really Jews, then, firstly, these Jews have
absolutely no claim, biblical or otherwise, to the Land of Israel. Secondly,
these Jews are in no way the people of God, and thus, have no place in the
promises or plans of God. Thirdly, if the vast majority of present-day Jews
are not Jews (therefore, not Semitic) at all, then it cannot be considered
"anti-Semitic" to oppose them.

Pike states that 'Today, the Askhenazim, or Khazars, form the majority,
Around 80 %, of those who call themselves Jews." He claims that the Mongols
drove the Khazar-jews into Germany, Poland and Russia in the 13th century,
and that these, not "real" Jews, are the people who now make up most of the
population of Israel. Quite simply, this is not true, as the basic analysis
below will show.

The Khazars were a confederation of Turkish tribes who established a major
commercial empire in the second half of the 6th century. As a trading
nation, they were faced with a dilemma; tile Christians would not trade
freely with Muslim nations, and the Muslim nations would not trade freely
with the Christian nations. The Khazars did not want to be recognized as
being more partial to one faith than the other. Therefore, around 740 C.E.,
King Bulan adopted Judaism, and thus, as a "neutral" people, the Khazars
could trade more freely with both the Christian and Muslim nations that
bordered Khazaria. It should be noted, however, that it was only the "ruling
class" that adopted Judaism, not the general Khazar population, as Ted Pike
and the other anti-Semites claim (1). These Khazar-Jews had little, if any,
contact with the central Jewish organisation in Iraq, or with the Jews who
still lived in Palestine (as the Romans had renamed the province of Judea in
135 C.E.). These Khazar-jews had, in fact, closer links with the (Christian)
Byzantine Empire, as can been seen by the fact that several Byzantine
emperors, including Justinian II (704) and Constantine V (732), had
Khazarian wives.

By the 10th century the Khazar empire, faced with the growing strength of
the Pechenegs to their north and west, and of the Russians around Kiev,
suffered a decline. Khazar power was crushed in 965 when the ruler of Kiev,
Svyatoslav, launched a harsh military campaign against them. Many Khazars,
including some of those who had converted to Judaism, moved into Bohemia,
Russia, Germany, and the Ukraine.

The main error with Pike's argument is his belief that the Khazar-jews are
the ancestors of all those Jews who have lived in Northern or Eastern
Europe, and therefore, the Askhenazim (Jews of European origin) are not
really Jews at all. This argument can be demolished very simply, by showing
that there were very large Jewish communities in Northern and Eastern Europe
before the Khazar-Jews arrived there, and that these (with perhaps a tiny
percentage of Khazar-jews) are the ancestors of the Askhenazim. Thus, these
Jews are clearly descended from the Jews of the Bible.

The first Jews to reach Germany were merchants who went there in the wake of
the Roman legions, and settled in the Roman-founded Rhine towns. The
earliest detailed record of a Jewish community in Germany, referring to
Cologne, is found in imperial decrees issued in 321 and 331 C.E. (2)

There were Jews in Russia from the first centuries C.E., although numbers
there were small for several centuries. However, Jews emigrated to the
Caucasus and beyond, and formed countless communities, at the time of the
wars between the Muslims and Persians during the 7th century.(3)

Jews arrived in Pannonia (Yugoslavia) and Romania in the Third Century(4),
and in Hungary not long after. France also had large numbers of Jews living
there from an early period; Objects identified as Jewish because of the
menorah portrayed on them have been discovered around Arles (first, fourth
and early fifth centuries) and Bordeaux and the neighboring region (third
and early fourth centuries) Evidence of Jewish communities is abundant from
465 onwards.

Jews were, of course, living in all Mediterranean countries for many
centuries B.C.E. and, as has been shown, were living in most other European
lands from a very early period. Thus, the claim of Ted Pike (and most other
anti-Semitic groups) that the European Jews are from Khazar stock, falls
flat on its face. There may be a tiny minority of present-day Jews who are
descended from Khazar-Jews, but almost all European Jews are descended
directly from the Jews of the Bible.

(1) Encyclopaedia Judaica, Vol. 10, col. 944
(2) Encyclopaedia Judaica, Vol. 7, col. 458
(3) Encyclopaedia Judaica, Vol. 14, col. 433
(4) Encyclopaedia Judaica, Vol. 16, col. 868



This is also an exract of an article that addresses the lies presented in
the anti-Semitic video "The Other Israel". David S. Maddison

The video alleges that the Ashkenazim are Khazars and only the Sephardim are
authentic Jews. In other words, that the majority of Jews in thhe world
today are descended from a heathen, nomad people from central Asia, and not
from Abraham.

In support of this contention it states that Jewish missionaries went to
Khazaria and as a result the king was converted in A.D. 740 and Rabbinic
Judaism became the state religion. It is averred that by the 10th century
the Khazari people had convinced themselves that they were descended from
Abraham, that they settled in Poland, and that they were the Polish Jews
from whom the Ashkenazim, who make up the greater part of Jewry today, were
descended. There is enough truth in this assertion to make it seem plausible
but unfortunately it flies against the facts.

The Jews who went to Khazaria did not go as missionaries, in the sense that
we send out miissionaries today. When the Moslems overan Babylon, the Jews
were either expelled or freed to pay half their produce as tribute (13), and
when Leo became the Byzantine Emperor one of the measures he passed was for
the compulsory conversion of all Jews to Christianity. As a result of these
persecutions many Jews from Persia and Greece went to Khazaria to live.(2,3)

In about A.D.700 the Khazar king was converted to Islam and later to
Judaism. A later king, Obadiah, greatly strengthened Judaism, inviting
rabbis into his Kingdom and building synagogues. Their Judaism - limited no
doubt in any case to a comparitively small group (only the king, his
attendants and the Khazars of his kind) - was always superficial and they
were liable to relapse into paganism. They became what could best be called
Judaized Turks. Religious toleration was maintained for the Kingdom's 300
years, with clear traces of Christianity being found among them for the
whole historical period. The predominating element in the country were the
Muslims, and they formed the royal army(3). In the 10th century, "probably
in 965, Khazar leaders appealed to a neighbouring Islamic state for help
against invasion but were told that the price of assistance was Khazaria's
conversion to Islam. According to Muslim historians the kingdom that had
embraced Judaism around 740 suddenly abandoned it less than two and a half
centuries later. But this did not save them and by the end of the eleventh
century the Khazar empire was no more."(1) There are persistent references
to the Khazars as Muslims after A.D. 965(3).

To encourage their own people, Jewish writers have tended to exaggerate the
importance of the Khazar conversions to Judaism, leaving out unpalatable
facts. The smallest group among the Khazars were the Jews, most of them
being Muslims and Christians. The king and his court were Jews for much of
their 300 years history and because religious toleration was maintained many
persecuted Jews fled there. The fact is that rather than convince themselves
by the 10th century that they were Jews descended from Abraham, they found
it expedient to convert to Islam.

On the linguistic side, well known Turcologist, A.N.Poliak, regards the
Karaite Jews in Poland and the Crimea as the principal present-day
representatives of the ancient Khazars, (Karaitism is a minor sect of
Judaism quite distinct from mainstream Judaisni) and 'investigations have
tended to establish the absence of western influences in Yiddish, though on
the other hand affinities with German dialects of the east and south-east
have been indicated.'(3)

This is not to say that the occasional occurrence of a fair, light skinned,
eastern European Jew doesn't indicate the possibility of some admixture of
Khazar blood. However from the thirteenth century there came a great
movement across the face of Europe, which was to continue for the next four
centuries, to the hospitable lands of Poland and Lithuania.(5)' 'For long
generations, therefore, Poland continued to appear in the light of a land of
promise for the Jews of northern Europe, and to receive a perpetual
accession of new settlers - refugees escaping from massacre, young men
seeking opportunity, merchants from as far afield as Italy or the Balkans.
In 1500, the number of Jews in the country is estimated to have been only
50,000 souls; a century and a half later, it had risen to half a million. from the beginning of the sixteenth century the overwhelming mass if
Askenazic Jewry, the remants of the communities of medieval england and
France and Germanym with others from further afield - became concentrated in
Poland abd the surrounding Slavonic territories. It is from them that the
majority of the Jews in the world today are descended." (4).


(1) Abba Eban, (1984). Heritage, Civilisation and the Jews
(2) Martin Gilbert, (1969). Jewish History Atlas
(3) D.M. Dunlop, (1987). The History of the Jewish Khazars
(4) Cecil Roth, (1970). A History of the Jews
(5) Chaim Bermant, (1977). The Jews
(13) David J. Goldberg and John D. Rayner, (1987). The Jewish People,Their
History and Their Religion.



Apart from the historical evidence proving that a vast majority of
present-day Jews did not descend from the Khazars, there is now also genetic
evidence. Among the Jews there is the class of priests called Cohanim who
served in the Temple and who now carry surnames such as "Cohen" and many
variations on that name. Cohanim comprise of about 5% of the male Jewish
population. There are strict rules of marriage for the Cohanim and the title
is only passed through the male line. Also, converts cannot become Cohanim
(but their children will be if they have a Cohen as a father). The priestly
line is descended directly from the Aaron of the bible so it is expected
that all Cohanim would carry some common genetic features.

In recently published work (1) it was found that 54% of self-identified
Cohanim had common genetic features that were revealed by analysis of their
DNA. Specifically, a component of the Y-chromosone, an allele YAP+ DYS19,
was identified that showed up only 1.5% of the time in Cohanim but 18.4% of
the time in a random selection of non-Cohanim Jews and there were other
genetic differences apparent as well. (The same differences were apparent
for both Sepphardic and Askhenazic Jews also proving a common origin
pre-dating a later split between the two groups.)

The large number of Cohanim among present-day Jews and the fact that they
have a common genetic lineage traceable to Israel at the time of the Temple,
demonstrates that modern Jews come from a population pool derived from
Israel and not from the Khazars. The Khazars could not have developed their
own lineage of Cohanim anyway, since being a Cohen is a male-inherited
status which converts (the Khazars) could not have obtained.

(1) Skorecki K; Selig S; Blazer S; Bradman R; Bradman N; Waburton PJ;
Ismajlowicz M; Hammer MF (1997) Y chromosomes of Jewish priests. Nature,

David S. Maddison(

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